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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Come and See 2
#26508824 - 02/28/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Various religions depict the Creator as something outside of us. But Kabbalah explains that it is forbidden to imagine the Creator as an image of any kind, that the Creator is a quality that exists within each of us.
The Creator is the quality of love and bestowal. The meaning of the word “Creator” (Borre in Hebrew) is “Come and See” (Bo u Re’e), meaning come and discover this quality within you. There is no external, foreign element for whom we work! We work on correcting ourselves, on attaining the qualities of love and giving, the Creator.
Around two thousand years ago, we lost the feeling of the Creator—we were exiled and lost the true picture of the world. We began to think that the Creator was someone who existed separately from us, rather than a quality that appeared within us. Instead of depicting the Creator as the primary and foremost quality of Creation, which clothes within us, we began to think of Him as a separate and foreign entity.
- Rav Michael Laitman
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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scarabaeus
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Yes. This is the way I interpret the various Kabbalistic teachings. The Jewish faith fell into worthlessness (as did all Abrahamic religions) when it lost it's mystical component IMO. Un fortunately, from what I have seen, all religions lose their mystical component over time thus castrating themselves from 'God'. This is not to say that religions are 'only negative', for many of them do good work -but without a mystical component there is little there for the true seeker.
Giving 'God' an image means that you are not 'there' yet (as far as enlightenment, or nirvana, or a glimpse of paradise or heaven etc.). There is Kether, and above that is Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur if I remember correctly. I don't remember off the top of my head the translation. The LIght , The limitless Light , The...? Anyway, pure consciousness which is 'God', has no image -there is nothing as in no thing. No thing but pure consciousness. This is my two pennies , Peace.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Yeah I couldn't agree more We've been moving further and further away from spiritual understanding for a long time now, the Kali Yuga as the yogis would call it. I think watered down spiritual traditions serve their purpose in this age, but at least for me, the mystical traditions seem to hold (or used to hold) the closest thing to truth that it's possible to communicate. It took me a while to get into Kabbalah, but once I started to understand the terminology (with some help from my teacher), I am amazed at the way it explains the relationship we have with the Light/Creator and how we can make the ascent 
Keter/Kether - Crown Ein - Nothingness Ein Sof - The Limitless/Infinite Ohr Ein Sof - The Limitless/Infinite Light
Plus whatever spelling variations, lol.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (02/28/20 09:09 PM)
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scarabaeus
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Thanks for clarifying the Hebrew terminology friend. Years ago I studied and practiced what I guess could best be called methods of 'The Western Mystical Tradition' which of course is heavily based upon the Cabbala (Kabbalah etc.). I have since moved on from most of that, but the Kabbalah has remained a useful tool in my personal development. It is a good roadmap or maybe a better term would be a kind of GPS for your spiritual well being (?). I try to keep my 'self' in the Middle Pillar and always try to keep aligned with Kether. I assume that makes sense to you, one of the few people I have recently spoken with that could possibly 'get it' lol.
Since I have your attention, who is this teacher you mentioned -I'm always curious as to how people find their way to personal development and the how/why it works for them.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Yeah that makes total sense I definitely don't claim to be an expert in Kabbalah however, it is a fairly recent thing for me quite honestly. I dabbled in various things, including aspects of the Western Mystical Tradition myself years ago before I found my teacher. I've been with him 6 or 7 years now, and he's taken us through all kinds of things from Hermeticism, to Zen, Daoism, Tantra, Kabbalah etc all from a very practical perspective. A true master imho. He opened a public website just a year or so ago.
https://drukama.com/
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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scarabaeus
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Thank you so much for being so candid. Where I live here on the East Coast one rarely sees such open honesty. I reviewed your link. The first thing that came to mind was 1 -'how much money did it take to make this high quality production video, and 2- where did the money come from? Red flags my friend, red flags. God doesn't care about material things. People claiming to be aligned with God don't drive a better car than I do or have a better cable package than I can afford. Something to think about. Maybe aligning yourself with drukama at this time in your life is exactly what you need at THIS time in your life, but please remember that ANY man who speaks spiritual truths is still just a man. If God is everywhere, that means a part of 'him', is inside of YOU. Listen to that. Put your faith in that. At the end of the day, there is only 'that'.
You are obviously an intelligent person (woman I presume?). If you weren't I never would have responded to your initial post. So I hope that you don't find these comments offending for this is not my intention. I ONLY care about your well-being and personal growth.
You have been honest with me, so let me tell you about MY 'guru'. MAHARSHI. You can google his name and learn if you wish.
