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spiz
Stranger

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 118
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Should I toss this tub
#26502530 - 02/25/20 02:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is this tub done for?
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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks



Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
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Re: Should I toss this tub [Re: spiz]
#26502554 - 02/25/20 03:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cobweb mold sticks around like Mick Jaggar, no matter what you do. Toss it. Stagnant air breeds molds like this. Make sure your tubs are getting enough fresh air.
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spiz
Stranger

Registered: 05/17/11
Posts: 118
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
WeavieWonder said: Cobweb mold sticks around like Mick Jaggar, no matter what you do. Toss it. Stagnant air breeds molds like this. Make sure your tubs are getting enough fresh air.
I'm waiting for the tub to fully colonize which requires only GE as far as I'm aware?
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Should I toss this tub [Re: spiz]
#26502654 - 02/25/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've beeing doing case and fruit at spawning for years. I believe it's more common than not now.
It eliminates a step of removing tape and adding your fae. I use mp tape two layers on bottom one layer on top.
Fae won't hurt especially with a casing. (I use about a quarts worth from my CV substrate)
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,409
Loc: where?
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That's pin mold not cobweb.
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Puduwoke
mushroom enthusiastic

Registered: 06/25/17
Posts: 1,666
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
filthyknees said: I've beeing doing case and fruit at spawning for years. I believe it's more common than not now.
It eliminates a step of removing tape and adding your fae. I use mp tape two layers on bottom one layer on top.
Fae won't hurt especially with a casing. (I use about a quarts worth from my CV substrate)
When you say case. I guess you mean a psuedo casing with CV?
Have you done it and if so, what's the difference fruiting at spawning without any casing pseudo or not?
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Trade List LAGM2021
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Should I toss this tub [Re: Puduwoke]
#26502671 - 02/25/20 07:07 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure call it pseudo casing. Whatever the word I put a quart of CV on top of the substrate, whatever that's called call it "how monotubs where designed to be made as part of the tek" -- if you read the ohmatic monotubs Tek you will find this to be a part of the tek.
There are huge threads on this. I can summerize whole threads by saying: it never hurts. Some people will insist on saying "it's not needed" but it also HELPS.
It's basic to understand, it creates a microclimate for pins right at the surface. Less worry of or impact by fluctuating rh changes.
Better conditions + less steps. If you have 50 tubs it going to be a bitch and a half to remove 300 pieces of tape and then add fae material to 300 holes, case and fruit at spawning illiminates this.
Plus like I said casing at spawning is a part of the monotub Tek. Meant to be set and forget. No monitoring and putting into fruiting - all time wasters.
Sorry for jacking your thread OP
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
Edited by filthyknees (02/25/20 07:17 AM)
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WeavieWonder
Time Travel Sucks



Registered: 08/18/16
Posts: 1,455
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
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Re: Should I toss this tub [Re: mushboy]
#26502991 - 02/25/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: That's pin mold not cobweb.
Good eye. I did'nt see the little black dots before.
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Puduwoke
mushroom enthusiastic

Registered: 06/25/17
Posts: 1,666
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Quote:
filthyknees said: Sure call it pseudo casing. Whatever the word I put a quart of CV on top of the substrate, whatever that's called call it "how monotubs where designed to be made as part of the tek" -- if you read the ohmatic monotubs Tek you will find this to be a part of the tek.
There are huge threads on this. I can summerize whole threads by saying: it never hurts. Some people will insist on saying "it's not needed" but it also HELPS.
It's basic to understand, it creates a microclimate for pins right at the surface. Less worry of or impact by fluctuating rh changes.
Better conditions + less steps. If you have 50 tubs it going to be a bitch and a half to remove 300 pieces of tape and then add fae material to 300 holes, case and fruit at spawning illiminates this.
Plus like I said casing at spawning is a part of the monotub Tek. Meant to be set and forget. No monitoring and putting into fruiting - all time wasters.
Sorry for jacking your thread OP
Think this is Good info for the OP to hear aswell but I might be wrong.
I agree with everything you said. Except that what I do not understand is..
If you put a "pseudo casing" at spawning and its make of coir. Won't it just colonize a d you won't get pins before you substrate is fully colonized? I do not see how the coir on top will help with microclimate for pinning if its fully colonized.
A "normal casing" which for me is a non-nutrient. We want that so the mycelium WONT colonize it and there for we get all the benefits you're talking about.
Edit: It was my understanding that we put a top layer of coir to protect the grains a bit more. Someone please correct me if this is not right.
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Trade List LAGM2021
Edited by Puduwoke (02/25/20 11:35 AM)
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Should I toss this tub [Re: Puduwoke]
#26503007 - 02/25/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Coir is a non-nutrient
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Coir has nutrients.
Coir top layer doesn't perform exactly like a ph adjusted peat based casing. The coir top layer becomes fully colonized and therefore only serves to protect the grains, once fully colonized the coir top layer becomes the surface of the substrate with no delineation.
Ph adjusted casing is not colonized because it's ph is not within the range that mycelium or other molds generally prefer, it does create a micro climate where the substrate meets the casing with a clearly delineated border. Myc will grow through a ph adjusted casing but it doesn't become colonized, the mycelial filaments reach up between the moist peat and vermiculite to reach the surface.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (02/25/20 12:01 PM)
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Here's a compilation I've been working on all about casing. All TCs.
CV casing very often remain uncolonized as anyone who has experience with them would know with some time.
Far too much misinfo out there. the shroomery though. 
Quote:
filthyknees said:
Casings
Quote:
stareatclouds said: Here's an AA+ tub with half cased:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25192625#25192625
Quote:
stareatclouds said: I don't think a casing layer has to be completely non-nutritious, it's just more beneficial to be. A casing layer provides extra moisture and creates a microclimate to stimulate pinning. I add a layer of my sub on top and fruit at spawning and it's not always eaten up. It's super beneficial for shoebox totes since they're prone to drying out quickly.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25495284#25495284
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stareatclouds said: There's really no reason not to case immediately, in my opinion. It's not like it's a difficult process or has any real downsides. I always put a thin layer of CVG over my shoeboxes and let them go. A casing layer helps with moisture, stimulates pinning, etc.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25238242#25238242
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Pastywhyte said: Casing rarely if ever hurts. I have seen very few cultures that didn’t like a casing. Casing with these is fine, just not a requirement.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26141289#26141289
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Pastywhyte said: First casing layers rock. They are not required the way it is for agaricus, but they do have lots of benefits especially for people in dry or cold regions. Peat is a great casing material but I have a few issues with it. First is that it needs perfect pasteurization and you probably want to buffer it as well. I don’t like having to have a pile of different media to deal with all the time so I no longer use peat to case with. Coir and verm are nearly bulletproof and I already have them on hand for use as bulk media.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25648925#25648925
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Pastywhyte said: Cubes can colonize casing layers just fine.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25396978#25396978
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Pastywhyte said: my old F2 RW clone did terrible in bottles and also did not appreciate uncased bulk.

