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OfflineGoldnSchlager
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The antifungal discussion post
    #2650846 - 05/07/04 06:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've heard of that too. A non-producing pasture next to a productive one in my area is rumored to be messed up due to the farmer feeding sulpher tablets to the cows. I personally don't believe the shit but I've heard it before.


Edited by GumbyDude (05/08/04 02:04 AM)


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: GoldnSchlager]
    #2650907 - 05/07/04 07:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If I had a dime for everytime I saw someone saying that farmers put shit in the cows feed to stop mushrooms I'd be a millionaire.

Again, farmers DO NOT put things in cow feed to stop the growth of mushrooms, it would not be cost effective.
Who wants to pay a few hundred(or even thousand) dollars for an antifungal to stop a few people from picking mushrooms? Hardly anyone.
And no, the government does NOT require people to put antifungal in cow feed. All rumors like these are false. The saltlick preventing fungal growth and cows needing to be grain fed rumors are also BS.


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2651388 - 05/07/04 09:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would be making you a dime richer since ranchers do sometimes use antifungals if they have problems with peeps messing up their fields. The cops may tell them to do something about the shroomers or threaten them with criminal charges for aiding a crime. I've seen that happen. sorry. :shrug:


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #2651499 - 05/07/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/07/13 12:14 PM)


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2651517 - 05/07/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They party out there, tear things up, leave trash, leave gates open, vandalize & steal, just generally being a nuisance, ya know? :wink:


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OfflineGoldnSchlager
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2651570 - 05/07/04 10:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks gumby, now I can squash all of these rumors.


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: GoldnSchlager]
    #2651600 - 05/07/04 10:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Shroomers are a nuisance here in Florida because they dont respect the farmers
Property!They tear down fences,dump trash,chase the cattle,they do all kinds of shit!
I talked to one farmer(I got permission also)and he told me all kinds of stuff-they tore
down his deer stand,left the gates open,beer bottles,the list goes on!
It's asshole shroomers like that,that make it hard on all of us,even us that have permission!
And yes GUMBYDUDE,Is has been known for farmers of Large Cattle Ranches to feed their cattle
antifungals here in Florida!I can name one farm,if you like,that I know of,but it doesnt really
work all that much from what I have seen,but the farm I speak of is over 2000 acres!So yes it
might cost more but look at from their point,pay a little more and not lose $1,000.00's in
cattle damage from some ignorant ass leaving a gate open or tearing down a fence!


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: doc34]
    #2651828 - 05/08/04 12:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here is why they give them Antifungals.They dont do it "JUST" for shroomers!

Aspergillosis:

Species susceptible: canine, bovine, equine
Equine get guttural pouch (GP) mycosis with Aspergillus nidulans (and possibly other fungi).
Usually affects dorsocaudal region of medial compartment.
Clinical signs: (depend upon degree of invasion) intermittent, spontaneous epistaxis, dysphagia, parotid pain, abnormal head posture, unilateral or bilateral nasal discharge, Horner?s syndrome, colic, facial paralysis.
Epistaxis secondary to fungal erosion of the internal carotid artery in the roof of the medial compartment. Usually unilateral epistaxis on the affected side but could be bilateral due to the GP opening into the pharynx being located caudal to the nasal septum. Can lead to fatal hemorrhage.
Dysphagia secondary to fungal erosion into the pharyngeal branches of the vagus and glossopharyngeal nerves. Nerves running through the GP are IX, X and XII.
Definitive diagnosis via GP endoscopy.
Poor prognosis due to risk of fatal bleed.
Tx: variable results with medical and surgical tx. Topical antifungals via GP catheter. Surgery is the best chance of a cure. Surgery entails use of a balloon tipped catheter to ligate the internal carotid artery. No topical treatment necessary if surgery done.
Bovine get nasal infection with Aspergillus and many other fungi but it is uncommon.
Signs include stridor, dyspnea, mucopurulent nasal discharge, +/- epistaxis, decreased nasal airflow. Diagnose via endoscopy, biopsy and culture.
Canine commonly get infections with Aspergillus fumigatus in the nasal cavity.
Feline can also get it but it is uncommon.
Primarily affects young to middle-aged dolicocephalic breeds.
Usually infects the caudal region of the ventral nasal conchae but with time spreads to all turbinate structures and frontal sinuses. May invade the maxilla, nasal and frontal bones leading to pain on palpation without facial distortion (neoplasia does this).
Rarely, Aspergillus tereus can disseminate throughout the body.
Signs: mucopurulent nasal discharge +/- epistaxis, ulceration of the external nares due to fungal toxins, sneezing (common) with episodes of severe epistaxis, pain common with palpation of nostrils and face.
Diagnosis: Culture not very helpful because normal flora in 40% normal dogs therefore those with disease must be predisposed.
Aspergillus titers frequently yield false positives.
CT and nasal radiographs are very helpful to ID turbinate destruction, rostral radiolucency and facial bone destruction if severe.
Endoscopy, biopsy and histology of fungal plaques can ID fungal invasion.
Treatment: Topical clotrimazole. Systemic imidazoles i.e.ketoconazole, itraconazole, fluconazole.


