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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Shooting at Miller brewery
    #26505185 - 02/26/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well it's molson coors now but right down the road from me. Know a lot of people that have or do work there.
Every picture you can see one of the no weapons signs that litter the campus like graffiti. Didn't work well. Mayor trolley-tard Barret is there virtue signalling along with the alderman.

Despite being a gun free zone luckily the shooter didn't pick the buildings with the engineers that give two fucks about the corporate weapons policy. I imagine it would have ended more like the recent Texas church shooting.

What gun law would have stopped today? None.


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:whyyy:


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OfflineBabylonRuleDem
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26505216 - 02/26/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
What gun law would have stopped today? None.




Exactly.

But I'm sure someone will come in and say something to the effect of "if all guns were illegal then there would be no shootings"

Guns laws will not stop anyone who really wants a weapon from getting one. And will definitely not stop criminals from getting them.

This quote sums up my views on this matter:

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” -Robert A. Heinlein

In a sane society these shootings would be a push for safety and education on firearms. And even a push for more responsible adults to obtain concealed carry permits.


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When we all get strange, and we know it, but we're cool with it

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: BabylonRuleDem]
    #26505233 - 02/26/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Permit. Lol here's my concealed carry permit
:flipthebird:  :stonedjerk:


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:whyyy:


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26505292 - 02/26/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

actually if we outlawed guns it would be less likely for this to happen

not that i care


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505321 - 02/26/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It would take a few generations to get rid of all the guns, in america, with the most strict plan. Then we would sacrifice a little bit of safety from each other for no safety from tyranny


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InvisibleLophosaurus
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26505330 - 02/26/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think we should ban guns. I do think we should have some stricter regulations on who can own one. You should have to pass an IQ test, emotional intelligence test, and have an in depth mental health review, and maybe even more tests. Not just for guns either, we need this for voting rights, child birth rights, and driving rights.

They should do "stop and frisk" and large corporations and gatherings!


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #26505496 - 02/26/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

In Canada guns are already pretty restricted but some in the political sphere like to pretend that additional restrictions are the solution to remaining gun crime. But really it has more to do with smuggling and gangs. Specifically with handguns, it is much easier to smuggle them in than to somehow divert legally owned ones. A legal handgun owner in Canada is pretty much just allowed to take it back and forth to the gun range.


Don't think anything like our system would ever fly in the US, nor would I presume to say what should be done there in this regard. But in our situation I think the laws work pretty well for what they're designed to do. And I think the fact that there are not already tons of easy to get guns actually reduces demand for them. You're less likely to feel like you need one to potentially use against humans if relatively few other people have them for that purpose.


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Lophosaurus] * 2
    #26505574 - 02/26/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lophosaurus said:
You should have to pass an IQ test, emotional intelligence test, and have an in depth mental health review, and maybe even more tests. Not just for guns either, we need this for voting rights, child birth rights, and driving rights.






I'm going to focus on the driving rights part of this. Because I totally agree a thousand percent. We just give anybody with a semi-halfway-functioning brain a license to drive a 2 ton piece of metal that is designed to travel at high speeds. Shit I don't even think you need a functioning brain. You just need to be able to breathe.

Every calendar year anywhere from 35,000 to 50,000 people are killed in car wrecks on US roads. It's amazing to me. I spent like 7 years of employment as a driver, and dude, the number of absolutely inept and clueless drivers is astounding. It's absurd. I mean you people know. Y'all are on these roads and see these people.

Roads world wide are as much of a death trap as anything. There really should be much tougher and stringent barriers to acquiring a drivers license than we actually have, I fully believe that.


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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Niffla] * 3
    #26505592 - 02/26/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah there is constant carnage on the roads and it's not talked about much because the whole economy centers around automobiles. When it is, they act like the problem is limited to drunk drivers and texters etc. But a lot of it is just sober idiots/assholes not taking the life-and-death responsibility of driving more seriously.


Automation may make it a moot point in the coming years though.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505596 - 02/26/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
actually if we outlawed guns it would be less likely for this to happen

not that i care



Locks only keep honest people out.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: The Influence]
    #26505632 - 02/26/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

doors do

locks actually decrease the chance of theft


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505638 - 02/26/20 10:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Doors and locks deter theft? Maybe you should look into the statistics on burglaries.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: The Influence]
    #26505643 - 02/26/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I broke into unlocked houses :shrug:

maybe you should show me. I'm like 100% sure youre wrong.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505644 - 02/26/20 10:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

And a thin pane of glass is not a lock.

Burglaries usually happen when the resident isnt there.


Edited by cannabinated (02/26/20 10:43 PM)


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505649 - 02/26/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They never know if you have a gun or not. Guns dont deter burglars. Common sense does.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505660 - 02/26/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have only broken into places where I lived and was supposed to be. Usually through a window.


My parents' house was broken into many times until they put bars on the windows and beefed up the locks. Once when my sister was home. Luckily the dude was not a much bigger lowlife, and just told her some bullshit and left.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505668 - 02/26/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
I broke into unlocked houses :shrug:




Well your a stand up citizen for not kicking a door in.

The whole point of what I originally posted was only people that already respect the law will abide by it.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: The Influence]
    #26505671 - 02/26/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I thought you said something about facts?


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505675 - 02/26/20 11:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
I thought you said something about facts?



Never said anything about facts.....just said look up some statistics about break ins. You seem to want to be confrontational and believe that taking guns away from law abiding citizens will stop gun violations.



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Invisiblepivotingpenguin

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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26505677 - 02/26/20 11:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

if a person couldnt get a gun, theyd probably just get a knife, like in London. i would actually rather be shot than stabbed, from what ive heard


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26505678 - 02/26/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

idc


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26505679 - 02/26/20 11:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Fair enough


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26506156 - 02/27/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
It would take a few generations to get rid of all the guns, in america, with the most strict plan. Then we would sacrifice a little bit of safety from each other for no safety from tyranny




I'm not for extreme gun laws by any means, but I never get the argument that guns will somehow protect us from tyranny.

In what scenario are citizens going to outgun a government with tanks, bombers, drones, missiles and warships? Even most local PD has armored vehicles and are equipped to handle just about any armed militia. Sure you might be able to get off some counter fire and take down a few G-men but good luck wining any kind of war on a tyrannical world superpower government.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: audiophoenix]
    #26506167 - 02/27/20 09:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Tupac shot the cops and it was legal :shrug:

You dont wanna shoot cops bro?

srsly tho it does create a buffer between you and tyranny as long as there are a sufficient amount of other rebels


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26506178 - 02/27/20 09:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Wasn't that an off-duty officer? I'm not really familiar with that. I just know that even in extreme situation like the Waco siege it was futile in the end. All it did was force the ATF to escalate.

