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OfflinePTreeDish
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Do you go to therapy?
    #26512618 - 03/02/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I work in the field of mental health and am curious to hear from this community what their experiences are, if any, from seeing a professional therapist.

Have you or do you go to a therapist? What philosophy (trauma, ERD, CBT, etc) does your therapist employ? How did you find your therapist? What does it cost you?

I should say that I am a huge advocate of folks seeing a mental health professional, but the field is still rife with issues that end up hurting a lot of people. Some of what I do for a living is involved in helping folks find the right kind of help to avoid these kinds of issues. Would be great to hear your thoughts.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/03/20 01:53 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish] * 1
    #26512833 - 03/02/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

rife with issues;
daughter is therapist
have seen couples counsellor years ago
we did talk therapy and home exercises such as looking in eachothers' eyes.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26513356 - 03/02/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry you've had so many issues - def. isn't uncommon. I hope you and your family are in a better place overall now.  :hug:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish] * 1
    #26513410 - 03/02/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I've been in talk therapy for 3 years now.
It's impossible to do without allowing yourself to be vulnerable in front of someone. That was the hardest part but it was also very simple. Nobody knows why talk therapy works but somehow it does.. not everyone needs it. I needed it because I've been traumatized over and over again and I've struggled greatly with guilt/shame and other complexes. Even after 3 years, there are still things to re-explore and maybe frame in a different way or just come to terms with what happened.

Being vulnerable with a therapist has helped me be vulnerable with other people. Not everyone, mind you, but people who are close to me. I used to just shut down, dissociate and turn to drugs and booze. I've realized, if I can talk about it, and share it, I don't have to carry the burden myself.

But for sure shop around if you don't trust or like your therapist. If you don't feel like you're being really listened to and listened to non-judgmentally then find a better one. It's expensive too... I was lucky to find someone who didn't cost much ($50 a session). Usually in my city a therapist will cost anywhere from 100 to 175 a session.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 2
    #26513500 - 03/02/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you for being vulnerable here to us internet strangers and sharing a part of your own deeply personal journey.

There is a lot of evidence as to why talk therapy works and this is central to my field of study: Interpersonal Neurobiology. We look at the biological basis for how the brain heals itself and how we can take all of the science from physics, philosophy, chemistry, etc and apply them towards a unified model of understanding the brain. Our interpersonal relationships (connections/experiences with others) are foundational to creating our subjective sense of well-being.

A healthy attachment with another, often a trained therapist, is powerful tool for personal growth and development - especially for those of us who didn't have parents to model healthy relationships and establish healthy emotional regulatory controls in our early brains. I could talk about why and how way more than folks are probably interested.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you are taking care of yourself and cultivating some positive relationships in your life! You are most certainly not alone on your journey my friend.


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OfflineMr. D Green
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26513528 - 03/02/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The best therapist is thy self, the biggest issue with therapy these days is the therapist...no one knows you better then you; no one can better I then I..


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: Mr. D Green]
    #26513534 - 03/02/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

A therapists goal shouldn't be to tell you more about yourself. Rather, a good therapist will serve, among other things, as an objective guide that helps you reveal more about yourself that wouldn't be possible from your subjective internal world.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/02/20 08:03 PM)


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OfflineMr. D Green
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26513557 - 03/02/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
A therapists goal shouldn't be to tell you more about yourself. Rather, a good therapist will serve, among other things, as an objective guide that helps you reveal more about yourself that wouldn't be possible from your subjective internal world.




For starters, your subconscious is the guide that helps you reveal more about yourself...one example..dreams..

Lastly; your subjective internal world?? You act as if it is impossible to view different perspectives other then your own..
I mean sure, there are people out there that walk around with their heads shoved up their own ass, but even them; eventually figure things out..the hard way. Which is what they deserve..


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: Mr. D Green] * 1
    #26513558 - 03/02/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. D Green said:
The best therapist is thy self, the biggest issue with therapy these days is the therapist...no one knows you better then you; no one can better I then I..