I wish you peace, love, and all the rest friend. What ever it is that works for you is of course the very thing that works for you. But be careful! Somebody want your $ ? Somebody want your body? This has all been done before many times over, and it never turns out well.
Hope I'm not hurting your feelings -please do respond if you feel so inclined.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Haha, you know you are not the first person to say that. Actually the whole website and all of the videos were created by volunteers, members of the group. I personally know the guy who does the videos. Not a single penny has been spent on design, marketing, videos, or anything of the sort. We just happen to have a very skilled group of practitioners I was with Daishi for 5 years before there even was a public website, and was never asked for a single penny. I actually moved out to SoCal from the UK to study with Daishi directly, and trust me when I say he is about the most giving person I have ever met in my entire life. He has even paid my rent to a private landlord for the past year since I can't work out here (out of his own pocket, not Drukama), literally given me the clothes off his back etc.
Drukama is a registered 501c. Trust me when I say this is not about the money, at all, but in this day and age, spiritual organisations have to play the game, although it's hard to win when you need to market yourself online to get out there, but then everyone turns around and says it's too well done We are trying to set up a foundation from which these teachings can be shared, where we can provide for practitioners looking to take a break from the world to practice, charitable giving, and not to mention putting food on the table for Daishi and his family, as he is dedicating his whole live to this, and give something back to the volunteers eventually too. Daishi actually used to run an extremely successful financial business, and if he wanted to make money, he could have just stuck with that.
I might heed your warnings just a tiny bit if his teachings hadn't completely changed my life. I have had many experiences spiritual practitioners seek their whole lives and never find, not to mention the overwhelming impact it's had on my well-being. And yes, I am female. No feelings have been hurt by the way I do understand your misgivings. What we are doing hasn't really been done before and people don't really understand what it is about yet, and that's understable because it's so new.
I know who Ramana Maharashi is. A very great teacher. We can talk about men just being men, but if you follow the teachings of someone like Maharashi, I think you might know it's true that some men have found a way to be much closer to God than the rest of us, and luckily they sometimes offer that knowledge up to the rest of us, otherwise we would be lost.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (02/28/20 11:54 PM)
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scarabaeus
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I hope what you believe is that which is true! If what you describe is what is actually happening, well that can only benefit us all. And that is a good thing.
$ ? Let me tell you about MY life. Some of that $ volunteers gave for these multi-thousand dollar videos to promote the cause could have fed hundreds of children in my community. I came from nothing, worked my butt off and sometimes had to sleep on strangers couches because I couldn't afford college and an apartment. I don't know what you did this morning, but I assisted in a below the knee amputation. An hour later assisted in phalangel amputation of a diabetic. Then they put me on a differernt detail where I had to inform (by phone) that one of our residents (their father) had passed. Then I came home with 3 days off, got bored and decided to post. I exercised, meditated, ate dinner and went Shroomery. What did you do today? Perhaps you can understand a bit better why I am skeptical about any organization that collects money while concomitantly claiming to help people find a better way? I have seen this 3-5 times before in my life always collecting $ but never telling anyone where it goes
Proof is in the pudding. Never forget Malkuth, Earth, Pentacles. Taking care of yourself and then having enough left over to help your fellow man is in and of itself a spiritual endeavor. Anyone who tells you different is either a simpleton, or a liar. One can help people on their journey without pledging allegiance to some 'better' cause that can only come about by the exclamtions/purpose/ideals of some self proclaimed dispeller of darkness (Guru).
I cannot endorse your guru. Prove me wrong!!!
BEWARE of becoming a sheep. God (for lack of a better word) speaks to each of us -one does not need someone to tell us what we already in our heart already know.
I only want the best for you. Follow your heart. Onward and upward my fellow traveler. Perhaps one day we will meet in the same place even though we took different paths. 
It is 2:45 am here on the east coast. Please do respond if you wish, but I may not get back to you for several days. Time for me to sleep. Peace...
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Thanks for sharing a bit about your life. It’s great that you are able to contribute something so positive to the world. Sounds like you are performing a great service. Good for you. I was a high school teacher myself for over 10 years before I came out here. I decided to give up my life because sorting myself out spiritually seemed more important, in order that eventually I will be able to help others do the same, and to help people put an end to the illusory suffering we put ourselves through every single day. That is what I believe our entire lives are about, learning how to gain mastery over ourselves so we don’t have to suffer anymore, and then to help others to do the same, the way of the Bodhisattva. What matters to me is that people don’t needlessly suffer because of their own minds anymore. For me personally, there is no more noble cause, but I know we are not all on the same page about that necessarily.