I think a better argument is protecting yourself in the event that there's some natural disaster or social collapse, you should be armed and ready to protect yourself and defend your family and life.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: audiophoenix]
    #26506184 - 02/27/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

nature can be tyrannical

but yeah really any societal collapse type of deal would warrant the open carry of guns

not today tho, especially in major city centers, theres cops errywhere.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26506204 - 02/27/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

but Why not outlaw assault rifles? How are ASSAULT rifles for self-DEFENSE?
How many people would the Vegas guy kill if all he had were pistols?

And why not limit the number of guns? If you can’t defend yourself with 3 guns, will 3 more really help?

Because the NRA is playing you Republicans for suckers. That’s why rifles are expensive and handguns have a million configurations. You keep giving them cash, feeling free when you’re really a servant of Big Guns.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26506382 - 02/27/20 11:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You know my opinion on gun laws, I stopped giving a fuck a few years ago, if there's no metal detector where I'm headed, I have a gun.  My life is worth going to prison for a few years and being a felon versus getting murdered by some faggy 17 year old that got rejected all his life.

I just bought a S&W shield recently because carrying a Glock 19 with an RMR isn't always possible, the shield fits in your pocket thing is cool.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114]
    #26506384 - 02/27/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
but Why not outlaw assault rifles? How are ASSAULT rifles for self-DEFENSE?
How many people would the Vegas guy kill if all he had were pistols?

And why not limit the number of guns? If you can’t defend yourself with 3 guns, will 3 more really help?

Because the NRA is playing you Republicans for suckers. That’s why rifles are expensive and handguns have a million configurations. You keep giving them cash, feeling free when you’re really a servant of Big Guns.



You do not understand that the second amendment isn't about self defense.  It's about shooting tyrants in the face.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506390 - 02/27/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
but Why not outlaw assault rifles? How are ASSAULT rifles for self-DEFENSE?
How many people would the Vegas guy kill if all he had were pistols?

And why not limit the number of guns? If you can’t defend yourself with 3 guns, will 3 more really help?

Because the NRA is playing you Republicans for suckers. That’s why rifles are expensive and handguns have a million configurations. You keep giving them cash, feeling free when you’re really a servant of Big Guns.



You do not understand that the second amendment isn't about self defense.  It's about shooting tyrants in the face.




Ok let’s see.

You have:
Assault rifles
Hunting rifles
Handguns
Granades?

They have:
Lasers that can shoot you from space.
Drones with missile capacity.
Tanks, jets, rockets.
Everything you have x1000


How are you gonna defend yourself against a modern govt using a gun?


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114] * 3
    #26506396 - 02/27/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Enlighten us how America won the war in the middle East lol.


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OfflineMOONisAtruffle
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #26506421 - 02/27/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

oh you silly americans and your guns. The problem does not lie with the laws or guns you are all fucked in the head collectively as a nation. Nowhere in the world there are so many mass shooting as in the usa. That is true that crazy will find a way to kill with or without guns but there is no way you could kill 20 people with a knife in one day, you`d need to be Chuck Noriss or smth. You need to get your shit together and get rid of the reptilians controlling your goverment, selling you war as a fight for your freedom, feeding you fake foods and happy pils for every time you feel sad. How many of these shooters are medicated? If you have depresion or anxiety you should not take pills you should change the things in your life that make you feel anxious or depressed.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: MOONisAtruffle]
    #26506429 - 02/27/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Pff yeah, Iraq is the “winner”. They totally defended themselves and their oil from the US army. They didn’t get killed left and right, their cities bombed and their kids subjected to a horrific life for generations.

Thank god Iraq has a second amendment, right?
Quote:

After the toppling of Saddam Hussein in 2003, illegal weapons trade flourished across the country. Looted guns from ransacked police stations and military bases were sold in streets and public areas to residents seeking to protect themselves in a state that was largely lawless.

The authorities have since been battling to curb illegal weapon sales and the government has stepped up efforts to control gun ownership through regulation.




Otherwise, Iraq would have never defeated the US army:rofl2:


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: MOONisAtruffle]
    #26506461 - 02/27/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MOONisAtruffle said:
oh you silly americans and your guns. The problem does not lie with the laws or guns you are all fucked in the head collectively as a nation. Nowhere in the world there are so many mass shooting as in the usa. That is true that crazy will find a way to kill with or without guns but there is no way you could kill 20 people with a knife in one day, you`d need to be Chuck Noriss or smth. You need to get your shit together and get rid of the reptilians controlling your goverment, selling you war as a fight for your freedom, feeding you fake foods and happy pils for every time you feel sad. How many of these shooters are medicated? If you have depresion or anxiety you should not take pills you should change the things in your life that make you feel anxious or depressed.




As usual it's more nuanced than that.

A majority of mass shooters were not being medicated. This is a Joe Roganism that keeps being repeated. Somehow linking mass shootings to psychotropic medications which is not supported by evidence or even has any meaningful correlation.

The problem does not lie entirely with the gun laws, but I think it has something to do with it and there's many other factors. The main issue is that everyone has their stance as to why it happens and people have a tendency to oversimplify the problem.

I think a major source of the problem is simply the way we've structured our society and the ability for some people to go years without normal human interactions. It's too easy for people to get lost in the weeds without any real connections to other human beings. I don't have much more than my own intuition to validate this claim I'm making here but I think most people would agree that this type of society we live in isn't ideal for creating well balanced and empathetic human beings.

There's probably a very long list of potential problems and reason why it happens in America more than anywhere else.

There are many ways however to commit a mass terror attack without guns. Honestly I think it's surprising that it hasn't happened more.

The Bath School disaster remains the largest mass school massacre and it was done with a fert bomb.


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Edited by audiophoenix (02/27/20 12:57 PM)


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OfflineMOONisAtruffle
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: audiophoenix] * 1
    #26506502 - 02/27/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. Maybe I didnt express myself as well because english is not my native language and also i got kind lazy half way through my comment thinking - why even bother, no one cares about my opinion anyway. What I wanted to say is that society based in consumerism will never be healthy. Ones are rich because other are poor, ones are sucsesfull because others are not, Some rule because they oppress others. you cant buy hapiness just like you cant fill the hole in your soul by stuffing your face full of cheeseburgers. It goes a lot deeper than, deeper than gun control. And anti depresants are like puting a bandaid on a bullet wound. Same goes for banning guns, but I think it would make a difference anyway, maybe not immediately but in couple of generations for sure. In EU nobody has a gun, you are either a cop, hunter or a gun nut, if you have gun licence. I literally know nobody that owns a pistol, I know some hunter that have shotguns and rifles but thats all. Sure you can go on a stabing spree but group of people about to be stabbed will easily over power you. Yeah you could build a bomb but there are a lot more things that could go wrong, its not like a proffesional built it. But in a world where you can just go and buy assault rifle in a wallmart shooting 20 people is lot more easy than reserching how to buld a bomb or mastering you machete skills choping watermelons for 6 months every day. One is clear - there are people having the same mental issues all around the world but these mass killing are happening mostly in usa, you guys need to change something and you need to start somewhere, anywhere, couse you cant change a thing by just arguing about it. Be safe.