But spawn it to a mono with a pseudo casing or real casing and it takes right off
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26196379#26196379
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I use coir as a casing
I have also seen limed peat get fully colonized.
Coir as a casing material:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25738419#25738419
Quote:
eatyualive said: For case at spawning, the idea is that it speeds things up quite a bit from spawn to fruit. To me dialing in is just getting things to work in your environment and your variables. The case at spawn method doesn’t need dialing in. You let the mushrooms do their thing and they fruit themselves. Meaning no effort required. Mushrooms are going to fruit when all the variables are right for fruiting. This method requires little to no maintenance.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26301388#26301388
Quote:
LotKid said: I just put a layer of coir/verm on top. I don't think the term "pseudo-casing" works well to describe using coir/verm as a casing. Whether you apply it at spawning or at 100% colonization. I like to apply my CV thick enough that it acts as a casing by providing a humid microclimate at the surface of the substrate.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25576951#25576951
Quote:
LotKid said: IF placed thick enough coir/verm can act as a casing layer by providing a humid microclimate that aides in primordia formation.

But if this top layer is fully colonized before pinning begins then it is no longer acting as a casing layer but more of an extension of the substrate, so to speak.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25577199#25577199
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I've found that casing at spawning works just as well as waiting for full colonization.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26323235#26323235
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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What I said was correct. If the top layer is colonized it is no longer a casing, it becomes the surface of the sub, so it stands to reason that if it (the coir verm top layer) is thick enough and placed just before pinning so that it doesn't colonize then it acts as a casing layer.
The caveat being whether or not it becomes colonized or not. I think that most people's top layers become fully colonized and therefore does not constitute a separate layer from the substrate, it IS the substrate. I mean, it's made out of the exact same material as the sub and is in direct contact with the sub, if it becomes fully colonized it is simply an extension of the substrate.
Quote:
LotKid said: But if this top layer is fully colonized before pinning begins then it is no longer acting as a casing layer but more of an extension of the substrate, so to speak.
Edit* Just to be clear...Much respect, filthy. Your grows are epic.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (02/25/20 01:52 PM)
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Mkay, just wanted to clarify because you said "the top layer gets colonized and therefore only serves to protect the grains" when that is in fact untrue. You didn't say if in your post.
Many well known growers advocate CV casing for this reason as I have shown. I would challenge you to find any tc in the last couple years that says CV works poorly as a casing.
The many quotes proved it and here's a tub from the other day, no more than 1qt of CV casing (call it pseudo casing if you wish) remaining uncolonized and working just fine as a casing material.

This can also be seen in stares literal side by side, even when the casing is "fully colonized" or at least very near to full colonization anyone can see with the naked eye the difference in fruits from one side to the other, and can also see the slight difference in color from left to right. So I cannot agree with you that it's only to "protect grains" when many well known growers have aknowledged it's actually reccomended as a casing.
No knock on you, love seeing you around, just wanted to point out some facts not opinions. I agree if someone doesn't know how to case and cases way too thin, sure it's useless, to anyone who isn't doing it for the first few times it's a no brainier toilet flush simple method when used properly. Later. Gonna stop gunkin up ops thread now. Sowweey.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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