Check out the ingredient L-tryptophan!VVVVV
Atypical pnemonias (Smith pp. 656-659) (Merk pp. 1076-1078)

Fog fever (acute bovine pulmonary edema and emphysema)
Common in West when herd moved from dry grazing to lush green pastures suddenly. Often herd outbreak.
Toxin: L-tryptophan converted to 3-methylindole--causes pulmonary edema, alveolar epithelial hyperplasia, hyaline membranes and emphysema.
Signs: Usually within 2 weeks of pasture change--signs may be mild, but severe cases show acute onset dyspnea, loud exp. grunt, open mouth breathing, frothing at the mouth, tachypnea, extended head/neck. Increased temp and heart rate secondary to huge respiratory effort and hypoxia. Cattle are bright, may still eat. No scleral injection or toxic left shift on WBC. Auscultation ranges from normal to mild crackles. No elevated percussion line. Death is possible with any stress--about 30% of severely affected die. Often, spontaneously resolve after a few days. Necropsy: ecchymotic/petechiae and froth in airways; red-purple cranial lung lobes, smooth on cut surface from congestion, edema and hyaline membranes. Interstitial emphysema/bullae/gelatinous yellow interlobular edema.
Dx: Based on history and signs.
Tx: Monensin: doesn?t help sick ones, but prevents new cases by blocking the L-tryp----->3-MI conversion. Need to use for 21 days past last diagnosed case.
Prevention: 1) Don?t let hungry cattle feed freely on a new, lush pasture--gradually introduce them to it by giving hay and limiting time on new pasture.
2) Wait to put them on lush pasture after a hard frost.
3) Give monensin orally when switching to a lush pasture--start it a day before the switch, and continue for 10 days.


There are more,Here is the link where these were taken from.Read it all cause this will explain the truth about giving cattle antifungals.They do! :cool:
http://www.inchem.org/documents/jmpr/jmpmono/v070pr23.htm
enjoy. :thumbup:


--------------------


Edited by doc34 (05/08/04 12:32 AM)


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: doc34]
    #2651966 - 05/08/04 01:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sure, they'll give cattle anti-fungals to treat a fungal infection. Aspergilus is a very serious fungus that causes menegitis in humans. Of course they'd feed the cattle antifungals if they have a fungal infection that threatens the life the entire heard.

My main point is, farmers to not give cattle antifungals for the sole purpose of killing cubensis mushrooms. I'm sure that the amount of antifungal meds these farmers would need to kill off cubensis would be in the hundreds to thousands. It's just not cost efficient.

It's kinda like the rumor that people put cocaine and herion in ecstacy pills. Cocaine and herion are both very expensive, so it wouldn't be cost efficient or logical to add them to the pills. Sure, there have been perhaps 2 pills found with cocaine in them put just about 99% don't have them in there.
I'm sure it's the same way with farms. I bet you 99% of the farmers don't use antifungals to kill mushrooms. It's a possiblity there may be 1 or 2 of those crazy right-wing, anti-drug famers out there with a lot of money who do add anti fungals. My main point is that hardly any farmers do add anything to cow feed to soley stop the growth of psychoactive mushrooms. (I still don't believe that any farmers do)

mjshroomer will back me up on this one..


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: doc34]
    #2652006 - 05/08/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

doc34 said:
variable results with medical and surgical tx. Topical antifungals via GP catheter. Surgery is the best chance of a cure. Surgery entails use of a balloon tipped catheter to ligate the internal carotid artery. No topical treatment necessary if surgery done.




Note that the method of treatment isn't just "lets throw some antifungals in the cow food," they have to use a catheter to deliver the antifungals. A lot of work to stop mushroom growth, don't you think?

And the drugs they mentioned are crazy expensive too:

Fluconazole (Generic) 100 mg 50 $328.86

That's the price for 50 100mg pills... 100mg pills is what they use for treatment in a 100-200lb human. Imagine the amount you'd have to give a 1,000-2,000lb cow.
n o t c o s t e f f i c i e n t


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2652145 - 05/08/04 01:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hardly any ranchers have shrooms growing in their pasture, too. I've seen the powder they use in a barn before. Toxicare or something. & I know it works cuz that field dried up.

You have heard of chocolate chip xtc, right? Aren't the 'chocolate chips' brown tar or have I been misled on that?


