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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26511506 - 03/01/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I guess I'll just have to wait for the final tally because the blockades aren't ending until we hear back from the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs on the decisions from their bahlat. From what I understand this tentative agreement involves general land rights but doesn't yet touch on rerouting the CGL pipeline.

Although, I'm curious how much sympathy you expect me to have for laid off CN workers since the scumbags (your term for rail blockaders) were apparently harming thousands of Canadians while striking only a few short months ago. Odd how we didn't see the same vitriolic rhetoric directed at the striking workers - it's almost as if indigenous rights threaten the status quo of the settler State at a deeper level than regular labour strikes.

You know what else is strange? That claim of yours, that CN had to lay off 1500 workers because of the blockades? Well isn't it odd that CN had to lay off 1600 workers only three months ago because of a weakening economy? And that "the number of people to be laid off could rise if demand from rail customers continues to decline" and I'm pretty sure the international economy is in the slumps right now. You don't think a corporation that reported several billion dollars in profits last year and has a long history of laying off workers at every slight economic downturn would take advantage of this situation to pass the buck off onto indigenous peoples and their supporters, do you?

Did you just furiously search for the first piece of corporate media propaganda you could find?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26511510 - 03/01/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You think a person choosing not to go to work is equivalent to you choosing to stop them? With every post, you sink lower.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil]
    #26511519 - 03/01/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nice, so I finally get an answer to this question:
Quote:

Would you also denounce striking rail workers for harming probably hundreds of thousands of people, most of which have done literally nothing to deserve it?




Allow me to redirect you to my preemptive response:
Quote:

If no, then you need to understand that indigenous peoples have traditionally been excluded from the working class and the labour strike is not a tool that has always been available to them. On the other hand, native land hosts our rail and road networks (for reasons of colonialism) and as a result these are accessible to the excluded class - blockades have the double positive of both imposing economic harm and asserting indigenous sovereignty in a way that can't be ignored, by a people that have been historically ignored. The economic harm caused by indigenous blockades is not different from that caused by labour union general strikes - and if for whatever reason you decide to persist in specifically denying indigenous peoples this tactic you are displaying angry settler prejudice and should not be listened to in this matter.




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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26511545 - 03/01/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Despicable.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #26511549 - 03/01/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Is blockading the food supply of tens of thousands of people the ONLY way to get this situation resolved?



I don't know.  Can you propose a better way?



Yeah, I too am curious what Enlil would propose.



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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26511614 - 03/01/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

While we wait, here is a more informative article with the most recent updates:

‘It’s not over’: Tentative agreement with Wet’suwet’en Nation may be a milestone, but it doesn’t resolve pipeline fight - Neither the hereditary chiefs nor the B.C. and Canadian governments have changed their position on Coastal GasLink

I can't find it anywhere else, but you can view the press conference on fb here.


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26511804 - 03/01/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
1500 rail employees laid off for starters.  That took about 10 seconds to confirm.  I suppose I could look deeper, but that's enough to support my position.

Do you think any of these folks will be receiving a check from these scumbags who blockaded the railroads? 




I don't think its fair to say it's the peaceful protesters ("scumbags") responsibility. I think if anyone is responsible here it's the Canadian government.

For the laid off workers... I'm all for making CN Rail pay them, but, since you make a decent point about the retirees and their investment funds, there's always a better option... they can use the Employment insurance they pay into each and every paycheck. I guess we implemented those kinda social nets for reasons like unexpected lay offs! :shrug:

If the blockades lasted longer then their employment insurance payments would be coming in, maybe my argument wouldn't  be as valid but still I don't think it's protesters responsibility.

Also I googled it and apparently Bill Gates is the 2nd largest shareholder of CN rail.


tl;dr

I'm a libtard :shrug2:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26513333 - 03/02/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

They aren't protesters.  They're criminals.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil]
    #26513638 - 03/02/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



Official "Dispicable Criminals" merchandise 10% off while standoff lasts
Ask about village and elder discounts
Made in Canada by domestic and imported labor


Edited by MadMuncher (03/02/20 10:04 PM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26513642 - 03/02/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i spent my time reading that book i suggested to you earlier to the nazis while i was in there. i found it so profound i transcribed some pages that i still carry around with me one sec..



Edited by MadMuncher (03/02/20 10:18 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26513672 - 03/02/20 10:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, yeah...elevate some criminals stopping trains to folk-hero status by comparing them to people who harmed no one.  While we're at it, let's throw in the 9/11 hijackers.  Look at what they accomplished with their protest.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26513720 - 03/02/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

by your interpretation they did quite a bit of harm


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_bus_boycott
Quote:

The boycott proved extremely effective, with enough riders lost to the city transit system to cause serious economic distress.   





poor clarence..

Quote:

Sales at the boycotted stores dropped by a third, leading their owners to abandon segregation policies.[2] On Monday, July 25, 1960, after nearly $200,000 in losses ($1.7 million in 2019 dollars), and a reduction in salary for not meeting sales goals, store manager Clarence Harris asked four black employees, Geneva Tisdale, Susie Morrison, Anetha Jones, and Charles Bess[28], to change out of their work clothes and order a meal at the counter. 