I think there is confusion about the videos though. Those videos only cost the time it took a member of the volunteer team to produce, shoot and edit them. Zero money was spent, although at some point it would be nice to put food on the table for the people who dedicate so much of their time to this project for absolutely nothing. Honestly, public Drukama is so new at the moment, I don’t think there is really any money going anywhere right now.
I just wanted to say, I do understand your concerns, and I appreciate you trying to look out for me. It’s sad that so many spiritual teachers are not the real deal, and end up misleading their followers, or worse. It makes people wary of even genuine teachings. I get it. Because of that, it’s very easy to make assumptions about what someone is or is claiming to be, without any real facts to back that up. The question should always be about whether the teachings themselves resonate, and whether they are effective and bear fruit. Before I met Daishi, I was basically a mental and emotional wreck, to be quite honest. These days, the vast majority of the time I am just joyful, without reason, and feel absolutely filled with love and a desire to do whatever I can to help others. I’m not quite at the stage where I can do that yet at least spiritually, but the will to bestow grows a little stronger each day, which is the main thing.
Anyway, I’m not sure I can ever prove anything to you, nor is it my job. This things have to be experienced oneself to be fully understood. Real teachers ask for no beliefs, they merely give one the tools to find out the truth for themselves. You asked me about my teacher, and I have shared all that I can. I really wish you all the best on your journey too. May we all find what we are ultimately looking for 
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (02/29/20 01:53 AM)
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scarabaeus
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Thanks for your timely response. Bad news is that I don't see how your teacher could help me. Good news is that it doesn't matter. I hope we both learned a bit in our little discourse this evening (I think we did; I know I did. Maybe we are all just spokes in the great wheel _the closer we get to the axis is the closer we come to GOD.
Different spokes -different folks.
p.s. good night for real this time lol. Peace Sister.
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BrendanFlock
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The creator is the soul...or has a soul so to speak..
The soul is your direct source of your personality and personhood..
In that you learn to extend yourself out into reality from outside the egg...you can learn from each other./.and have fun and have exciting adventures..
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scarabaeus
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Thanks for chiming in friend. I agree. Peace to you. And now I gotta get back to work! Much and keep
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banquet
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Quote:
PocketLady said: Various religions depict the Creator as something outside of us. But Kabbalah explains that it is forbidden to imagine the Creator as an image of any kind, that the Creator is a quality that exists within each of us.
The Creator is the quality of love and bestowal. The meaning of the word “Creator” (Borre in Hebrew) is “Come and See” (Bo u Re’e), meaning come and discover this quality within you. There is no external, foreign element for whom we work! We work on correcting ourselves, on attaining the qualities of love and giving, the Creator.
Around two thousand years ago, we lost the feeling of the Creator—we were exiled and lost the true picture of the world. We began to think that the Creator was someone who existed separately from us, rather than a quality that appeared within us. Instead of depicting the Creator as the primary and foremost quality of Creation, which clothes within us, we began to think of Him as a separate and foreign entity.
- Rav Michael Laitman
yea already know this stuff... cmon..
--------------------
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saved7
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Quote:
PocketLady said: Around two thousand years ago, we lost the feeling of the Creator—we were exiled and lost the true picture of the world. We began to think that the Creator was someone who existed separately from us, rather than a quality that appeared within us. Instead of depicting the Creator as the primary and foremost quality of Creation, which clothes within us, we began to think of Him as a separate and foreign entity.
Two thousand years ago, humanity was invited back into the mystery of God and his kingdom.
Perhaps today the truth is more offensive than ever...
How could God have been a simple man among us? How could God be hanging bloody, dying on a wooden cross? How unfashionable.... We can hear an echo in our own minds of the crowd's taunting... "If you're truly the Son of God then why can't you come down off that cross?"
Humanity has been worshiping its own earthly power since the beginning of history... History is Cain slaying Abel. History is the Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, Egypt, etc. etc. Murder and slavery. Man trying to be god. At what point in history were people "one with the creator" ? We behave as animals, hopping from one lustful desire to the next.
God showed us how completely upside down we were.
God showed us real power and victory, through ultimate suffering, loss and weakness.
How foolish that the blood of mocked and humiliated man, dying the death reserved for Roman slaves, should become the ultimate symbol of freedom and heavenly conquest. And yet it happened.
It was the "Sign of Jonah" that Jesus referred to. The ancient Israelite Jonah fell into the dark depths for 3 days before ascending back up onto land. Afterwards, Jonah went and preached to the Assyrian city of Nineveh... the most striking account of mass-conversion/repentance of a non-Jewish people bowing before the God of Israel.
