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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26505341 - 02/26/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mushroomsee said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Mushroomsee said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Its exponential as i understand it as each time you need double the last time

5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 ....




Damn, so much? It was a faster increase in dose than I thought ..




Just doing the math based on the starting point and 2x needed rule

I cant imagine stomaching those amounts. I would opt for a tryptamine as you would not be ingesting so much




But how long do you have to double the dose? Is there no upper limit where tolerance does not increase anymore?

What do you mean by tryptamine? Do you mean taking DMT instead of mushrooms?




Idk about rhe ceiling

By tryptamine i mean a 4 subtituted analog if psyilocibin like 4-aco-dmt or 4-ho-met, both are theorized to be prodrugs of psilocin like psylocibin. 10mg = aprox 1 gram cubes

Doses are therefore much smaller as you scale up and less stomach trauma


--------------------
Indirect Weighing tek


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26505837 - 02/27/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the answers guys. Interesting discussion.


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26505841 - 02/27/20 03:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Mushroomsee said:
Hello,

I have a question. Me and a friend are discussing whether it would be possible to trip every day for 30 days. The question is, because mushrooms build tolerance, how much would you need to eat each day to keep the same effect, assuming you take 5g of dried on day 1? How much would you need to take on day 2,3,4 .. 20,21 .. etc until day 30?

It may be difficult to eat a lot, and may be unreasonable. But let's play with the idea theoretically. Is there no ceiling where it gives effect despite tolerance? I mean, let's say to exaggerate that you would eat 1kg of mushrooms - can you become so tolerant that not even 1kg of fresh mushrooms will have the effect? I mean 1kg mushroom is extremely much? Can you really build tolerance to such a large intake?




I guess this question keeps getting asked and answered, but here ya go:

In my own experience, starting from baseline and taking fresh mushrooms only as tea, it requires 50% more each successive day until I reach a tolerance plateau.  That comes in around 250g fresh shrooms, after that the dose stays the same for weeks, and months, several to 5 days a week.

So say you start at 50g, the next day would take 75g, then 110, then 170, and finally 250 on the 5th day.  If you take a couple days off drop back to the previous level.  These are for full on trips with OEVs during the comeup and full duration.  YMMV.



PEs get that down to about 150g at plateau, APEs (which I'm starting to grow) might be even better, Pan Cyans as mentioned even more potency.  Potency isn't the only thing of course, you want something that doesn't have any sort of bad effects.  Some people swear by MAOIs but personally I'm cautious and it's easy to grow mass quantities once you learn how.

More to the point though is tripping every day requires some dedication beyond just having the supply. Some sort of reason. I've used them for writing (and fun) and I've used them for research (and fun) into the strange stuff that happens around you when you do this - exploring the multiverse. Try this recent thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25911030/fpart/all/vc/1

Best to just find out what your personal results are, that'd be interesting overall as not enough people have ever done this. :cookiemonster:

thanks Socrateshroom that was a nice callout although the thread did almost have my name on it already :lol: :goodday:




Thanks for the detailed answer PrimalSoup. How many large monotubes of about 70 liters in size do you think would be needed to get a harvest equivalent to 250g fresh mushrooms a day for a month? (7.5kg fresh mushrooms), from monotubes made on rye grain, spawn to bulk substate containing coco coir and verm?


Edited by Mushroomsee (02/27/20 03:35 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26506747 - 02/27/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Dunno, I don't do large monos.  But I do shoeboxes at about 6 qts in a FC and I'm gonna do a bunch of 16 qt bootboxes as mini-monos. These are shoeboxes running spawn:



The shoeboxes take maybe 1-1/2 qt spawn and 3 qts bulk and yield maybe a kg over several flushes.  So I'd need to run 10 of those to get 10 kg which would provide 40 x 250 g doses of tea for a couple months of tripping (as my day job :lol:).  It all depends on BE.  PE is more potent but so far I don't get multiple flushes, I'm working on that.



Better to have more than you need stored away before you start, waiting for more crop when you're heavy into it is not really an option IME. :shrug:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26506756 - 02/27/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Dunno, I don't do large monos.  But I do shoeboxes at about 6 qts in a FC and I'm gonna do a bunch of 16 qt bootboxes as mini-monos. These are shoeboxes running spawn:



The shoeboxes take maybe 1-1/2 qt spawn and 3 qts bulk and yield maybe a kg over several flushes.  So I'd need to run 10 of those to get 10 kg which would provide 40 x 250 g doses of tea for a couple months of tripping (as my day job :lol:).  It all depends on BE.  PE is more potent but so far I don't get multiple flushes, I'm working on that.