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

this is just scratching the surface the nazis can tell you all about the "harm" they did
tell you about their rascist solutrian hypotheses too i bet




one fucking google search gimme a fucking break man. heres a couple more of my favorite folk heros you should go read about



...<- would not fuck with


i bet youd appreciate this guy and his mother if you knew their story. about as despicable as they get


Edited by MadMuncher (03/03/20 12:48 AM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26513757 - 03/02/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
This is so bizarre... who hates Native Americans? I can’t even think of a single stereotype for NMs.

Seriously, what’s the deal? Are they taking your jobs like them dang Mesikins do in the US? Are they stealing your womens, you insecure weirdo?


Either way, it’s definitely possible to have a comeback after an attempted genocide....take it from a Jew...
It helps if your families have 5-10 kids each generation :rofl2:



Canada is a colonial state. The quality of life that the average Canadian enjoys is directly connected to the exploitation of indigenous peoples and their land, and so indigenous land rights directly threatens the status quo.

That's apparently enough to make a large amount of people hate you.




Stereotypes against First Nations are typically drunkeness and laziness
people make resentful statements about how tax money gets "wasted"
when they see Natives driving around in huge expensive trucks (Southern Praries at least)

think the image of the Welfare Black that shows up in the US also grafts onto First Nations in Canada
around the first of the month, overhear a number of complaints about Natives shopping or crowding the bank line

those perceptions certainly tie back in to your statement
but just clarifying the colloquial representation -- if "your" people built things up over generations, you being born into success is a demonstration of your personal success
if "their" people were oppressed for generations, their being born into poverty is a demonstration of their personal failings and need to lift themselves up

honestly, it is almost reminiscent of how the Hindu Caste system enforced social divisions
by purporting that a high or low birth was a product of merits or sins in past lives


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil]
    #26513837 - 03/03/20 12:54 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)



Edited by MadMuncher (03/03/20 01:09 AM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Tantrika]
    #26513850 - 03/03/20 01:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

@tantrika

that shit doesnt belong in this thread at all. pretty sure we got past that on the first page. i know there are other natives on here reading this but they get too pissed off to talk about it because of shit like that

everybody knows plenty of stereotypes about native people and if they dont you dont need to go around putting off that pollution about us.

really gotta be careful i got my first official warning from this thread can i just say

fuck you disney


Edited by MadMuncher (03/03/20 02:03 AM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26513979 - 03/03/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
@tantrika

that shit doesnt belong in this thread at all. pretty sure we got past that on the first page. i know there are other natives on here reading this but they get too pissed off to talk about it because of shit like that

everybody knows plenty of stereotypes about native people and if they dont you dont need to go around putting off that pollution about us.

really gotta be careful i got my first official warning from this thread can i just say

fuck you disney




A question was asked, and answered

it was not my statement of personal assessment as to whether the stereotypes were valid
simply conveying information to a non-Canadian citizen
US citizens do not have the same stereotypes of Native Americans as Canadians have of First Nations
arguably, if anything US citizens have more of a misplaced pride where they hijack Native history as their own
while Canada does so with formal national imagery, but the sentiment does not resonate among the people

as a trans woman, frequently complain about the stereotypes among straight cis men that potentially endanger myself and people like me
as well as explaining stereotypes about trans people and how those colour the lived experiences of trans people
it would be disingenouous of me to ignore the social impacts of stereotypes just because of the race of the people being stereotyped

you won't get a second warning if you stick to discussing things in a respectful, non-personal manner


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26514099 - 03/03/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Setting aside your empty rhetoric, there is a difference between a boycott or strike and actively interfering with other people's rights.  A boycott is when people choose NOT to use another person's goods or services.  A strike is when people choose NOT to go to work.  Those are both expressions of individual rights, and I am always on the side of maximizing individual rights.

The blockades, however, are not anything like that.  The blockades are people choosing to impede other people in their expression of their individual rights.  It's not the same thing at all. 

And I'm not even taking sides between the indigenous people and the government.  I don't know enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.  I'm simply taking a position against the specific people (scumbags) who are intentionally harming people.  People in this thread seem so blinded by the overall injustice (real or perceived) against the indigenous people that they can't seem to rationally separate that injustice from the actions of these scumbags.  One does not justify the other, regardless of how angry you or others may be.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #26514120 - 03/03/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not seeing a clear distinction between them blockading the railroad that passed through their land, and transportation workers or teachers going on an extended strike. They all do harm to others. We all make our own judgements on how much the ends justify the means.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26514134 - 03/03/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

I don't know enough about the issue to have an informed opinion.  I'm simply taking a position against the specific people (scumbags) who are intentionally harming people.




correct.
unplug your keyboard and educate yourself

i also am curious what you think a harmless protest would look like in this case and invite you to suggest an uneducated alternative instead


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shutdown Canada: The Wet’suwet’en Standoff [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26514139 - 03/03/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The clear distinction is that striking workers can be replaced.  Teachers can be replaced.  A blockade is a use of force that can only be stopped by a countervailing use of force.


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