Just as Jesus was in the grave for 3 days before being raised up and leading a ministry that would spread across the non-Jewish world, fulfilling thousands of years of prophecy in scripture... so much so that we recognize Him when we date the year. (Talk about fulfilling the Sign of Jonah!)
You couldn't make it up if you tried, which is why there is nothing even remotely like the enigma of Jesus Christ in all of history. No other religious claims get anywhere close to the phenomena of the Old and New Testaments of Jesus Christ.
God is right here beckoning us to "Come and see", to anyone who wants the truth. Those looking to doubt will be given more doubt. They will stay on the surface, with surface talking-points.
But those with ears to hear and who want the truth, will be increasingly beckoned into the mystery and have a world of evidence opened up to them. You may wrestle with the evidence, but the more you consider it, the more you will come to the conclusion that the gospels of Jesus Christ exist because they are true.
Jesus himself did not march down the streets proclaiming himself to be God. He always posed the question: "Who do you say that I am?" When he revealed who he was, it was always through riddles and parables.
Because such an amazing mystery could not simply be revealed in a common statement... it could only be accessed by the heart of a believer, someone thirsting for the truth.
That's what the Cross of Jesus Christ does for us today. It penetrates through our lies and pretensions that we're just rational people basing our worldviews on evidence, and instead goes straight to our hearts (where we can't hide behind contrived philosphies and ideologies designed to resist the truth.)
We look at the gospels of Jesus Christ and realize that THIS is what God did for us. He loved us so much that He died for us. His funeral was a royal wedding. Jesus' blood poured out for us sealed the covenant that would rescue us from exile and bring us back into His kingdom as a glorious bride. It is the greatest love story ever told.
Let those with ears to hear, hear:
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
Edited by saved7 (03/06/20 06:06 AM)
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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The world is a parable, two stories at once, one layered beneath the other. On the outside, it is the story of a brute called Reality, a bloodless monster hosting an army of fiends, beasts, lunacy and, worst of all, futility. On the inside, it is a story of its own Author with you alone, in eternal love, and every challenge of this adventure just another expression of that love, drawing the two of you yet closer.
The world is a parable, a story on two channels at once. On which channel do you choose to spend your precious time?
- Rabbi Tzvi Freeman
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Connection
Wise Man!!



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Religion is dicey, am i right you can’t say an ancient jewish religion, that existed for eons was nessecarily wrong, and that they didn’t have some truths right, before Jesus Christ, but the creator you call it or God exists i’ve seen it in a dream, he calls himself god or he can be called the divine creator too, the divine creator, thing really does admit to more pure awareness, and love, and true divinity of all creation’s of existence, and God has the most dicey most unconcievable word in existence, now is this God love, somewhat, but the God itself has intelligence, thoughts, an image, i could explain to you what god looks like or the balls of light look like that call themselves god’s too, but that would just flash you into a mega brain wave of enlightenment, and ultimatenessess, that would blow your mind to smithereans, and Christian’s would hate me forever. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttt lol, i think it’s time in humanities evolution now, and you should know what he looked like in my dream.
He was a white man, in a white robe, key in the white robe part, and this will explain to you everything on why people wear white robes, who are religious... why??????????? Because they’ve seen God, should i go on okay I will, stop reading NOW if you do not want to know what this divine creator aka God looks like if you want to know keep reading. He was like 3,000 or more feet tall, and he said Stoooooooooooooppppppppp! We were standing in the universe i was in the stars we were above earth, a white tall man approached me in the cosmos, he was wearing a GIANT HOLY WHITE robe and he has sparkles, he said have no confusion i am your god, this shit blew my mind to smithereens, i was gone. He had white hair a pony tail with a rubber band on it, he was old but had a straight back with no wrinkles, his skin was phenominal, I asked the man why was their war he said for no reason at all. I asked him what was the purpose to life he said to travel the galaxies, whooaaaa man whooaaaaa ever since then i haven’t been able to get the idea of an Ultimate Creator or God out of my head, it was like whoaaa!
I would not lie about anything like this and i believe in the bible there was a dream of an angel visiting warning them that Jesus was going to be sought out after and it was true from the beginning. I think the Kabbalah had it right, you can’t go around saying “My religion is right, your’s is wrong, because, that defeats the whole, point.
-------------------- Life is an expression of countless endless words that are true for you and the universe and all the time it will come to your mind life and spirit of humanity and your life you are truly grateful to be alive you are the great one of this universe you are wise and truly endless in your nature...
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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It seems like the very heart of all religions say basically the same thing. I think the problem is that that true essence has been mostly lost over time. I'm pretty sure the Kabbalists, the Sufis, the Tantrikas, and various other esoteric branches of spiritual traditions have always recognised that it's all saying the same thing. And in fact, it's not even that it's saying the same thing, it's that these esoteric branches provide tools by which we might experience God for ourselves, through union, without any requirement for belief or dogma.