Edited by MOONisAtruffle (02/27/20 01:26 PM)


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: audiophoenix] * 2
    #26506580 - 02/27/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

More guns means guns are more easily available and that more people have guns. People who have guns shoot them, bullets come out of the hollow end fly distances and make holes in things, including people.

It's really as simple as cause and effect.

Sure there will always be idiots who want to kill people, but grabbing something that's easily available and pulling a little lever is a lot easier and takes a lot less psychological commitment, intelligence and strength than most other ways of killing.

A lot of the deaths we see that are the most tragic are suicides and accidents. Mass shootings make up a tiny proportion of gun deaths and despite being the most broadcast by the media aren't really where the body count is. Handgun owners and their children are the worst effected by gun fatality, ironically. There are many countries where many people own rifles, but the issue is far less pronounced. It's not OG to walk around with a rifle and it's far more difficult to shoot yourself in the head with it or anyone else by accident.

I'm not for complete prohibition, but it appears apparent that anyone who says that having more machines that kill makes everyone safer is just denying simple logic. Reducing the numbers of weapons being sold, increasing the difficulty to obtain weapons and encouraging people away from gun culture helps to reduce these premature death numbers. It's been done. It's proven to work.

But rights and yadayadayada doesn't help. Ideological historical viewpoints set in stone can be a burden. Heck, it's not even fully agreed upon or understood why gun rights exist anymore. Times have changed.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26506616 - 02/27/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
but Why not outlaw assault rifles? How are ASSAULT rifles for self-DEFENSE?
How many people would the Vegas guy kill if all he had were pistols?

And why not limit the number of guns? If you can’t defend yourself with 3 guns, will 3 more really help?

Because the NRA is playing you Republicans for suckers. That’s why rifles are expensive and handguns have a million configurations. You keep giving them cash, feeling free when you’re really a servant of Big Guns.



You do not understand that the second amendment isn't about self defense.  It's about shooting tyrants in the face.




Ok let’s see.

You have:
Assault rifles
Hunting rifles
Handguns
Granades?

They have:
Lasers that can shoot you from space.
Drones with missile capacity.
Tanks, jets, rockets.
Everything you have x1000


How are you gonna defend yourself against a modern govt using a gun?



Airplanes and missiles don't go door to door.
Also, guns are there during the civil unrest period when martial law goes into effect before a full blown war on your own civilians


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26506617 - 02/27/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have no reason to trust the United States Government and give up my rifles or bar other Americans from owning them.  I don't trust any government, I don't care how many dumb fucks go on a rampage or kids die, the 10,000 murders per year by guns in a nation of 320,000,000 is ok with me considering the atrocities tyrannical governments have committed against their people.  Don't want to get murdered in the USA? Carry a fucking gun.  That's what police do, and when some maniac tries stabbing/shooting people to death, who shows up?  Another adult with a gun.  Not interested in depending on others to keep me alive.



With firearms, at least when they come to infringe, Americans can take a few oath breakers out with them.  I hate violent criminals, murderers, and terrorists too, no one is out saying violent mentally ill people should have any weapons.  99.9% of gun owners and people owning sp00ky Ak-47's aren't that at all. 


Technology changes, rights do not.  People on the other side will never understand until it's too late.  Look at Hong Kong.  No thanks.  People died for my rights to own firearms, there's enough of us out there willing to do the same to defend it.




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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506673 - 02/27/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Theres nothing wrong with owning a gun there just should be requirements and they should be in a safe place.

Bernies the only one whos not coming to take ur shit btw :stoned:


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26506717 - 02/27/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Mooting at Shiller brewery. (logical, where are you?)


moot
/mo͞ot/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: mooting
raise (a question or topic) for discussion; suggest (an idea or possibility).


Robert James Shiller (born March 29, 1946) is an American economist (Nobel Laureate in 2013), academic, and best-selling author. As of 2019, he serves as a Sterling Professor of Economics at Yale University and is a fellow at the Yale School of Management's International Center for Finance.


The cyclically adjusted price-to-earnings ratio, commonly known as CAPE, Shiller P/E, or P/E 10 ratio, is a valuation measure usually applied to the US S&P 500 equity market. It is defined as price divided by the average of ten years of earnings (moving average), adjusted for inflation.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506749 - 02/27/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Technology changes, rights do not.  People on the other side will never understand until it's too late.  Look at Hong Kong.  No thanks.  People died for my rights to own firearms, there's enough of us out there willing to do the same to defend it.
[/url]



Of course rights change, how do you think the bill of rights was enacted? what do you think amendments are? There hasn't always been 27 you know. There was an amendment that established prohibition as well. Everything changes.

Hong Kong is a poor example too. That became because the Chinese would not allow Brits to step on Chinese soil so they gave them Honk Kong as a port. Then much later on the Brits gave it back. Of course the people of Hong Kong don't want to be Chinese again, but their history and blood is all Chinese before they got a taste of democracy. Even if every Hong Konger was a fully armed and trained black ops soldier it wouldn't make a difference. They are going up against the largest standing army in the world if they go down that path. Never gonna win by force.

I get you don't want to give up your rifles, there's no reason you should have to. But there's many reasons to restrict weapon proliferation. Knee jerk fear reactions to public attacks with firearms, where many tens of thousands of handguns are sold just exacerbate the issues.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 4
    #26506792 - 02/27/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The Constitution doesn't give people rights, they are just born with them.  The Constitution is a document spelling out the chains on the goverenment, not on people.  So no, rights do not change, you have the same rights I do, just they've been infringed upon by your government, and you are ok with it.

Think about what you just said... Rights change?  Because the government... Says so?


This is why I continue stockpiling weapons.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506800 - 02/27/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Hopefully shit hits the fan so they wouldn't have been purchased in vain :smirk:


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506847 - 02/27/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
The Constitution doesn't give people rights, they are just born with them.  The Constitution is a document spelling out the chains on the goverenment, not on people.  So no, rights do not change, you have the same rights I do, just they've been infringed upon by your government, and you are ok with it.

Think about what you just said... Rights change?  Because the government... Says so?


This is why I continue stockpiling weapons.



How do you know that you ever had any rights? Did God tell you? Or did it come to you in a vision? Or was it a government document?