No one is worse at analyzing oneself than oneself.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineMr. D Green
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26513595 - 03/02/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Does the word incompetent mean anything to you? You watch the tv and the tv says you can do many things..things like ride a bike or even become a computer programmer...but tv no say you can help your self..tv say you must go to place and have another human tell you what is good and bad for you, let alone how to do basic actions; such as thinking for yourself...


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: Mr. D Green]
    #26513613 - 03/02/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think therapy is the solution for everyone or an escape from thinking for yourself. If anything, better understanding yourself helps you think more clearly.

But the way you talk about it, I'm wondering if you don't just distrust other people in general with your feelings? If that's how you feel, I wonder what your life experiences must have been to create these feelings. I have nothing but empathy and kindness for you because if what I just said rings true, I can only imagine how difficult life must have been for you and how alone you must have been the whole time.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26513691 - 03/02/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
I work in the field of mental health and ...

I should say that I am a huge advocate of folks seeing a mental health professional, but the field is still ripe with issues that end up hurting a lot of people. Some of what I do for a living is involved in helping folks find the right kind of help to avoid these kinds of issues. Would be great to hear your thoughts.




Have your heard of "Childhood Emotional Neglect" and do you have an opinion on this diagnosis and treatment?

info is here:  https://drjonicewebb.com/?awt_a=B68A&awt_l=6tMb4&awt_m=3dlkfaOQUnG838A

.  And yes, long ago, in the past, I have worked with therapies using the connected breath.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26513772 - 03/02/20 11:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't have any direct experience with this Dr or her approach, but I can offer an opinion for whatever that's worth based on what I'm seeing from the website.

It's certainly a much different paradigm than what is taught in my field of research, Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB). This Dr. has done an excellent job of creating a marketable label for a spectrum of trauma-related behaviors and has done a fine job at monetizing its solution - even recruiting other therapists to the cause.

Maybe her program works, maybe it doesn't. It's not the perspective or approach IPNB-informed therapy takes; though, there is certainly some overlap in the subject matter. Then again, IPNB is a peer-reviewed scientific framework for understanding how the brain works and it doesn't prescribe nice packaged solutions to sell to the client. It recognizes that trauma is always formed in the context of a relationship(s) and so is the process of healing (since we cannot heal trauma in isolation).

I'm skeptical of therapists who's websites, in my subjective opinion, are more focused on selling products/services than actually connecting with and helping those in need. But I am definitely biased and I am not a doctor.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/02/20 11:43 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish] * 1
    #26513796 - 03/02/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
....

It's certainly a much different paradigm than what is taught in my field of research, Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB). ..... IPNB-informed therapy takes; though, there is certainly some overlap in the subject matter. Then again, IPNB is a peer-reviewed scientific framework for understanding how the brain works ....

I'm skeptical of therapists who's websites, in my subjective opinion, are more focused on selling products/services than actually connecting with and helping those in need. But I am definitely biased and I am not a doctor.




"I'm skeptical of therapists who's websites, in my subjective opinion, are more focused on selling products/services than actually connecting ..." my thoughts too - thats why I asked.
Certainly describes, something many can relate to, though.

As regards :  "IPNB-informed therapy" perhaps you would tell me something about it, or suggest a decent internet link. "peer-reviewed scientific" sounds interesting.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26513818 - 03/03/20 12:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I thought about maybe making a separate post introducing folks to IPNB, but I want to proceed cautiously so as not to become the very thing I find to be dangerous or ill-advised.

IPNB is indeed a theory and model for understanding the mind, brain and relationships created by three folks, including Dr. Dan Siegel - a clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA School of Medicine and executive director of the Mindsight Institute.

It has many applications in understanding and treating mental health issues. Because it provides a framework for understanding the underlying mechanisms behind emotional resilience, healing and the role of relationships in the brain, it's application are wide-spread, extending to classrooms, the workplace (my specialty) and beyond.