What seems to have happened with mainstream religion, is that instead of the emphasis being on using these tools for spiritual experience, division led by dogmatic belief has arisen over time. Instead of being given tools to find God, people are simply told, 'You should believe in God, and these are the rules.' And like the tips of tree branches, they all believe themselves to be separate and different from one another, because they have lost sight of the trunk and roots of the tree which actually connects them all.
Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language. - Meister Eckhart
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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BrendanFlock
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The idea of coming to see is a fallacy.. we are at rest and we see through an infinite kalidascope.. but it is known and true that a thing is defined as it's bearings.. The kaleidascope is an infinite prism.. with every color possible..
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PocketLady



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That may be true, but I think it's more about using language people understand and can relate to, rather than trying to describe an absolute truth. It's easy to say we are all God, but in reality effort and the desire to 'move closer' to God is what makes us realise that fact. I can sit here and say time isn't real and that I'm [part of] God, but I'm never going to permanently realise that and understand what that really means until some action is taken to enter into union with God. There's a saying in Daoism: 'Action leads to actionless action'.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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scarabaeus
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Re: connection -damn friend! Relax, we're all just talking here lol.
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scarabaeus
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Re: connection (again) -last post crashed mid-post for some reason. What I was going to say is that your post IMO was too general and hard to reply to. I would like to hear your opinion on the OP's post etc. but your post was too broad in it's scope.
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scarabaeus
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Re: pocketlady - hello friend. U R Showing courage which is always a good thing. I have always found that the biggest problems in these kinds of conversations is that nobody defines what they mean by the word 'GOD'. And everything gets weird from there lol!
Anywho... Even though we have different opinions about key aspects of spirituality, you seem like someone who I could hang out with in my spare time (as limited as it is). If we weren't separated by 2500 miles or whatever it is!
I will try to follow this thread in a timely fashion; it is good/healthy conversation. -Peace friends
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scarabaeus
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Re: connection , one more time again! I just realized that it might seem like I'm calling you out -believe me that that is NOT my intention. I was just commenting on the way , in general, that this thread was going. I wasn't trying to single you out. Much peace and love and etc.
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PocketLady



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Yeah I know what you mean about defining God, not that it's even really possible to define lol. From my perspective, I thought the OP kind of covered the fact that I, at least, am not talking about a man in the clouds, but maybe that doesn't come across 
Appreciate you saying that. Life would be absolutely pointless if we all thought the same anyway. It's good to hear other perspectives and I always really appreciate it when people can still be friendly and have love in their hearts, even when they don't agree on everything The ego likes to create separation wherever it can, not an easy thing to overcome. Look forward to seeing you around
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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BrendanFlock
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My point of view is if God can communicate to us..then there are words he can use to describe himself and other things/people.
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PocketLady



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Sure, there are words we can use in an attempt to describe God (and other things), but how to truly describe the ineffable? Language can never truly explain what anything is imho. One of the best analogies I ever heard was trying to describe what ice cream is like to someone who has never experienced it. I can say it's cold, sweet, tasty, whatever, but words can never truly express what ice cream is like. They can only re-present it. Only someone who has experienced it directly, knows. I think that's probably true even more so when it comes to things like God, because so many spiritual traditions try to get across the idea that God exists completely outside of any kind of conceptualisation.
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
- Tao Te Ching
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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deff
just love everyone



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To add to the difficulty of describing God / Truth - I also feel that different people touch different aspects of the Divine in their realizations and experiences, it's like the analogy of the blind people feeling different parts of an elephant and all disagreeing on what an elephant is. I think since we share being human there's some shared overlap in our potential experiences of the divine though (built into our physiology and energetic systems), but that God / the Divine is always so much more than what can ever be experienced by one being. I imagine that an extraterrestrial enlightened being would be experiencing the Divine in a very different way than a human Master. And that diversity is a beautiful thing
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Re: Come and See [Re: deff] 1
#26525968 - 03/09/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's a good point. I remember when I was a kid contemplating if the colour green (for example) was the same for everyone. Or maybe some people see green the way I see red, and vice versa? I also feel like maybe the closer we get towards God, the deeper the union becomes and the more we come to realise God's essential nature, the more authentically we perceive God. But to truly experience the final depths of the ultimate, I wonder if any part of the 'experiencer' could actually come back from that to [attempt to] tell the story...