How do you know what you think you know?

Your stance is one of a religious nature, it is completely supported by blind faith in a fact that you have no rational reason to believe.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26506872 - 02/27/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

No rational reason to believe humans have rights...

Bro, WHAT


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506910 - 02/27/20 05:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506935 - 02/27/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
I have no reason to trust the United States Government and give up my rifles or bar other Americans from owning them.  I don't trust any government, I don't care how many dumb fucks go on a rampage or kids die, the 10,000 murders per year by guns in a nation of 320,000,000 is ok with me considering the atrocities tyrannical governments have committed against their people.  Don't want to get murdered in the USA? Carry a fucking gun.  That's what police do, and when some maniac tries stabbing/shooting people to death, who shows up?  Another adult with a gun.  Not interested in depending on others to keep me alive.



With firearms, at least when they come to infringe, Americans can take a few oath breakers out with them.  I hate violent criminals, murderers, and terrorists too, no one is out saying violent mentally ill people should have any weapons.  99.9% of gun owners and people owning sp00ky Ak-47's aren't that at all. 


Technology changes, rights do not.  People on the other side will never understand until it's too late.  Look at Hong Kong.  No thanks.  People died for my rights to own firearms, there's enough of us out there willing to do the same to defend it.








Couldn't agree more


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26506940 - 02/27/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.





A lot of guns are created with materials that occur in nature.  :shrug:


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26506949 - 02/27/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.



Natural right to self defense.  Who are you to tell me what I can and can not own to defend my life? I want an automatic MP5 some day, God Bless America.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26506985 - 02/27/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.



Natural right to self defense.  Who are you to tell me what I can and can not own to defend my life? I want an automatic MP5 some day, God Bless America.



You were just saying that you were born with the right to own guns, that's very different from the right to defend yourself. I can't tell you shit man, but the government who makes the laws can tell you what you can and can't posess... the government of the one you were just blessing, specifically.

I understand this is a religious thing for you, but you need to understand this too. God given right? Right?


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26506996 - 02/27/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.



Natural right to self defense.  Who are you to tell me what I can and can not own to defend my life? I want an automatic MP5 some day, God Bless America.



You were just saying that you were born with the right to own guns, that's very different from the right to defend yourself. I can't tell you shit man, but the government who makes the laws can tell you what you can and can't posess... the government of the one you were just blessing, specifically.

I understand this is a religious thing for you, but you need to understand this too. God given right? Right?



Can you point exactly where I blessed a government?  Fuck the government, what part are you missing here?  I don't give a fuck what laws people in Washington DC pass.

You do have the right to own guns.  You do too, but your government infringes on your rights.  The government tells me I can't possess magic mushrooms too, does it look like I give a fuck?

Free people don't ask for permission.


Where did I say it's religious at all?  I don't believe in gods.

You keep making strange claims, could you at least back up one of them listed above?


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26507039 - 02/27/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
No rational reason to believe guns are innate to humans in nature.

Food, water, shelter, freedom, yeah sure... always been there. But guns are invented, you can't be born with a natural rights for something that does not occur in nature. That's illogical at best.



Natural right to self defense.  Who are you to tell me what I can and can not own to defend my life? I want an automatic MP5 some day, God Bless America.



You were just saying that you were born with the right to own guns, that's very different from the right to defend yourself. I can't tell you shit man, but the government who makes the laws can tell you what you can and can't posess... the government of the one you were just blessing, specifically.

I understand this is a religious thing for you, but you need to understand this too. God given right? Right?



Can you point exactly where I blessed a government?  Fuck the government, what part are you missing here?  I don't give a fuck what laws people in Washington DC pass.

You do have the right to own guns.  You do too, but your government infringes on your rights.  The government tells me I can't possess magic mushrooms too, does it look like I give a fuck?

Free people don't ask for permission.


Where did I say it's religious at all?  I don't believe in gods.

You keep making strange claims, could you at least back up one of them listed above?



Where you say "God Bless America." Literally in the post before I mention you are blessing your country, that's where, specifically.

I understand you don't much like the government, I'm not a huge fan, I don't care much for many laws. Claiming that something that is a law as an innate right, even though that law doesn't deal with anything innate is a logical fallacy though. It's clearly doublethink.

If you were to say "I think guns are fucking awesome and I don't want to give them up ever!" my response would be "okay man, fair enough". It really is fair enough. There's no bullshit right there, and no conversations like these to follow.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26507079 - 02/27/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

God bless America I just say facetiously, you could also argue that god can be whatever you want, even the configuration of the big bang etc.


It's not an "I like guns" argument, it's my natural born right to own an ak-47, it's yours too, you just don't care to exercise that right which is fine.  Like I said, technology changes, rights do not.  Governments and laws don't give you rights, you were already screwed from the gate thinking other men grant you your rights.  Don't do that.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26507098 - 02/27/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MOONisAtruffle said:
oh you silly americans and your guns. The problem does not lie with the laws or guns you are all fucked in the head collectively as a nation.




Right because the overt racism towards people fleeing warzones in the EU shows a rational train of thought. Get off your high horse.

At least in america we have the means to defend ourselves against tyranny.

Quote:

Northerner said:
A lot of the deaths we see that are the most tragic are suicides and accidents. Mass shootings make up a tiny proportion of gun deaths and despite being the most broadcast by the media aren't really where the body count is. Handgun owners and their children are the worst effected by gun fatality, ironically. There are many countries where many people own rifles, but the issue is far less pronounced. It's not OG to walk around with a rifle and it's far more difficult to shoot yourself in the head with it or anyone else by accident.

I'm not for complete prohibition, but it appears apparent that anyone who says that having more machines that kill makes everyone safer is just denying simple logic. Reducing the numbers of weapons being sold, increasing the difficulty to obtain weapons and encouraging people away from gun culture helps to reduce these premature death numbers. It's been done. It's proven to work.

But rights and yadayadayada doesn't help. Ideological historical viewpoints set in stone can be a burden. Heck, it's not even fully agreed upon or understood why gun rights exist anymore. Times have changed.




I agree with most of this, but as has been alluded to... Tighter restrictions on guns, driving rights, birth rights, etc. do not address the core causes of this issue.

Sacrificing some freedom from each other is not worth sacrificing any from tryanny.

The 2nd amendment clearly states why these rights are there. Not for hunting, not for home protection, no other reason. It clearly states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Quote:

Northerner said:
Hong Kong is a poor example too. That became because the Chinese would not allow Brits to step on Chinese soil so they gave them Honk Kong as a port. Then much later on the Brits gave it back. Of course the people of Hong Kong don't want to be Chinese again, but their history and blood is all Chinese before they got a taste of democracy. Even if every Hong Konger was a fully armed and trained black ops soldier it wouldn't make a difference. They are going up against the largest standing army in the world if they go down that path. Never gonna win by force.