If we know what a healthy subjectively happy brain looks like physiologically and we know what psychological processes can be employed to move the brain towards those physical states, then that means we can change ourselves and that's not just powerful, it's hopeful. Much of what IPNB teaches, we sort of all feel is obvious and what we all kind of already intrinsically know - the framework just does a good job at providing a language for talking about these ideas and then backing them up with real science. As a skeptic, I am reassured by the fact that IPNB self-admits it is limited and prone to change as our understanding of the mind, brain, consciousness and all other related science continue to evolve.

There is a book series called Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology. In this series, I recommend the book "Being a brain-wise therapist: A Practical Guide to Interpersonal Neurobiology" for those who have a stronger than average intellectual curiosity in the subject matter.

It's quite approachable and takes you first though the parts of the brain, what they do, what we know, what we don't. It then moves into what we know about well-being and the differences in brains between healthy/not-healthy brains and then what we can do to change.

There's even a study that suggests the mere act of thinking about how the brain works can improve those who suffer greatly in their internal world. The theory is that many folks who have mental health issues often feel "broken" or "beyond repair" but when they learn about the science of the brain, how it "breaks" and what biological processes are involved in recovery, it can create new hope and open a new connection towards their own healing journey.

I'll try and find the study and link to it when I get a chance.

I just want to reiterate though that true emotional healing and well-being doesn't come from intellectual pursuits alone. No amount of learning or reading up on a topic will heal your wounds; for that, you need to have a healthy attachment and an unfolding set of experiences with a trusted and empathetic other.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/03/20 02:00 AM)


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26513862 - 03/03/20 01:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the info.

what do you think of alternative therapies like color therapy, movement-focused therapy, vision therapy?

what does the IPNB model say about these things?

as a child diagnosed as OCD and having selective mutism, i never responded well to traditional therapies. it was easier for me to notice how my brain felt different, and i responded, as someone put different colored scarves over me - than to be verbal.

what are some physiological characteristics of a healthy subjectively happy brain?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26513978 - 03/03/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

does IPNB need to differentiate itself from other psychotherapy?
I have enjoyed the basic symbols and concrete approaches in Gestalt therapy since reading of Fritz Perls in the 60's.

it goes well with buddhism: contact, feelings, mind-forms
and with stream of consciousness,


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26514582 - 03/03/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

IPNB isn't a form of psychotherapy itself. Rather, it's a framework for understanding and informing the underlying mechanisms for how the brain/mind works, its development, how it repairs itself, how experiences in our relationships shape the brain and describing the biological basis for subjective well-being.

In your case, you might accompany your current knowledge with IPNB and it might offer a perspective as to why and/or how various therapeutic approaches work or don't.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26514625 - 03/03/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't have a lot of personal experiences with those forms of therapy and IPNB isn't designed to tell people which therapies work or don't. It seeks to educate people about the science of well-being and brain function so that folks can find the right therapy that best suits their needs and is supported by what we know about how trauma is formed and healed.

Quote:

as a child diagnosed as OCD and having selective mutism, i never responded well to traditional therapies. it was easier for me to notice how my brain felt different, and i responded, as someone put different colored scarves over me - than to be verbal.




Whew! What a burden to live with for so long. I hope you've been able to find a way to manage and haven't given up on improving how you feel. I feel for you and am with you in spirit on your healing journey.

IPNB asserts that many conditions like anxiety, OCD, etc are symptoms of a disintegrated brain in which certain portions of the brain are overactive and disconnected from other parts of the self.

One study demonstrated this using fMRI which shows concentrations of blood flow in the brain. For the group that self-reported a high degree of subjective well-being, their fMRI scans showed a more even distribution of blood flow throughout the entire brain.

When the same fMRI was administered to folks who were battling with some form of mental illness, such as anxiety, depression, etc. - the fMRI showed a statistically significant concentration of blood flow in one area of the brain - most often, it was the prefrontal cortex which we know is largely responsible for anticipating what might happen in the future.