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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deff
just love everyone



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Yes that's a good point - also I don't know if that is even the goal per se (to experience the sum total of God) as I feel we are individualized extensions from God that are meant to journey within the uniqueness of our own experiences - and that that is why we exist (why God dreamt us as individuals). That's not to say we can't move into formless or cosmic states of consciousness - but that even these too are still individual experiences, just on a much vaster scale. But of course much is a Mystery to us
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



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Re: Come and See [Re: deff] 1
#26526018 - 03/09/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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"And I saw when the lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him; and he went forth conquering and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see though hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death and with the beasts of the earth."
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Re: Come and See [Re: deff] 1
#26526021 - 03/09/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah I agree, my personal perspective is that it seems to be a continuing journey closer and closer to God, but never totally dissolving into the absolute and losing all uniqueness. I remember reading something ages ago about walking across a dance floor. If you move halfway across, and then halfway across from there again, and again and again, you keep inching closer and closer but never actually make it to the other side. Seems like a good analogy for getting closer to complete union with God if you ask me
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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PocketLady



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Ha, that's a great reference. I had totally forgotten about the 'come and see' in Revelations, probably the most esoteric book in the Bible
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



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I think it's especially relevant right now with Covid-19 spreading and all. The virus being one of the beast of the earth.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,818
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Re: Come and See [Re: deff] 3
#26526040 - 03/09/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, the infinite cannot be grasped in its totality, but must be approached tangentially. It's as if the infinite, undivided existence were a shape with infinite facets -- like a circle -- and the more you grasp, there are still just as many sides left. There is no limit, and no boundary.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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deff
just love everyone



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yes I like that analogy
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Come and See [Re: deff]
#26526364 - 03/09/20 11:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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What about the line from the bible..
The word was with God.. and the word was God..?
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Good question. Personally I don't think it refers to the kinds of words that we use to describe things, but more to do with the fact that God is Mind (big M), or pure awareness/thought/consciousness. Our reality was created because God thought it into existence. Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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saved7
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: What about the line from the bible..
The word was with God.. and the word was God..?
That's Jesus.
Jesus is the logic, intelligibility, and expression of God. "The Word made Flesh"... How amazing that the Creator of the universe came to dwell with us as one of us. (not to mention die for us)
God's Word is what holds everything together. You'll never find an explanation for nature by looking within nature. There is never a natural explanation for why nature consists and why nature proceeds in the first place. We use descriptions like "inherent properties of nature" to cover-up the fact that we have no natural explanation.
It is only by the Word of God that all things consist. All things are gathered together in Christ. The world was created by Him and for Him, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
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scarabaeus
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Greetings P Lady. I was hoping that this thread didn't fall apart before I got back to it (I've been mucho busy). Just wanted to say hello -wish this topic generated more interest, but that's the way she goes. As always, I wish you much peace on your journey; you seem like a very righteous soul. -Scarabaeus
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PocketLady



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Thank you so much scarabaeus. Likewise to you I gathered from what you were saying that you work in a hospital. Thinking of all the hospital/medical workers a lot at this time...Heroes. I really hope you are keeping well.
I actually have some more extracts I've been meaning to post in this thread but my laptop died and I lost them for now, but I'll try and revive it at some point.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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scarabaeus
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Greetings once again PLady. Yup, very busy. This corona virus thing is very scary indeed. It is hard to convey to people the seriousness of the present situation -many do not listen to those who know stuff (sound familiar?) lol. I'm sure you are smart enough to take the proper precautions and listen to the health care science of those pros who went to school to learn about/understand these kind of things.
Every day is a gift.
Materialistic life on materialistic planet earth is the arena of learning IMO - and I would prefer to stay here as long as possible to learn as much as possible! The way I see it is that 'the powers that be' sent me here, (or I ended up here ?), to work out my probs and by cleansing my 'being', I can eventually return home. My personal philosophy on such matters is of course more complicated but you get my drift.
Anyway, I as always wish you much and . Things are about to get very crazy here but I hope to have further discourse with you in the future. Stay safe! -Scarabaeus.