The backwoods american colonies defeated the big bad British Empire. Never doubt the size of the fight in the dog.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: BabylonRuleDem]
    #26507161 - 02/27/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
God bless America I just say facetiously, you could also argue that god can be whatever you want, even the configuration of the big bang etc.


It's not an "I like guns" argument, it's my natural born right to own an ak-47, it's yours too, you just don't care to exercise that right which is fine.  Like I said, technology changes, rights do not.  Governments and laws don't give you rights, you were already screwed from the gate thinking other men grant you your rights.  Don't do that.




Fair enough on the God thing, but it's ringing the bell of the core of this rights issue. If the rights aren't just a law, and they don't come from God, where do they come from then?

AK-47s don't grow on trees man. It can't be a natural right to have it. Or do you think it's a natural to posess whatever you want, despite any law, because you want, without consideration for the rest of the society you live in? Fair enough if you do. If you are apart from all that's fine. But what happens when some fuckhead blows up a home made batch of sarin or botulinum just down the road from you, wipes out all life for several square miles? That was his right to be cooking chemical/biological weapons at home. Fucking no one has the right to complain about that, he just should have been more careful.

In common terms rights are legalese for stuff you can't get around in law, they aren't a real thing. Made up stuff like other laws. Whether or not I consider something to be right or wrong is another thing, I commonly follow my own code of conduct rather than the law. That doesn't change reality though. I might think I've got a "right" to whatever. But that's a fantasy unless that's within the law. Most of the world doesn't have the right to posess military grade firearms, because it's illegal, not because the government in their countries is breaking natural order.

Quote:

BabylonRuleDem said:
Quote:

MOONisAtruffle said:
oh you silly americans and your guns. The problem does not lie with the laws or guns you are all fucked in the head collectively as a nation.




Right because the overt racism towards people fleeing warzones in the EU shows a rational train of thought. Get off your high horse.

At least in america we have the means to defend ourselves against tyranny.

Quote:

Northerner said:
A lot of the deaths we see that are the most tragic are suicides and accidents. Mass shootings make up a tiny proportion of gun deaths and despite being the most broadcast by the media aren't really where the body count is. Handgun owners and their children are the worst effected by gun fatality, ironically. There are many countries where many people own rifles, but the issue is far less pronounced. It's not OG to walk around with a rifle and it's far more difficult to shoot yourself in the head with it or anyone else by accident.

I'm not for complete prohibition, but it appears apparent that anyone who says that having more machines that kill makes everyone safer is just denying simple logic. Reducing the numbers of weapons being sold, increasing the difficulty to obtain weapons and encouraging people away from gun culture helps to reduce these premature death numbers. It's been done. It's proven to work.

But rights and yadayadayada doesn't help. Ideological historical viewpoints set in stone can be a burden. Heck, it's not even fully agreed upon or understood why gun rights exist anymore. Times have changed.




I agree with most of this, but as has been alluded to... Tighter restrictions on guns, driving rights, birth rights, etc. do not address the core causes of this issue.

Sacrificing some freedom from each other is not worth sacrificing any from tryanny.

The 2nd amendment clearly states why these rights are there. Not for hunting, not for home protection, no other reason. It clearly states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Quote:

Northerner said:
Hong Kong is a poor example too. That became because the Chinese would not allow Brits to step on Chinese soil so they gave them Honk Kong as a port. Then much later on the Brits gave it back. Of course the people of Hong Kong don't want to be Chinese again, but their history and blood is all Chinese before they got a taste of democracy. Even if every Hong Konger was a fully armed and trained black ops soldier it wouldn't make a difference. They are going up against the largest standing army in the world if they go down that path. Never gonna win by force.




The backwoods american colonies defeated the big bad British Empire. Never doubt the size of the fight in the dog.



The core issues, social division, inequality, social isolation, cultural breakdown... so hard to address without pushing all the bullshit politics off the table. It's hard times hey.

But in terms of harm minimisation, where do you draw the line? Maybe laws invested 300 years ago aren't specifically appropriate for a modern world. I dunno. Just pointing out that no where else in the first world has the same issue arising from these historic bills. No country in it's right mind would attempt a ground assault on the US, that would require the armed citizens to rise to her defence. It's a preposterous notion. Maybe the 2nd is being abused to the detriment of society.

There is no way in the world that Hong Kong can resist China by force either. They aren't on the other side of the world and the only way to get there is months long voyage in wooden ships. Beijing could storm Hong Kong and take her in less than a week. The international fallout is what stops them. It may come to it yet though. Hong Kong will call for help when the pressure becomes too much... we will see if anyone goes running to help. I suspect not. Mostly it'll just be news as the poor bastards get murdered and assimilated.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26507254 - 02/27/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I can not change the mind of someone who thinks their rights were granted to them by other human beings.  This is the saddest part of the conversation, understanding that you think other men and women give you rights, pathetic.  Please, reevaluate this thought process.  Thank goodness I live in the USA.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26507273 - 02/27/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Laws and the constitution exist independently of any humans and (are supposed to) apply to all humans.

The Bible was written by humans too, you know...whether you believe Jesus was the son of god or not, humans wrote the text.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114]
    #26507320 - 02/27/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
I can not change the mind of someone who thinks their rights were granted to them by other human beings.  This is the saddest part of the conversation, understanding that you think other men and women give you rights, pathetic.  Please, reevaluate this thought process.  Thank goodness I live in the USA.



I don't have any "rights" as I live in Australia. I also am not exposed to a society that's tearing itself apart at the seams because of ideologies.

Low crime, free healthcare, excellent social services, inequality is not too bad. It's a pretty good place to be. No ideological rights though, not from humans, not from God, none.

Democracy, rights, ideologies... those which you have or perceive to be true and correct are not universal. Your paradigm does not apply universally. Pretty shocking hey.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26507325 - 02/27/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

PreparationH said:
I can not change the mind of someone who thinks their rights were granted to them by other human beings.  This is the saddest part of the conversation, understanding that you think other men and women give you rights, pathetic.  Please, reevaluate this thought process.  Thank goodness I live in the USA.



I don't have any "rights" as I live in Australia.




https://legaldictionary.net/inalienable-rights/

Yea, I get it now, lmfao.

You live in Australia or Saudi Arabia, I am not even sure anymore?

I have never heard someone so proudly exclaim they have no rights.  So sad.





Edited by PreparationH (02/27/20 10:04 PM)


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #26507344 - 02/27/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

lawyers used to duel

we need more of this


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26507408 - 02/27/20 11:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I wholeheartedly agree with preperation H BUT



--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: ichugwindex] * 1
    #26507414 - 02/27/20 11:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry.  It was side tracked due to some Australian dude that thinks human beings get rights granted to them by retards holding political office.  Sad.