Better to have more than you need stored away before you start, waiting for more crop when you're heavy into it is not really an option IME. :shrug:




Yours looks really good. But feels a little too complicated for me :grin: I try to make it as easy as possible for me. Hehe I would like to work with you :lol:

What is BE?
Do you mean 250g of dried or fresh mushrooms?
And is there a difference of 25g dried vs 250g fresh? Or can I use on 25g dried instead of 250g fresh?

Yes it is true, it would have been better ..


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26506774 - 02/27/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

BE Biological Efficiency - determines your yield in mass.  Potency is different.  BE rules if you need a lot but it depends on spawn vigor and freedom from infection of any sort IME.

Methods are all simple really.  Shoeboxes are great if you have trouble with contams - you won't lose a whole mono.

Best advice is grow early, grow often.  You won't get the best results working to a deadline. :awesomenod:

No of course I don't mean 250 g dried that would be insane.  I make it all into acidic tea from fresh fruits and toss it in the freezer until needed.  Drying is inferior IME although of course it works.  Tea from fresh preserves all the actives.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26506813 - 02/27/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Dunno, I don't do large monos.  But I do shoeboxes at about 6 qts in a FC and I'm gonna do a bunch of 16 qt bootboxes as mini-monos. These are shoeboxes running spawn:



The shoeboxes take maybe 1-1/2 qt spawn and 3 qts bulk and yield maybe a kg over several flushes.  So I'd need to run 10 of those to get 10 kg which would provide 40 x 250 g doses of tea for a couple months of tripping (as my day job :lol:).  It all depends on BE.  PE is more potent but so far I don't get multiple flushes, I'm working on that.



Better to have more than you need stored away before you start, waiting for more crop when you're heavy into it is not really an option IME. :shrug:




Yours looks really good. But feels a little too complicated for me :grin: I try to make it as easy as possible for me.
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
BE Biological Efficiency - determines your yield in mass.  Potency is different.  BE rules if you need a lot but it depends on spawn vigor and freedom from infection of any sort IME.

Methods are all simple really.  Shoeboxes are great if you have trouble with contams - you won't lose a whole mono.

Best advice is grow early, grow often.  You won't get the best results working to a deadline. :awesomenod:

No of course I don't mean 250 g dried that would be insane.  I make it all into acidic tea from fresh fruits and toss it in the freezer until needed.  Drying is inferior IME although of course it works.  Tea from fresh preserves all the actives.




Oh I see. I was going to do a monotube with spawn from a rye bag. To bulk substrate on 650g coco coir and 2 quarts vermiculite. What do you think of its BE?

Hehe yeah I thought so :lol:

Which is best if you compare eating 250g fresh versus making tea on 250g fresh? Does eating them have a better effect?

And thank you for all your information. I really appreciate it.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26506869 - 02/27/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Sure you can grow them however works.  BE is not something you can guess, only measure after based on performance.

I would never EAT 250g fresh.  God the misery.  Tea is the only method worth considering.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Invisiblehummingbird

Registered: 06/29/14
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26507418 - 02/27/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It can really vary depending on a few things. If you have decent genetics and somewhat dialed in, you can expect about 1oz dried per quart of grain spawn on the first flush. Pros can pull off 10+oz dried on the first flush alone. If you are new and growing from MS, yields can be all over the place. You might only get an ounce or less on the first flush, with a little less coming in on each of the later flushes. If your genetics and/or conditions aren't very good you might only get a few fruits, or a tub full of contamination.

You can't really have expectations on how many monos you will need for the amount you want if you aren't familiar with the genetics you are using or creating ideal conditions for growing. Then there's the potency thing. A cube might be a cube, but some are crazy at a gram or two dried... and(rarely) some are bunk and won't do anything if you eat 14g dried, so....

Also, since you are asking fresh weights...you usually lose 90% of your weight when you dry your fruits, but that's not really set in stone either.


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Invisiblehummingbird

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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: hummingbird]
    #26507487 - 02/28/20 12:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

My input on tripping for multiple days...

I once tripped for four nights straight, nothing crazy around 3-5g dried a night. By the fourth day I felt somewhat confused and agitated. It kind of felt like a waste tbh, and something inside of me told me I should take a break for awhile...which I did. That's my only experience as far as consecutive days or mushroom trips. I tend to have more focused trips these days, and have found that generally less is more. Everyone is different, but...


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: maniac1886]
    #26507514 - 02/28/20 01:05 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

On the most recent Joe Rogan podcast with Paul Stamets, Paul describes the dangers of the paralysis, and the thought loops. It sounds pretty damned hazardous actually! Say you were outside in cold temperatures, you could,literally die of hypothermia during a bout of paralysis. Other weird repetitive stuff too....

Stay safe people,
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26507602 - 02/28/20 04:53 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Sure you can grow them however works.  BE is not something you can guess, only measure after based on performance.

I would never EAT 250g fresh.  God the misery.  Tea is the only method worth considering.