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Yeah I understand where you are coming from about this experience on Earth being a place of learning. It is that for sure. I guess I just differ in that I want to graduate quickly, so that I can help other people do the same. Not to physically escape, but to remain here but coming from a different perspective. I doubt the learning ever stops though, even after graduation
The entire coronavirus situation is completely unprecedented, and it seems like it hasn't even truly started for many places yet...Luckily Daishi gave us very advanced warning several months ago that this was going to happen so I am prepared and able to stay out of the way for a long time and help stop the spread. The whole group here was in voluntary lockdown in our homes way before our state-wide announcement. Whilst I personally have had some negative experiences with medical professionals in the past, in this situation I am completely behind everyone working tirelessly to improve the situation we are in. I understand the gravity of the situation, though I can't imagine what it's like to be on the frontline at all...So grateful to you and all health and key workers putting themselves at risk to look after people at this time. I really hope you are also able to stay out of harms way. Take care
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (03/25/20 09:47 PM)
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scarabaeus
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Looks like I caught you in real time! Probs with healthcare pros in the past? - I don't doubt it for a second friend. Early in school (WAY early), a nurse PHD came in to give us a lecture. The first thing she said was "how many of you here are in it for the money?". More than 1/2 of my fellow students raised their hand -including a fellow student I was dating. My heart sank. There are peeps in this business that have no business being here. For them it is just a job. Fortunately, the further one goes in their career the more the wheat gets separated from the chaff so to speak. But some maleficents (sp?) still move along to no ones benefit.
I knew a really great surgeon who because he was such an awesome human being received scholarships and grants that enabled him to attend Harvard Medical School. This was a really cool blue collar dude who came from circumstances worse than mine. Anywho, he told me stories of how some of the students there in Med school were just knuckleheads who never even wanted to get into medicine. It was like 'my grandaddt was a doctor, and my pop was a doc, so mommy is gonna be embarrassed at the country club if I don't go to Med school. I guess everywhere you look there are going to be god doctors and bad doctors, good plumbers and bad ones, good accountants and sketchy accountants, on and on and down the line...
BTW, thank you for the 'safety vibes' you sent to me in your last post, as you said, people in my profession truly are on the front line -I could tell you stories but my sister who is also in the biz always tells me to shut up about such things. Things that creep other people out just falls off my back, but sometimes I don't realize how other people react to such things.
It's getting late here; I'm going to check out your community when I have more time. I want you to get to 'heaven', 'nirvana', 'enlightenment' or whatever label one chooses as soon as possible, and I want to make sure you are not in cahoots with some sketchy peeps. Cahoots? I'm not sure I have ever used that word in my entire life before now lol. That just goes to show you how beat-up I am.
I never judge friend. Skepticism has always been proven to be a positive force throughout history; I don't want you or anyone else to lose that fact. Believe me when I say it, I only want the best for you. Keep rockin' it girl!
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Yeah it's seems like there are those just in it for the money wherever you go, even in caring/healing professions. My issue is not so much with doctors themselves. I've seen some really nice doctors in the past who genuinely cared and wanted to help. Just my experiences have shown me that the (western) medical profession is not in the business of (nor often capable of) successfully diagnosing and curing many chronic conditions. Acute is different, but chronic generally just seems to be about treating and medicating symptoms, rather than getting to the bottom of the issue and fixing it. I think the pharmaceutical industry can largely be blamed for that sadly.
As it happens, Drukama.com have been running a 3 day 'preview' for the last couple of weeks. So if you do want to check it out, you can get in and see everything without signing your life away I appreciate your concern for my wellbeing, but I am absolutely certain I am in the best place I could ever hope to be. I have had the most incredible experiences follow these teachings, so at this point there's not much anyone could say that would ever convince me I might actually just belong to a cult
I agree that skepticism is very healthy. 'I don't have any beliefs, but I have many suspicions.' One of my favourite Robert Anton Wilson quotes. True teachers don't tell you what to believe, they give tools that one might experience things for themselves, and know Truth directly.
Anyway, stay safe. Whereabouts on the East Coast are you? I know some states have been hit pretty bad out that way, although seems like that's the way many are heading.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (03/26/20 12:09 PM)
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scarabaeus
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Re: Pocket Lady -first of all . Second, to answer your last question first, I live at covid19 ground zero (NJ side of the river). Things are really bad here. As bad as it is in sunny California, it is much worse in my east coast cities because we are stacked on top of each other, and close proximity one to another is always what breeds disease. When I was a young man I spent lots of time in the city -as I grew older and wiser, I just wanted to get further and further out into the country; too far out is less expensive but being in health care one MUST get to work regardless of the weather i.e. snow, ice etc. You lived in Minnesota if I remember correctly so I guess I don't have to tell YOU lol!
Western medicine? Yup! I agree with you 100%. For example, A compound fracture of a limb that requires rods and screws to put it back in place will probably never be fixed by Eastern or any other medicine, other than invasive (but really really cool) surgery. However, other more intuitive healing methods without question in my mind and experience can and often do help the healing process. It really is a shame that our Western world has not yet found a balance between East and West (I assume this kind of thing is what you implied in your above post, do correct me if I am wrong.