Gotta pump those numbers up.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated] * 2
    #26507442 - 02/27/20 11:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PreparationH said:
https://legaldictionary.net/inalienable-rights/

Yea, I get it now, lmfao.

You live in Australia or Saudi Arabia, I am not even sure anymore?

I have never heard someone so proudly exclaim they have no rights.  So sad.




I'm just stating facts man. I live in a different system that does not have a bill of rights, and it works just fine. In fact it's enviable for much of the world.

Paradigm busting shit hey? (or are you just refusing to even entertain the notion of this as sane?)

When I first understood that I don't have "rights" per se I was a bit shocked as US constitution is talked about so much, and to find that Australian constitution does not contain these clauses was a worry. When I stopped to think about it it became clear. Why would I think that a bill of rights is so important? What do I miss by not having it? The law in my country is reasonably just and there isn't mass incarceration. I'm well protected. I have excellent health care. I have excellent social services. I live in a stable society with reasonably low inequity.

Why do I need a bill of rights when my interests are already protected very well under law? To what end?

The US way is not the way, it's just a way. Considering the chronic social issues the US is facing it might not even be considered a very good way. 

Sooooo... if ideological tenants would be set aside so things could be made to be good, would you be prepared to change a system that is clearly not working and implement a system that does work? Or would you rather cling to those historic ideas as inalienable whilst stockpiling weapons? Judging by our conversation I suspect the latter.

You've got your rights, and the bodycount to go with em. Irony.

Anyhow, I'm gonna leave it here so not derail the thread any further.

Peace out  :peace:


--------------------
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26507447 - 02/28/20 12:01 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

ur country is tiny


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated]
    #26507450 - 02/28/20 12:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

24 million vs 320 million.  Guy thinks we all live in some shit hole like Chicago, typical.


His government works for him.... for now... Lol, so confused.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: PreparationH]
    #26507451 - 02/28/20 12:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I know there's a lot of people out there, I've lived in many different countries. I'm not naive to how different things can be.


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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26507454 - 02/28/20 12:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Guns saved the world from muscle tards ruling the world. It's no coincidence that the most human progress has happened since guns became mainstream historically. Do we really want to go back to the time of muscle bound retards running the world? Just everyone wiping their ass with their left hand and seeing who can do the most reps?


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


Edited by ichugwindex (02/28/20 12:14 AM)


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26507468 - 02/28/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Well it's molson coors now but right down the road from me. Know a lot of people that have or do work there.
Every picture you can see one of the no weapons signs that litter the campus like graffiti. Didn't work well. Mayor trolley-tard Barret is there virtue signalling along with the alderman.

Despite being a gun free zone luckily the shooter didn't pick the buildings with the engineers that give two fucks about the corporate weapons policy. I imagine it would have ended more like the recent Texas church shooting.

What gun law would have stopped today? None.




There was a mass shooting in my community as well.

We could abolish the 2nd Amendment with a new amendment, start removing all guns from society and completely ban their sell for any purpose. In a couple decades mass shootings would be eliminated.

I’m not even saying I support that but any type of gun reform plan that doesn’t address the 2nd Amendment is a joke.

I think we need to disarm the government before we start worrying about citizens. Obviously the number one mass murderer is the US Military.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: ichugwindex]
    #26507476 - 02/28/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ichugwindex said:
Guns saved the world from muscle tards ruling the world. It's no coincidence that the most human progress has happened since guns became mainstream historically. Do we really want to go back to the time of muscle bound retards running the world? Just everyone wiping their ass with their left hand and seeing who can do the most reps?




There’s a good case to be made for gun control for men only.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #26507597 - 02/28/20 04:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Americans are brainwashed that these documents enumerate rights rather than grant them. Unfortunately if you have a ruler they're giving you rights because they can easily take them away. If you didn't have a ruler over you then your rights would be inherent.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26507606 - 02/28/20 04:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The drug laws in your country are even more fucked than ours though. I support more gun control measures, but the 2nd amendment is there for a reason, and the right to bear arms is interwoven into the very fabric of our society. That can’t be changed at this point. We can make it harder to get them, easier to take them from troubled individuals, but we can’t get rid of them. As some have alluded to, it’s not just the availability of guns leading to mass shootings here. Our society is fucked up, and we’re not ready to take a look at that & think hmmm, maybe it’s time to switch some things up. And it’s not just the shootings. There’s the opioid epidemic, the spike in meth abuse, suicide epidemic, people lost in social media, etc.... a lot of symptoms of this societal malaise.

The mass shootings get all the coverage, but there are more shootings related to other crime every day that won’t be stopped by gun laws. Won’t be, cause the guns weren’t legally obtained to begin with. They’re obtained via the black market by groups that are the black market. There are shootings every day in the city I live in. Shootings in my neck of the woods in this city. You can hear the shots at night. Assault rifles & handguns. None of which were obtained with loop holes. They were obtained on the streets, and will still be available on the streets if guns are banned. People say you don’t need them for self-defense, but store owners around here frequently thwart armed robbery attempts by pulling out their own guns & shooting back. And yes that’s necessary. They’re not just defending their livelihoods. They’re defending their lives, cause the people robbing will shoot the employees & owners of these stores just because they can. Doesn’t matter if the folks give up all the cash or not. Might be hard for someone that doesn’t live in a country where that happens to understand. But it happens every day here.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26507669 - 02/28/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah the drug laws are insane here. Best not to get caught.

I lived in Johannesburg for lots of years from the mid 90s forwards. I'm no stranger to violence. Around those times the murder rate was shocking. Lots of intense senseless violence, home invasions, car jacking, robbery, the usual. But they bought the guns off the streets, de-escalated the police and judiciary, people got tired of the fight and things chilled out. Slowly but surely. They'll have bad times again yet but hopefully not again like that.

Talking to you and so many folks on here and on other common interest forums I feel for my US cousins. I guess change comes slowly though and I think things are probably going to get worse before they get better. Hopefully the lowest point does not scar too deeply or it could take more than a generation to heal from.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26507710 - 02/28/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
Our society is fucked up, and we’re not ready to take a look at that & think hmmm, maybe it’s time to switch some things up. And it’s not just the shootings. There’s the opioid epidemic, the spike in meth abuse, suicide epidemic, people lost in social media, etc.... a lot of symptoms of this societal malaise.






Canada has all that shit too, but far less mass shootings. Every western country has those problems, its only america with the mass shootings.