The science seems to suggest that the brain favors a high degree of complex interconnectedness with itself (via neural networks) and that trauma and/or experiences, in lock step with genetics, appear to disintegrate these connections. The principle symptom of a disintegrated brain is rigidity, chaos or some combination of the two within a persons internal world and/or thought processes.

Folks who report a high degree of subjective well-being appear to be more interconnected with all of the facets of themselves and have developed the ability to more easily flow between those parts. When I say parts, I mean that we all have facets to ourselves (our artistic/creative self vs. our work self. vs. our caretaker self. vs our musician self. vs. our engineer self. vs our intellectual self. etc). And these parts of your self live in different physical locations within the neurological system.

Folks who have a high degree of subjective well-being also correlate with a high degree of emotional resilience, able to be with a variety of people in a variety of situations without being so emotionally triggered that they shut down and revert back to their internal world.

What I like about this framework is that it doesn't aim to define what happiness or well-being means for anyone beyond what biological commonalities are observed. We all know that happiness is a subjective feeling and what might be good for one person isn't necessarily what makes another person happy.

IPNB uses peer-reviewed academic studies to develop a model of the brain which suggest:
* The brain favors a high degree of interconnectedness with itself, desiring many complex neural connections to as many possible pathways.
* Well-being is highly correlated with the ability to more evenly distribute energy and blood flow throughout the brain and that issues affecting well-being arise when one or more parts of the brain become overactive and/or disconnected from other parts of the self. (as evident via fMRI scans of the brain)
* Mindfulness is an excellent tool for training the brain to increase interconnectedness within the self
* The brain is wired for interpersonal connections (duh - we all know we're social creatures) but there are physical characteristics in the brain, such as mirror neurons, which facilitate healing and growth and connectedness through empathetic and trusted relationships with another.

With this framework in mind, suddenly it makes sense why so many people turn to drugs because the chemicals can sort of calm down the overactive disintegrated parts of the brain that cause folks to suffer so much.

Where therapy comes into play is that by forming a trusting and empathetic relationship with the therapist, you can begin to explore, identify and connect with the experiences you had that might have first caused your mental health issues. By invoking those early neural pathways, you can begin to create new connections and associations with those early networks that are causing your issues. The deeper and more trusting your connection is with the therapist, the more profound the associations of empathy, healing, love and kindness are created alongside the old trauma. This is also exactly why I tell people that therapy is a process and you can't time-box it because it requires you develop a real attachment to one another (yes, the therapist also must be healthily attached to the patient for this to work) and that's not something you can control - just like you can't force someone you are dating to fall in love with you. It happens when it happens.

For many folks, it takes years to develop enough trust in their therapist that their psyche finally allows them to access formally very hidden and painful feelings that have shaped their brains.

Anyway, I hope this helps! Hugs for you all.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/03/20 01:47 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you go to therapy? [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26515410 - 03/03/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

-  I was forced to see a psychologist a dozen times at age 13 but I never spoke to the man. My father was the source of my problem which became evident when he was asked to participate (1966).
-  My academic advisor died my first year of grad school. He was replaced by a man who had just returned from Zurich where he became a Jungian analyst - the only one in Maryland at the time (1983). We had informal analysis and I was his research assistant administering and hand-scoring 1000 MBTIs and he advised me writing a Jungian-oriented doctoral dissertation.
-  The second year of marriage my ex-wife we saw a "Christian psychiatrist" for marriage counseling (1983). (P.S., she is Borderline Personality Disordered and now in her last days of Alcoholic Dementia & malnutrition).
-  I began Jungian analysis in Miami and took extra clients from him to offset my fee (he took kickbacks). Then he died and I began with yet another Jungian, a female analyst until I was interviewed by the (former) Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts. Every applicant from Miami interviewed in Memphis were rejected including me (1990). I ended with 8.5 years of Jungian analysis.
-  After my divorce I went into group counseling for half a year (1992). This was the last therapy I participated in as a recipient.

I have been licensed in Florida to practice psychotherapy since 1985. I received my first hypnotherapy training in 1989, which I have been conducting on a part-time basis up to the present (5-Path™ method).


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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