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: wandrnshaman]
    #2652238 - 05/08/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I went ahead and made this little "debate" we're having it's own thread so that we didn't destroy the southeast cubensis thread.

As far as pills with herion goes... only one shows up in the database on dancesafe.org.

And as far as the powder you saw, that could be for any medical reason. Cows get sick too, you know. Remember mad cow disease? They also feed cows hormones to make them grow faster and beef them up.


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Anonymous

Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2652693 - 05/08/04 07:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: ]
    #2652722 - 05/08/04 07:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Like I said they "dont just do it for shroomers" or to get rid of the cubes,That is an added feature here in Florida.I honestly have seen no impact on the mushroom availability in these fields that have these treated cows-I still find mushrooms!

I was just laying down the "rumor"That farmers do feed their cattle antifungals--And they do!!

They may not do it just to kill the mushrooms-But they do it!!


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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2652733 - 05/08/04 08:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Notice in that quote that it says "Surgery is the best chance of a cure."

Preventive measure's are feeding these cattle antifungals-Not doing surgery to eliminate mushrooms-lol
Treatment: Topical clotrimazole. Systemic imidazoles i.e.ketoconazole, itraconazole, fluconazole.

Rumor-"I heard that farmers feed their cows antifungals to stop the mushrooms."  WRONG and TRUE at the same time.
WRONG-They do not feed them antifungals for the sole purpose of stopping mushroom growth!
TRUE-Yes they do feed their cows these antifungals!

Better? :cool:


--------------------


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2652928 - 05/08/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

First off, Gumny Dude is absoulutely right about everything he posted here.

While antifungals may be given to cattle it is not intended to be used to kill Psilocybe and Copelandia mushrooms or mushrooms with fruiting bodies growing in manure heaps.

It is used for bacterial fungi which have nothing to do with surface fungi such as manured shrooms etc.

Some fields have and some do not. Ater thirty years of picking in fields, I learned about the constant moving of cattle from pen to pen and from paddock to paddock and yard to yard and from field to field next to a field.. They move where the grass is abundant. Then to another field. When calves are born they are kept in separate fields from the general population so there can be fields of young steers or dairy cattle. kept apart from the main herds. Shrooms rarely grow in those fields when the calves are young.

Also, where cattle tend to piss alot tthe shrooms don't come up until after the cattle are moved to another field. Later they may be brought back into the same field and then there will be shrooms.

I have picked in some fields, where like crops, shrooms grow for several years and then none for a few years and then later they return.

Only nature knows the sequence of their appearance and growth and development. And Salt licks do not effect shrooms since I have picked coastal shrooms (Copelandia spp.) in the Hawaiian Islands on three islands where the fields are sprayed with sea salt-mist so the salt does not affect the shrooms growth or development since they grow in those coastal fields in Hawaii. I found them on Maui, the big Island of Hawaii and on Oahu's north shore and at Kualoa..

And third, farmers do not like someone on their property that they spent their lives working on and have people come in, leave fucking trash, leave gates open so cattle wander out onto highways etc., and bring bottles and other garbage and leave it.

Dogs chasing cattle might be cute to a dogs owner however, it causes probelms if they are milking dairy cattle and are chased by dogs.

Pickers break down fences, are rude when told to leave fields, and sometimes threatened the farmers for l not letting them pick as well as some farmers shooting at pickers.

If it was your land wyou too wounld not like people coming on it and trepassing. Esdpecially if you have a family. IT is uour right to tell pickers to leave.

Wake up people. Your fucking a farmers right to do what he does causes shit to happen to innocent pickers who really are interested in learning about the shrooms and their speciel powers.

Renmember in Florida, it was a deputy sheriff who murdered two shroom pickers after telling them never to come back to the field where he caught them on several ocassions.

He would have gotten away with it if a second deputy sheriff hadn't just been happening to drive down the road and see him murder the two shroomers with bullets to their backs, They were running while handcuffed behind their backs and he shot them both in the back, killing them.

Of course there was the shroomer who died while shrooming in Florida who drank too much wine from his Bota and died shroomed out with his face suffocating him face down in the swamp. OF course that has nothing to do with the above, but there are dangers to picking shrooms in the south.

mj

These not factual urban myths and legends are getting disgusting here.

have a shroomy day.

Thanks for clearing them up on that Gumby Dude.

mj


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Anonymous

Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2655056 - 05/09/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

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OfflineTransplant
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Gumby]
    #2663009 - 05/11/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Consider salt lick effects?


--------------------
Will Screw For Shrooms


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OfflineTransplant
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Re: Post Your Southeast Cubensis Findings [Re: Transplant]
    #2663016 - 05/11/04 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I see MJ already addressed it.


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Will Screw For Shrooms


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