Quote:

Dark_Star said:

The mass shootings get all the coverage, but there are more shootings related to other crime every day that won’t be stopped by gun laws. Won’t be, cause the guns weren’t legally obtained to begin with. They’re obtained via the black market by groups that are the black market. There are shootings every day in the city I live in. Shootings in my neck of the woods in this city. You can hear the shots at night. Assault rifles & handguns. None of which were obtained with loop holes. They were obtained on the streets, and will still be available on the streets if guns are banned.




That is where American logic falls off. In a country with gun control, notice I said country, that's the only way it works, an illegal handgun costs a small fortune. That limits illegal guns to criminals who make their money in the sale of illegal drugs. Your average street thug who robs corner stores cannot afford a gun. I might get jumped by a group, I might get a knife pulled on me, I may get robbed by a junkie with an AIDS filled needle, but there is zero percent chance I'm getting robbed at gunpoint. 

We all understand exactly how things work in America, it's you guys who are massive ignorant of how it works everywhere else. I have never been to Australia but it's a safe bet that if I go visit I won't get shot. Now maybe if I moved to Melbourne and started dealing drugs I would piss off the wrong people and get shot. I don't really care if a gang member shoots another gang member, that happens outside my life sphere. In fact secretly I am like "cool one less dirtbag". It's always like that in canada, never innocent victims, just gang member shooting gang member. What's even bad about that?


--------------------
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: viraldrome]
    #26507730 - 02/28/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The mass shootings make up such a tiny proportion of gun murders even in the US though.


The interesting thing in Canada is that a lot of the roughest parts of the country are actually pretty rural rather than urban. And the roughest cities tend to be smallish ones.


Agree with all of what you said about handgun availability here though.


Edited by psi (02/28/20 07:41 AM)


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: psi] * 1
    #26507876 - 02/28/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
The mass shootings make up such a tiny proportion of gun murders even in the US though.





Exactly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US is gang related.  That is a cultural issue, not a gun issue.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: qman] * 1
    #26507887 - 02/28/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

America would still have a mass murder problem without guns more than all the other first world countries


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26507907 - 02/28/20 10:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Americans are brainwashed that these documents enumerate rights rather than grant them. Unfortunately if you have a ruler they're giving you rights because they can easily take them away. If you didn't have a ruler over you then your rights would be inherent.





Which is why I dont mind the sea of weapons here.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
America would still have a mass murder problem without guns more than all the other first world countries




Idk... the perversion towards guns is often associated with mass casualty. We got a lot of gun nuts




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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #26507910 - 02/28/20 10:09 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If there were no easy way out with guns we'll start seeing people driving trucks into crowds or making bombs.

At least with guns the sane people have a level playing field or opportunity to level the playing field.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: qman]
    #26507914 - 02/28/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psi said:
The mass shootings make up such a tiny proportion of gun murders even in the US though.





Exactly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US is gang related.  That is a cultural issue, not a gun issue.




Not the majority, but yeah, it’s a lot.

60% are suicides.
3% are accidents.
Source:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

As per the CDC, 15-33% are gang-related.
Source:
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6103a2.htm


While googling this I learned that you’re more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object than shot with a rifle. And you’re more likely to be stabbed than shot with a shotgun.
Idk how I feel about guns anymore.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114]
    #26508112 - 02/28/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psi said:
The mass shootings make up such a tiny proportion of gun murders even in the US though.





Exactly, the vast majority of gun violence in the US is gang related.  That is a cultural issue, not a gun issue.




Not the majority, but yeah, it’s a lot.

60% are suicides.
3% are accidents.
Source:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

As per the CDC, 15-33% are gang-related.
Source:
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6103a2.htm


While googling this I learned that you’re more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object than shot with a rifle. And you’re more likely to be stabbed than shot with a shotgun.
Idk how I feel about guns anymore.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

"Gun violence against other persons is most common in poor urban areas and is frequently associated with gang violence...mass shootings in the United States account for only a small fraction of gun-related deaths"

You don't have to die to be negatively affected by a gun shot.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Northerner]
    #26508418 - 02/28/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:

Hong Kong is a poor example too. That became because the Chinese would not allow Brits to step on Chinese soil so they gave them Honk Kong as a port.




This sounds good, but it’s not true.  Hong Kong was one of the spoils of the English-Chinese war, otherwise known as the opium war.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: viraldrome]
    #26508499 - 02/28/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

viraldrome said:
Quote:

Dark_Star said:
Our society is fucked up, and we’re not ready to take a look at that & think hmmm, maybe it’s time to switch some things up. And it’s not just the shootings. There’s the opioid epidemic, the spike in meth abuse, suicide epidemic, people lost in social media, etc.... a lot of symptoms of this societal malaise.






Canada has all that shit too, but far less mass shootings. Every western country has those problems, its only america with the mass shootings.

Quote:

Dark_Star said:

The mass shootings get all the coverage, but there are more shootings related to other crime every day that won’t be stopped by gun laws. Won’t be, cause the guns weren’t legally obtained to begin with. They’re obtained via the black market by groups that are the black market. There are shootings every day in the city I live in. Shootings in my neck of the woods in this city. You can hear the shots at night. Assault rifles & handguns. None of which were obtained with loop holes. They were obtained on the streets, and will still be available on the streets if guns are banned.




That is where American logic falls off. In a country with gun control, notice I said country, that's the only way it works, an illegal handgun costs a small fortune. That limits illegal guns to criminals who make their money in the sale of illegal drugs. Your average street thug who robs corner stores cannot afford a gun. I might get jumped by a group, I might get a knife pulled on me, I may get robbed by a junkie with an AIDS filled needle, but there is zero percent chance I'm getting robbed at gunpoint. 

We all understand exactly how things work in America, it's you guys who are massive ignorant of how it works everywhere else. I have never been to Australia but it's a safe bet that if I go visit I won't get shot. Now maybe if I moved to Melbourne and started dealing drugs I would piss off the wrong people and get shot. I don't really care if a gang member shoots another gang member, that happens outside my life sphere. In fact secretly I am like "cool one less dirtbag". It's always like that in canada, never innocent victims, just gang member shooting gang member. What's even bad about that?




The societal ills are western culture in general. Humanity itself is fucked. And nah, you don’t really know how it really works here. You just think you do. What you said about the cost of black market guns & average street people not being able to afford one is evidence of that. You’re wrong as fuck. They’re not that expensive at all. It’s been a lot of years since I’ve run around in the hood, but when I was I could’ve gotten a little 22 cal handgun for $100. That was just the offer I remember. I never had interest in owning a gun though. And it’s easy to get money when you’re doing dirt. Also :facepalm: re: what you said about gang members shooting gang members. They don’t know how to aim; they just light shit up. A lot of the shooting victims here are people that just happened to get caught in the crossfire. A lot of the victims are kids.....a lot are babies even, caught in the crossfire. So no, it’s not  “cool” that they’re taking each other out. It’s a big fucking problem here.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26508504 - 02/28/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

In Wisconsin a felon can buy a decent double stack handgun for under $500 through any hood drug dealer that also sells guns illegally. And there's a fuckload.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26508543 - 02/28/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
What you said about the cost of black market guns & average street people not being able to afford one is evidence of that. You’re wrong as fuck. They’re not that expensive at all.




