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OfflinePTreeDish
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Tracking and Labeling Test Grows
    #26506858 - 02/27/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

How do folks label their grows from initial agar to transfer to grain spawn master to grain spawn transfer to multiple tubs (for example).

Based on what I see, folks start by labeling their initial culture with something like:
Sp. / Variety / Date (ex: PE 12/25)

Then each transfer is labeled to denote the transfer number:
Sp.  / Variety / T[#] / Data (ex. PE 12/25 T1)

Now, let's say I have isolated 3 strains of the same sp. and va.r and I want to grow each one out to see which exhibit the best genetics. How do you label the grain masters, transfers and tubs to track which initial culture yielded the best results?

Is that even worth tracking? Would it be better to just make a clone and master culture slant from one of the fruits and just keep track of everything as a descendant from the master?


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26507109 - 02/27/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



I track and label each culture. When the culture goes to grain/tub, i date and label with the corresponding culture.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish] * 2
    #26507137 - 02/27/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Masking Tape and a Sharpie :shrug:


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26507144 - 02/27/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That's really cool. Sublime or vim or other? :laugh: But seriously, this needs a key otherwise I have no idea what each label or indent in the hierarchy means in your tracking process.

Quote:

Masking Tape and a Sharpie :shrug:



Haha. You know what I mean. :grin:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26507158 - 02/27/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I couldnt help myself :datass:


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26508241 - 02/28/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
That's really cool. Sublime or vim or other? :laugh: But seriously, this needs a key otherwise I have no idea what each label or indent in the hierarchy means in your tracking process




Sublime 2, vestigial appendage from my webapp days, and fair enough! So each indent is a new transfer. Starting from germ plate eg. ACamb 5 (Albino Cambodian variety), from that particular plate i took three transfers. ACamb 5-1 is the 5th germ plate, first transfer. ACamb 5-3 is the 5th germ plate, third transfer. AC is an Agar Clone, FC is Fruit Clone.

Does that clear things up? The other stuff is just general notes i keep.


Edited by MLPismyOPSEC (02/28/20 01:56 PM)


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26512673 - 03/02/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Def. this helps. Mind if I ask clarifying questions? When you say "germ plate" - do you mean initial culture from master slant, spores or syringe or clone, etc? Does TRASH mean you ultimately threw it away? You have APE 1 Trash and ACamb 5 Trash as top-level, presumably first gen cultures. But if that were true, doesn't the 5 in ACamb 5 mean that its your fifth germ plate? Does that mean somewhere else in your list, you have ACamb 1-4 as other top-level items?

So let me try and go through one of your examples and you can help me understand it better. I'll use the APE 1 in your screenshot as an example:

* APE 1 Trash (means first germ plate for APE species. Ended up being trashed)
  * 1-AC1 Grain (you transferred a colony from germ plate and made grain master)
    * 1-AC1-1 (you did first g2g from master to new grain)
    * 1-AC1-1-1 (i'm lost here as well as what is below it)

Appreciate ya!


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26516298 - 03/04/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah i suppose seeing the fully nested version is a little less clear than i thought!

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
    * ACamb 1 These four would be the four original plates i swabbed with spores. Any nested child plate from here is a transfer from the parent.
    * ACamb 2
    * ACamb 3
    *    ACamb 3-1 These three would be transfers from plate ACamb 3
    *    ACamb 3-2
    *    ACamb 3-3
    * ACamb 4

    * APE 1 Trash (means first germ plate for APE species. Ended up being trashed) Correct, that was the first plate i swabbed with spores.
    * 1-AC1 Grain (you transferred a colony from germ plate and made grain master) Yes and yes, with an additional level of complication. APE 1 plate started pinning on the agar, so i nabbed a pin and put that to a plate. That plate is now APE 1-AC1. Once that plate became fully colonized, i took one wedge and put it on another plate. That is now APE 1-AC1-1. I also took 4 wedges and put them to grain, because the plate looked clean enough. This is why i marked it GRAIN, so that i could follow up with any fruit clones.
    * 1-AC1-1 (you did first g2g from master to new grain) Negative. One, i don't do g2g and two, this list is strictly for cultures, so expanded grain wouldn't be tracked here. This is the first transfer from the previous agar clone plate. I will modify the next couple entries to clarify.
    * 1-AC1-1-FC1 This entry would mean that i took the culture APE 1-AC1-1 to grain, then spawned it to a tub, and cloned a fruit, labeling that fruit clone FC1. If i took more than one clone, i would increment the number accordingly.
    * 1-AC1-1
    * 1-AC1-2 These three would be three separate transfers from the AC1 plate.
    * 1-AC1-3





Edited by MLPismyOPSEC (03/04/20 11:10 AM)


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26516332 - 03/04/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That's super helpful - thanks for sharing your system. I guess I'd follow up with another question that I've run into and that is, what's actually useful to track? Like if you have a good grow, do you need to track as much data or is just important to be able to trace it back to the original slant or culture?

I could see collecting as much data as possible, including growing conditions, if you wanted to do some analysis to see what the most ideal permutations of process and conditions yielded the best results.

