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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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10 years
#26512339 - 03/02/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I haven't been on the site or grown anything since 10 years ago. Reading up on what's going on and to my understanding polyfill is no longer needed in monotubs? And you can spawn bulk and go straight to fruiting conditions no more waiting for full colonization of bulk? Correct me if I'm wrong this all seems amazingly crazy to me lol anything else awesome I missed out on?
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PiptheGreAtest
Aspiring Heavyweight


Registered: 07/18/16
Posts: 464
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Ya I hadn’t been on the site for 4+ years when came back that how things were being done I’ve been on the site 1+ months reading through forum them are the main changes I’ve seen. Do you have any plans what your first tek going look like? I jump straight into agar and spawn bags so I don’t have to sit around waiting for lagging jars, 6 monos for my first one in 4 years figure what the heck. Pain in ass buying all supplies when you once had everything you need. I swear this time it will go into a storage shed, not the neighbor who is mildly interested.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Not really sure yet thankfully I found most of my equipment when cleaning storage and that kinda sparked my interest again. My friend helping me clean says ((why do you have 3 huge pressure cookers)) lmao! I'm sure my spores are no good anymore and my masters have all been thrown away long ago. So I'll be starting fresh again
-------------------- Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Any experienced info on not letting the bulk fully colonize before introducing to fruiting conditions tho? Just seems strange to me to spawn bulk and go straight to fruiting. but again it's been 10 years.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Fruiting conditions from spawning is a part of ohmatics monotub Tek from about 15 years ago.
Here's a more recent thread with a bunch of people doing comparisons.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22315950
Please pm me if you need a print, I'll be happy to send a couple.
I've moved away from poly and gone to micropore tape, more clean look, easier. 2 layers on bottom and one on top with a casing layer and all that's left to do is wait to harvest.
Welcome back
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
Edited by filthyknees (03/02/20 08:23 AM)
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SynKyd
ctrl-alt-delite



Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 1,554
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Yes a lot has changed I had the same reaction but going to try it and see what happens anyway. I think a lot of the new teks presume you know what you’re doing and can produce pristine spawn jars. Fail faster as they say.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Excellent info 👌 exactly what I was looking for. Back then I always kept co2 high as possible during colonization and no FAE to not pin before sub was fully colonized. I do remember one of monos did get some FAE on accident back in the day before full colonization and it did really well. I just assumed I got lucky with that one lol thanks again.
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Yes to fruiting from spawn. Yes to MP tape > polyfil. Yes to colonizing spawn in regular light cycle.
No to pasteurizing coir/verm. No to fanning. No to SHIPs, aside from LCs.
Also, dunking can be replaced by heavy misting. And, unless you stack, there’s no need to modify tubs at all (no holes). I know I’m forgetting a few...
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Quote:
feldman114 said: Yes to fruiting from spawn. Yes to MP tape > polyfil. Yes to colonizing spawn in regular light cycle.
No to pasteurizing coir/verm. No to fanning. No to SHIPs, aside from LCs.
Also, dunking can be replaced by heavy misting. And, unless you stack, there’s no need to modify tubs at all (no holes). I know I’m forgetting a few...
No pasteurizing coir/verm? Ive always used a mix of core/verm/gypsum/goat or llama poo for my bulk sub I assume I'd have to pasteurize this hince the poo. PS what is SHIPs aside from liquid culture? Unfamiliar with this term.
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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Loc: Bravos
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Self healing injection port. It’s the blob of silicone that most of us inoculated through 5ish years ago. Turns out it’s safer to lift the lid.
Poo needs pasteurization, but cubes don’t need poo. They don’t even use up all the nutes in the grain spawn. Coir/verm/gypsum can be hydrated with tap water OR sterilized instead of pasteurization....I know, crazy shit, right?
Came back after a long break too recently so I know that feel, man.
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Mr.Wizard
Harbinger of Hallucination



Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
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A lot of folk will just use coconut coir as substrate now.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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So much time wasted back then wow and I just spent last night making about 50 SHIPs lmao sumbitch!!! Thanks for all the new info guys. Times definitely changed the game. loving it!!!
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
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Haha yeah. Thankfully all the changes just make things simpler.
P.S. Another heads up, “MS to grain” is like taboo around here. I’m surprised no one stopped by to give you the agar lecture yet... Not that I disagree with using agar helped me a ton.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Quote:
feldman114 said: Haha yeah. Thankfully all the changes just make things simpler.
P.S. Another heads up, “MS to grain” is like taboo around here. I’m surprised no one stopped by to give you the agar lecture yet... Not that I disagree with using agar helped me a ton.
When I quit growing I was getting into agar for single isolation and making master culture slants for long term keep of exceptional fruiters. Is that still a thing or been modified at all?
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Yep, agar is king now, and for good reason.
Most bulk growers go: MS>agar>master>g2g>spawn then choose a good clone and clone>agar>3+transfers>master>g2g...
LI is making a big comeback though. If you wanna look into it I recomend this tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22680218
There are better teks, but this one doesn’t require a modified blender.
P.S. Don’t tell anyone, but I still go MS>grain first, just to get a clone going ASAP
Edited by feldman114 (03/02/20 12:00 PM)
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alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
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Quote:
feldman114 said:
No to pasteurizing coir/verm.
I'd still pasteurize coir...
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Nice!! I was thinking Ms>grain>minimonos>clone>agar/ transfer>master>g2g
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Quote:
alaskappalachian said:
Quote:
feldman114 said:
No to pasteurizing coir/verm.
I'd still pasteurize coir...
I've always pasteurized. And most likely will anyway just out of habit lol
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
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Quote:
alaskappalachian said:
Quote:
feldman114 said:
No to pasteurizing coir/verm.
I'd still pasteurize coir...
You’d still be wasting time
They say sterilized coir is best because cube myc likes cooked coir better, but it works either way. I like sterilizing 21 qts of it every weekend just so I can spawn in under 10min, any time I feel like it. If anything, it can hold a bit more water compared to coir hydrated with tap water. Both work just fine though.
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CocaineBuffet
Stranger



Registered: 08/29/19
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You don't need to be foil on your jars when you PC them. Agar is just mixed and straight into PC, no microwave/cooking necessary.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Quote:
feldman114 said:
Quote:
alaskappalachian said:
Quote:
feldman114 said:
No to pasteurizing coir/verm.
I'd still pasteurize coir...
You’d still be wasting time
They say sterilized coir is best because cube myc likes cooked coir better, but it works either way. I like sterilizing 21 qts of it every weekend just so I can spawn in under 10min, any time I feel like it. If anything, it can hold a bit more water compared to coir hydrated with tap water. Both work just fine though.
Ok my thoughts 10 years ago...Pasteurizing bulk kills bad bacteria and keeps the good. Sterilization would be to much and anything that landed on it could take hold quicker. And I'm def interested in learning any new facts about it.
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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Those are still the rules for bulk subs. But coir is THE exception.
Turns out it’s inherently resistant to contams. To be exact, spores can’t germinate on coir, so it’s resistant to contam spores I guess. Point is, you can piss into pet-store coir and keep it in your bathroom for a month and it’ll be mold-free. Makes sense, since it’s used as reptile bedding...
The reason for this is the way they treat pet-store coir at the factory. It’s salty AF (go ahead, lick some )
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alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
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No. Sterilizing coir is wasting time. Not all coir is created equally or treated equally. I use 11lb bloks of Viagrow from Home Depot and it needs to be pasteurized. Plenty of people just hydrate it. Doesn't make it the best/safest option. I agree with your other points.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Also wouldn't using poo give them more nutrients/minerals/micronutrients/good bacteria that fungus loves!? By my experience I've always thought they had a higher potency that way than just coir. If coir can't grow spores there's not much food in it for the fungus granted the fungus is 90% water but seems like coir itself isn't nutritional
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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I said “pet-store” coir multiple times Plus I just explained how sterilizing it saves me time in the long run.
Dunno what your deal is dude. I’m not the one who thought of this lol I’m just relaying info that has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere.
I even made a half-ass attempt at growing using coir only (no spawn). Check it out, lots of good coir info from TCs in there. You’ll also see how I found out the stuff I’m preaching here... https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26494829
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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Quote:
hunter s thompson said: Also wouldn't using poo give them more nutrients/minerals/micronutrients/good bacteria that fungus loves!? By my experience I've always thought they had a higher potency that way than just coir. If coir can't grow spores there's not much food in it for the fungus granted the fungus is 90% water but seems like coir itself isn't nutritional
Spent subs are very nutritious. Cube myc doesn’t get a chance to “digest” all the nutes in the grain spawn, so adding more nutes to the sub is redundant, at least for that purpose. Some people still swear by poo, but it’s definitely not necessary for monster yields.
You know how “salting” a patch of mold can slow it down enough for a flush to finish? Well, when you get home, grab a brick of your PET-STORE coir and give it a lick. Dat shit salty AF.
Edit: ima stop derailing this thread now, I promise
Edited by feldman114 (03/02/20 02:01 PM)
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Not to bust balls but how much of this is first hand knowledge Feldman?
I will say that imo sterlized subs colonize faster than semi pasteurized.
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
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If you’re asking whether I tried preparing coir all 3 ways, the answer is yes. It all works, really.
The only other info I poasted here came from a TC (or 4). Most of it from the thread I linked. I have also PERSONALLY licked a brick of coir
And, please never stop busting my balls lol. I’ll never learn otherwise! Definitely still learning.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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I read that thread a while back. It was an informative read.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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So how much coir do I need to make a proper Manhattan?
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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So to put it into perspective, your summary is correct sort of. But from the get go with dub tubs back in 2001-2002 people were never colonizing tubs with high co2 and tape over holes. I have no idea where that bs came from later on. Ive always put tubs into fruiting conditions at spawning since i did my first tub. I have a thread posted about it dated 2002. And I don’t mean tray culture. Tubs with poly.
Something you might have missed. Instead of using a true casing layer, people just use a top layer of substrate and cubes fruit just fine. in addition people use coconut fiber as a substrate now rather than just an additive or casing layer. You don’t have to pasteurize it or boil it to get good results. You can simply add hot tap water and spawn 30 minutes later. Most of the prep for bulk subs with cubes is pretty much gone these days.
Ive done side by sides with tested clones boiled vs non boiled. The non boiled actually colonize faster and fruit faster. You can also spawn in 30 minutes. And even if you take away the few hours you have to wait for the boiled coir to cool before spawn, if you started both side by side the non boiled would still win in colonization speed, fruiting speed. Yield is similar either way.
Edited by eatyualive (03/02/20 06:13 PM)
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Quote:
eatyualive said: So to put it into perspective, your summary is correct sort of. But from the get go with dub tubs back in 2001-2002 people were never colonizing tubs with high co2 and tape over holes. I have no idea where that bs came from later on. Ive always put tubs into fruiting conditions at spawning since i did my first tub. I have a thread posted about it dated 2002. And I don’t mean tray culture. Tubs with poly.
Something you might have missed. Instead of using a true casing layer, people just use a top layer of substrate and cubes fruit just fine. in addition people use coconut fiber as a substrate now rather than just an additive or casing layer. You don’t have to pasteurize it or boil it to get good results. You can simply add hot tap water and spawn 30 minutes later. Most of the prep for bulk subs with cubes is pretty much gone these days.
Ive done side by sides with tested clones boiled vs non boiled. The non boiled actually colonize faster and fruit faster. You can also spawn in 30 minutes. And even if you take away the few hours you have to wait for the boiled coir to cool before spawn, if you started both side by side the non boiled would still win in colonization speed, fruiting speed. Yield is similar either way.
Spawn to straight coir no verm or gypsum?
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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You can add those - they don’t need to be pasteurized either. The jury’s still out on whether or not that will increase yields though, unless that changed already too lol
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Only way to tell is to do a trial run with a clone. If eats done it with success it is safe to roll with.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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I like verm/coir personally but you could spawn directly to coir yes.
Backstory on gypsum. I never used it for 15 years. I tried it for a year. I saw no difference except it was one more thing I had to prep. So it took more time to prep and can be a little messy. I still have a 30lb bag sitting around collecting dust. Yield is no less than it ever has been without it. Long story short-was never necessary.
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Well all this is fantastic news! Makes things alot easier. Somehow I still feel like coir is like feeding them McDonald's when they could eat steaks and lobster....is potency effected at all? Just wondering I mean even some people eat garbage food and they survive. There not winning the Olympics anytime soon but they are alive lol
-------------------- Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
Edited by hunter s thompson (03/03/20 07:50 AM)
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Mr.Wizard
Harbinger of Hallucination



Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 280
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They don't get nutes from coir, just the grain. The coir is more of a water transmission/retention thing. - from what I've read.
I think the water at McDonalds is probably on par with other places water lol
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Lol spawn a McDouble with cheese
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Mr.Wizard
Harbinger of Hallucination



Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
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Ya know, the McDouble only has one slice of cheese, where as the double cheeseburger has two. The difference is 19 cents.
-------------------- Tricks to the search bar: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24270830 Where to Start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24420178/fpart/52#27623666 My easy to see modified no-pour: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26467702 I am so happy and grateful that we get to live in joyful abundance, while things get better, and better.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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And both will give you diabetes!
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Mr.Wizard
Harbinger of Hallucination



Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 280
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
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We can dia-beat-this.
-------------------- Tricks to the search bar: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24270830 Where to Start: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24420178/fpart/52#27623666 My easy to see modified no-pour: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26467702 I am so happy and grateful that we get to live in joyful abundance, while things get better, and better.
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exzile
PROFESSOR OF MYCOLOGY




Registered: 03/12/08
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I've returned after 12 year. this post wasa good read.to bad i just made a couple cases of brf with poo jars. I did get a few grain cases done as well.
So it's safe to say when grain jars are fully done; you can pour it in a tub with fresh coir that hasn't been sterilized or pasterize and let it fruit right away?
I have some pans as well, same rules apply or still require poo?
Totes don't need any polfill or shotgun holes anymore? No more fae during fruiting?
-------------------- Something something
Edited by exzile (03/06/20 01:21 AM)
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hunter s thompson
Raoul Duke



Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 180
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Re: 10 years [Re: exzile]
#26520125 - 03/06/20 07:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hahaha diabetic mushrooms!!! But yeah that's kinda my point you are what you eat!
-------------------- Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
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