He was talking about them being expensive in countries with strong gun control, not the US.

Quote:

In a country with gun control, notice I said country, that's the only way it works, an illegal handgun costs a small fortune.




Quote:

On average, Wilson was receiving $2,500 per gun. Poyser’s two associates were seeking prices in the range of $4,000. In all, the trio made a profit of $1,500 per illegal gun sold, Scratch told court.




https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/02/26/man-pleads-guilty-in-toronto-polices-largest-gun-seizure-he-was-caught-with-60-handguns-smuggled-from-florida.html


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: psi]
    #26508555 - 02/28/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You can’t compare the two though, because there are so many guns here already, and they won’t just go away if they’re banned. Not to mention all the ones that would get smuggled in. The reality is that guns are woven into the fabric of this country. An outright repeal of the 2nd Amendment would spark civil war & the end of this country as we know it.


--------------------


Edited by Dark_Star (02/28/20 04:41 PM)


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26508558 - 02/28/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed, it would never fly in the US, and the number of guns already there is enormous.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26508560 - 02/28/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

No, they were buying them in Florida and bringing them to Canada.


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26508562 - 02/28/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

2,500-4,000 are going to be nice guns, not nickel plated hood shit and if you can’t afford one just do homeboy a favor.

Edit, that looked like I was somehow arguing with you, I’m not.  I agree with what you’re saying you’ll never get rid of guns, good fuckin luck with it.  How hard is it to even build one with what’s available?  The cat’s out of the bag all more laws are going to do is what they always do, cause problems. 

Problem:  people breaking the law
Solution: punish people who obey the law.... makes perfect sense:cookiemonster:



--------------------
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: psi]
    #26508571 - 02/28/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah my dumbass commented on what it said in the link before I read the article:facepalm:


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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Amanita86]
    #26508586 - 02/28/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They have a picture in the article of some of the guns in question. Not sure if they are nice as I know nothing about handguns, but a lot are really weird colors and "look" cheap to my uneducated eye.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Dark_Star] * 2
    #26508593 - 02/28/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Guns are easy to make anyway. Ban guns and a lot of people will be doing side projects with their cnc machines


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:whyyy:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26508622 - 02/28/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If there is already high demand, sure. In a country where few other people carry them, there is not as much reason to.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: psi]
    #26509277 - 02/29/20 06:15 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

https://apple.news/ACTSpJLDXQqeqORO95hqTAA

Quote:

Police officer kills colleague during game of Russian roulette




:rolleyes:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: feldman114]
    #26509395 - 02/29/20 08:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

..:awesketch:


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
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:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: Lophosaurus]
    #26509432 - 02/29/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lophosaurus said:
I don't think we should ban guns. I do think we should have some stricter regulations on who can own one. You should have to pass an IQ test, emotional intelligence test, and have an in depth mental health review, and maybe even more tests. Not just for guns either, we need this for voting rights, child birth rights, and driving rights.

They should do "stop and frisk" and large corporations and gatherings!



I had to have extensive background checks and take classes to get my cc. Also in my state for 30 days after you apply, any police officer in the state can say they dont want you to get a gun for x or y reason and then that would have to go to some board to decide.....I think every state should at least be like mine.


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ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26509440 - 02/29/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That's a retarded system.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509449 - 02/29/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed. But still better than some states that make it stupid easy to get them.


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ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Edited by spirit_shadow (02/29/20 09:11 AM)


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26509461 - 02/29/20 09:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I live in a "shall issue" state.

I think I gave them $50 and they took my picture and a week or so later I had my concealed carry permit.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: mycosis]
    #26509478 - 02/29/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So in your state I would not take the class. Would carry anyway. Would probably have bought my guns off the books and avoided all background checks. Meanwhile all the do goods are waiting and filling the pockets of the real criminals.


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509484 - 02/29/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

There was no class to take.
I literally handed them $50 and they took my picture and a week or so later my concealed carry card came in the mail.

I'm also a respectable citizen who follows the laws and I'm not going to get arrested when I get pulled over and there's an absurd amount of ammunition in my truck. :cookiemonster:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: mycosis]
    #26509495 - 02/29/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Meant to reply to spirit.


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:whyyy:


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509499 - 02/29/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
So in your state I would not take the class. Would carry anyway. Would probably have bought my guns off the books and avoided all background checks. Meanwhile all the do goods are waiting and filling the pockets of the real criminals.



I may or may not have some off the books firearms just in case shit goes to shit. But like mycosis said I'd rather be legal as much as I can :shrug:


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ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26509541 - 02/29/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I guess i don't care. I have felon friends caught with firearms that didn't really get in trouble. I have felony friends raided for drugs and also had guns got under a year + probation.

I don't have a record. I'd get a fine at worst.

Ive also been driving for 16+ years and been pulled over 3 times. Ticketed twice. Never searched once ever.

In my entire life I've never been in a spot where a cop would have ever searched or even asked about a CCW.

I'm taking my chances because security is worth far more than some stupid wrist slap for not paying bureaucrats to militarize the police.

Besides if you ever do get raided you don't want the cop shop knowing you have guns or they'll be breaking down your door with guns in your face.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509542 - 02/29/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

My fucking drivers license has an address 2 moves old. People are government cucks to the max


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509560 - 02/29/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Lol that's awesome

Edit: mine used to be that way but I dont care anymore. I did it by the books just because it really is  beneficial  to me  because  a lot of other states will recognize my cc.


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ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Edited by spirit_shadow (02/29/20 10:28 AM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #26509595 - 02/29/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I can top that.
When I was born parents gave me mom’s last name cause it sounded less Jewish and things were fucky in the USSR. So when I became a dual US citizen, I changed it to my dad’s last name and I have 2 passports now...with 2 different names. I even changed the spelling of my first name (only cause it was originally translated by idiots).

Sometimes I fly with both. Made an opsie once - handed the wrong one to the airport peeps. Spent 4+ hours in holding while police made idiots out of themselves thinking I’m a spy or smth.

The crazy part is, I was able to get my Ukrainian passport renewed at the embassy, even though my legal name changed. And I got my American passport renewed without a red flag going off too. Govt databases aren’t as advanced as they want us to believe...


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Shooting at Miller brewery [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26509607 - 02/29/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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