Also, the software engineer in me can't help but look at this and go, tracking this looks like a perfect application for a graph-based database. I'm sure commercial microbiology labs already use some sort of barcode system + database + apps to do this, but is there any equivalent open source version for the amateur community? (just thinking out loud)


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26516349 - 03/04/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I mean really, just throw an ID on any plate.  Doesn't need to be a barcode, just a simple number.  Get a spreadsheet or database and you can track whatever data you want against that.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26516359 - 03/04/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Def. like the simplified approach, but I keep coming back to whats worthy of tracking in grows? I don't see a lot of conversation or opinions on this.

For simple grows, what would be some good things to keep track of and on the inverse, for complex grows where you might be growing out many tests of different vars, what would be some good things to track and why?


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26516392 - 03/04/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
That's super helpful - thanks for sharing your system. I guess I'd follow up with another question that I've run into and that is, what's actually useful to track? Like if you have a good grow, do you need to track as much data or is just important to be able to trace it back to the original slant or culture?




Y'know, i'm still working through that as well. I wish this was a bigger discussion, i've been meaning to start a thread just like this one for a while now. Curious to see what other people deem important. This last round of tubs, i wrote down;

Inoculation date
Spawn date
Harvest date
Wet weight (both total and per quart)
Approx dry weight (by multiplying by 0.07 to represent 93% water loss)

Which is all on top of my Master Plate List, clone info (see pic in previous post), random notes like who i got what print from, any variations in technique or setup (although that will probably stop, i think i have the process down).

Jesus CHRIST i would LOVE to use a barcode and handheld scanner to do the documenting for me, but obviously that's cost-prohibitive and unnecessary for a small fry like me. But it would kick some serious ass...


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26516413 - 03/04/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you! I echo your sentiments and fully support you making that post. Link us to it if you decide to move on it.

Side note, I also keep a rigorous lab journal where I write down everything I do and how I did it, including the humidity / temp. / time. There's def great cloud-based lab notebooks for this, but I enjoy the act of physically writing since I already spend too much time staring at screens as it is.

Quote:

Jesus CHRIST i would LOVE to use a barcode and handheld scanner to do the documenting for me, but obviously that's cost-prohibitive and unnecessary for a small fry like me. But it would kick some serious ass...




Your phone is already a bar code scanner. It's the printing of barcodes, assignment of codes and keeping/managing a database to tie it altogether that I think is the time sink - not necessarily monetarily expensive but overhead for sure.


Edited by PTreeDish (03/04/20 12:30 PM)


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26516419 - 03/04/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Here's an example of what you could track against an individual agar plate:

ID Label Status Start Date End Date Variety Lineage Transfer Generation Age Colonization Time Pour Date Container Formula Notes


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26516425 - 03/04/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

For sure, there's probably even 100 more things you could add to your list. But how do you make use of that information once you have it?


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26516437 - 03/04/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MLPismyOPSEC said:
Quote:

PTreeDish said:
That's super helpful - thanks for sharing your system. I guess I'd follow up with another question that I've run into and that is, what's actually useful to track? Like if you have a good grow, do you need to track as much data or is just important to be able to trace it back to the original slant or culture?




Y'know, i'm still working through that as well. I wish this was a bigger discussion, i've been meaning to start a thread just like this one for a while now. Curious to see what other people deem important. This last round of tubs, i wrote down;

Inoculation date
Spawn date
Harvest date
Wet weight (both total and per quart)
Approx dry weight (by multiplying by 0.07 to represent 93% water loss)

Which is all on top of my Master Plate List, clone info (see pic in previous post), random notes like who i got what print from, any variations in technique or setup (although that will probably stop, i think i have the process down).

Jesus CHRIST i would LOVE to use a barcode and handheld scanner to do the documenting for me, but obviously that's cost-prohibitive and unnecessary for a small fry like me. But it would kick some serious ass...




Barcode generator app, cheep scanner from Amazon and a spreadsheet to keep the codes linked to your database. Also you can get labels that print on laser or ink jet from Amazon or office supply. (I used to do retail.) It is alot easier than it seems.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: PTreeDish]
    #26516587 - 03/04/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PTreeDish said:
For sure, there's probably even 100 more things you could add to your list. But how do you make use of that information once you have it?





Easily?  I mean the whole point is data collection.  Once it is recorded the sky is the limit in how to make use of it.  For instance, if you trace lineage, it is simply a push of the button to instantly produce the family tree.

Your average germination time, colonization time, whatever, is simply either precalculated or a button push away.


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OfflinePTreeDish
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Re: Tracking and Labeling Test Grows [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26517404 - 03/04/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't disagree but wouldn't most of the data only be useful and worth the effort to large cultivators in the effort to eek out additional efficiency and productivity gains?

I'd venture to guess that for most small growers, the effort to track and relate everything - easy as it may be - may end up being more work than the value created by having the data.

Now, if there was a website that allowed the community to track and share all of their data then it becomes even more interesting from a data science perspective. But doubtful that will happen and it'd be difficult to assert the quality of data being shared.


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