I have some questions then about tea:

1. How long does the beverage stay potent in the bottle at room temperature? For example, if I travel somewhere and the journey takes a few hours with car before I arrive, will it stay potent thanks to the lemon acid or will it lose potency?

2. How long does it stay potent in the freezer?

3. When you are going to use the drink again after it has been taken out of the freezer, how do you do it? Do you just let it melt at room temperature until it is drinkable? Does it lose any potency during that process?

Thanks again bro


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: hummingbird]
    #26507609 - 02/28/20 04:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hummingbird said:
It can really vary depending on a few things. If you have decent genetics and somewhat dialed in, you can expect about 1oz dried per quart of grain spawn on the first flush. Pros can pull off 10+oz dried on the first flush alone. If you are new and growing from MS, yields can be all over the place. You might only get an ounce or less on the first flush, with a little less coming in on each of the later flushes. If your genetics and/or conditions aren't very good you might only get a few fruits, or a tub full of contamination.

You can't really have expectations on how many monos you will need for the amount you want if you aren't familiar with the genetics you are using or creating ideal conditions for growing. Then there's the potency thing. A cube might be a cube, but some are crazy at a gram or two dried... and(rarely) some are bunk and won't do anything if you eat 14g dried, so....

Also, since you are asking fresh weights...you usually lose 90% of your weight when you dry your fruits, but that's not really set in stone either.




Thanks for the information bro. But about genetics, how do I know what's good? I was going to buy this one:

https://www.elephantos.com/en/smart-shop/mushroom-cultivation/spore-syringes/psilocybe-cubensis-cambodia-spores-syringe.html

Is it good?


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26507613 - 02/28/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
On the most recent Joe Rogan podcast with Paul Stamets, Paul describes the dangers of the paralysis, and the thought loops. It sounds pretty damned hazardous actually! Say you were outside in cold temperatures, you could,literally die of hypothermia during a bout of paralysis. Other weird repetitive stuff too....

Stay safe people,
DJ Ed




What paralysis? I've never heard of this? How/when can you get it?


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26507650 - 02/28/20 05:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It is not from cubensis or pan Cyans; rather it is related to the mushroom that paul Stamets discovered and named after his son: Psilocybe azurescens. So I believe this is a wood lover, but don’t know whether the paralysis phenomenon can be caused by all wood lovers, or just the azurescens.

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlinefootpath
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26507697 - 02/28/20 06:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mushroomsee said:
I have some questions then about tea:

1. How long does the beverage stay potent in the bottle at room temperature? For example, if I travel somewhere and the journey takes a few hours with car before I arrive, will it stay potent thanks to the lemon acid or will it lose potency? It will stay good until it goes rancid - probably 3 or 4 days room temp (never tested that).

2. How long does it stay potent in the freezer? I have some ice cubes that I made in September that are still just as potent as when I put them in there. Took some last night in fact.

3. When you are going to use the drink again after it has been taken out of the freezer, how do you do it? Do you just let it melt at room temperature until it is drinkable? Does it lose any potency during that process? I freeze mine in cubes. Take out a cube or two, put it in a glass, pour hot water over it. If you make a potent extract and reduce your tea well, you can pack quite a punch in one ice cube.





You're basically not going to lose the active compounds so long as they are suspended in water.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26508170 - 02/28/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mushroomsee said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Sure you can grow them however works.  BE is not something you can guess, only measure after based on performance.

I would never EAT 250g fresh.  God the misery.  Tea is the only method worth considering.




I have some questions then about tea:

1. How long does the beverage stay potent in the bottle at room temperature? For example, if I travel somewhere and the journey takes a few hours with car before I arrive, will it stay potent thanks to the lemon acid or will it lose potency?

2. How long does it stay potent in the freezer?

3. When you are going to use the drink again after it has been taken out of the freezer, how do you do it? Do you just let it melt at room temperature until it is drinkable? Does it lose any potency during that process?

Thanks again bro




No idea.  I don't keep it more than an hour at room temp, like to the beach.

Stays potent forever (at least 3 years) if frozen solid.

Microwave or melt it in a pan of hot water.  Shake thoroughly then dispense.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #26508177 - 02/28/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
On the most recent Joe Rogan podcast with Paul Stamets, Paul describes the dangers of the paralysis, and the thought loops. It sounds pretty damned hazardous actually! Say you were outside in cold temperatures, you could,literally die of hypothermia during a bout of paralysis. Other weird repetitive stuff too....

Stay safe people,
DJ Ed




Several threads about wood-lover paralysis problems.  I've had it myself once from a wild patch of Ps. cyanescens.  Not a cube issue though.


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: 30 days of tripping [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26508297 - 02/28/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for all the answers guys, I will try and see how it goes :smile:


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