The way I see the health issue is thus: 1) you are born into it (genes etc. determining things) which is karma. 2) your issue is a byproduct of your environment; meds your mom was taking when she was pregnant with child, or a virus she had at the time,, or toxins in the environment as a youth, or getting hit by a bus or falling off a skateboard or whatever. Different circumstances require different approaches; unfortunately these two above postulations have not yet given birth to a satisfactory child so to speak which can benefit us all.
Big Pharma sucks.
But pharms also save many lives. You and I (I know for a fact that I most definitely) would not be alive without advances of pharmacology; penicillin alone has saved how many? But the atrocities that Big Pharma has pushed onto society is lamentable.
I have to work tomorrow; was doing paper work on the desk top and since I was online thought I would say hello. So .
Topic I would like to hear from you: What are your spiritual practices? What do you do all day? You want to advance up the spiritual ladder so what are your preferred methods/ what works for you?
Sorry this RE wasn't better written or to the point but things are really 'hairy' around here and the phone just rang and that'ds not good. gotta go
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
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Hi scarabeus I had a feeling you were in NJ/NY. I've heard that it is very bad there. Unfortunately it seems like you guys are the future for the rest of the U.S, at least the densely populated areas. Praying for you all and hope you get the supplies and equipment necessary. I'm actually from the UK originally, so bad weather although not always that much snow And whenever it did snow, schools would always close at the drop of a hat so even though I lived in the sticks myself, I never had the problem of getting to work. I can only imagine the pressure of having to get in to work in a hospital.
Yes I totally agree with what you are saying about Western medicine. If I was sick and needed treatment for anything, I would still go and see a doctor, and I am very aware of the necessity of certain medications. I just lack a little faith these days after my own experiences and feel a more holistic approach is needed in many situations.
Well, wow that is a very big question...What do I do all day? Well, I start my day with some asanas and pranayama. I usually do two formal seated meditations a day, one in the morning and one before bed. Those vary depending on what we are working on at the time. I do energy work such a the Tibetan practice of Tummo (creating inner heat).
The main 'goal' of all of our practices are to unite what we call 'Authentic Emptiness' with 'Authentic Intention', which I guess in other systems might be called 'Wisdom' and 'Compassion', 'Emptiness' and 'Metta', 'Shiva' and 'Shakti' etc, with the goal of eventually entering into Samadhi. So that is a big part of seated practice. Many of the other ancillary practices I do are about removing the stuff, entanglements, subconscious/unconscious impulses, that prevent me from being able to hold that space.
But also the idea is to be able to hold that state throughout waking life too. During the day I do a bit of freelance work and also do some volunteer work for Drukama, but the whole time the focus is on holding that space, no matter what I am doing. I also work with the transmutation of mental/emotional/physical desires/energies, and the ascent process described in Kabbalah. It seems like moving up the spiritual ladder comes from both disentangling from ego and being able to maintain a meditative state, and also being able to transform selfish desire into altruistic desire.
There are other more esoteric things I work on too. I have to be kind of vague because a lot of stuff I do I am not at liberty to discuss openly. Not because it is in any way 'exclusive' information, but because what I am doing is part of a system which has to be followed in order and with proper instruction, otherwise there is a danger of harm from misunderstanding or a lack of prerequisite skills. I hope this makes some sense though. Be well
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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scarabaeus
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PocketLady. I understand your insistence about secrecy with certain 'things'. It sounds to me like you have a well balanced approach to the spiritual life and I applaud you . There was a time in my life when Every waking moment 9of my existence was dedicated to going into deeper and deeper spiritual waters; time well spent! The things I did yesteryear are the things that made me capable of carrying out my present day duties. Without my past spiritual discipline(s), I never would be able to do my present duties with the justice they deserve. Sometimes people ask me how I can do what I do (the blood and guts and death thing lol), and I usually just say 'oh I don't know, the wind just kind of pushed me this way'; but the truth is that My past spiritual disciplines gave me a different perspective on life/death and suffering.
Originally from the UK? You are a fascinating person . I thoroughly enjoy these conversations -in my present social life I rarely get the opportunity to discuss these topics, which is why I come to the Shroomery at all.
It would be nice for me to discuss with you my past and present spiritual practices and how the various ones worked or didn't work (but learned stuff anyway), and where I'm at and where I think I'm going etc., but it may be a while; this corona virus thing is an 'all hands on deck' situation. There is not a lot of happy faces around here right now I can tell that for sure! I'm feeling beat up and I'm not sure when I will get a day off, much less relax and find the time to post.
Thanks for your kind words ^ and keep sending out the good vibes. Hopefully we will talk again.
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