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Anonymous

Creating Life
    #2649926 - 05/07/04 02:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We as human beings have the ability to mate, and create more humans. But do we really have the right too? I would have to say no way in hell do I or any other person have any right whatsoever to decide to give a life and a consiousness to another human being. The fact that "well, if we didn't give birth the human race would die out" should have to be accepted because IT IS NOT our decision.

What do you think?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650071 - 05/07/04 03:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Man, the amount of comedy in this forum as of late is astounding.  Thanks to all of you who have made me laugh.  :thumbup:

I think your point is nonsense.  If people are indeed free, it is in fact no one else but our decision.  Your ethical questions aside, if we we weren't supposed to procreate, then why would we have the ability? 

I also think that most of those with children would probably tell you that having a child was the best thing that ever happened to them.  It may very well be that the only point of life is to create more.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (05/07/04 03:40 PM)


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650082 - 05/07/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just one more thing.  Do you believe you should have the right to prevent people from breeding?

Please don't let me down, I really want to laugh again.  :laugh:


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Creating Life [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2650482 - 05/07/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
Just one more thing.  Do you believe you should have the right to prevent people from breeding?

Please don't let me down, I really want to laugh again.  :laugh:



Well, then we could prevent him from breeding.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650500 - 05/07/04 05:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This is what happens when people eat mushrooms and think about politics.


BTW, you need to try a little harder to make this a little more about Politics, Activism, and/or law.


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Offlinetaco
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650645 - 05/07/04 05:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You know, this is actually a really interesting topic, and while totally non-realistic, it's fun to think about the full ramifications of.

There's really two polar ways to look at it, we have the liberal pro-birth control side, and the conservative, small-government side; I'll leave all the in-betweening up to you guys :P A couple value-judgement definitions, first:

Liberal: person who wants to change things in government.
Conservative: person who does NOT want to change things in government!

I personally think there aren't nearly enough conservatives out there, by that definition..

Liberal: We, as a nation, want to take care of all of our people. Our government should be able to do this, however, our current welfare and Social Security institutions are being horrifically abused in ways that red-headed stepchildren can only dream about. If we want to clean up this nation, it's going to have to start at the birth canal.

The solution: mandated birth control with required permits to reproduce. Potential parents would both be tested for fitness as parents, as defined by a focus group of psychologists (we've got a few bucks to spare if we're willing to go this far with it) who would design a judgement test on basic parenting tenets. I'm not a psychologist, so I can't really give you a sample, but it would only be hard to the extent that about half of all applicants for children would be accepted. The lynchpin in this whole affair will be the males, who would all receive reversible vasectomies at birth, or at a very young age, whenever it's physically possible to do so. Women can rag and all that to their heart's content, but there won't be any guys gettin' them preggers over here. Parents would be required by law to present a valid permit for a child at time of birth, at which point the permit would be taken, and replaced with a Birth Certificate, at which point they mesh nicely into the current system; it's just a little extra step.

Conservative: Nobody has the right to tell me how I can reproduce, and with whom I can reproduce, case closed.

If I really thought that doing this would make the United States a smarter, more capable nation, I would vote for it in a New York minute.


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OnlineLearyfan
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650687 - 05/07/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I really, really wish you had to have a licence to give birth. No licence = mandatory abortion.

Back to the essence with that kid.






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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Life [Re: Learyfan]
    #2650720 - 05/07/04 06:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You wish the government had the power to tell you whether or not you can have a baby?


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2650764 - 05/07/04 06:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

EraserHead said:
We as human beings have the ability to mate, and create more humans. But do we really have the right too? I would have to say no way in hell do I or any other person have any right whatsoever to decide to give a life and a consiousness to another human being. The fact that "well, if we didn't give birth the human race would die out" should have to be accepted because IT IS NOT our decision.

What do you think?




... interesting storey: i told my mom of all people, that i didnt think it was her right to have me... and she told me. that i came to her in a vision and told her to get pregnant. and she claims it was reckognizably me... so i dont know how to argue with her..

but i agree with u.
at the very least i think people are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar to irresponsible. why have a new kid when theres an orphanage full of them? and all the people who cant even support themselves who want/have kids.

birth is essentially forcing life on someone. and now i have to live with it... :wink:


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Creating Life [Re: BleaK]
    #2651201 - 05/07/04 08:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I definitely think some people shouldn't be able to breed. Look at all the fucked up kids and even more screwed up parents. In my opinion at least half the parents I've met shouldn't have had kids and will only serve to weaken society. However actually implementing such a plan wouldn't be realistically possible.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Anonymous

Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2651976 - 05/08/04 01:06 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"I think your point is nonsense. If people are indeed free, it is in fact no one else but our decision. Your ethical questions aside, if we we weren't supposed to procreate, then why would we have the ability?"

HagbardCeline, you're an idiot.

I'm not saying we are or are not supposed to "procreate", I am saying that we do not have the right to make the decision for the child to bring it into this world.


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Anonymous

Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2651980 - 05/08/04 01:08 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"birth is essentially forcing life on someone. and now i have to live with it"

Exactly....fucking christ people....


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Creating Life [Re: Learyfan]
    #2652955 - 05/08/04 11:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Abortion should be legal for the first 57 trimesters.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2653028 - 05/08/04 12:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

HagbardCeline, you're an idiot.

Thanks for clearing that up. It feels hot over here like I've been exposed to some heat source. A flame perhaps?

I'm not saying we are or are not supposed to "procreate", I am saying that we do not have the right to make the decision for the child to bring it into this world.

Since it seems like logic isn't one of your strong-points, I'll help you out on this one.

If no one has the right to make the decision to give birth (which would make it wrong you see), then you are absolutely saying we are not supposed to "procreate" (why exactly are we quoting this word though?).

If this is still too complicated to comprehend, let me know and I'll see if I can dumb-it-down some more.

And you never answered the question. Do you think that should be able to force everyone to stop breeding?
Or should you just try and convince everyone the error of their ways?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OnlineLearyfan
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Re: Creating Life [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2654193 - 05/08/04 07:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
You wish the government had the power to tell you whether or not you can have a baby?




Yes. Just like driving a car.

I'm sick of seeing people who have no business bringing life into this world pumping out a unit every nine months.







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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Creating Life [Re: Learyfan]
    #2654211 - 05/08/04 07:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

How do you propose we implement this plan, forced abortions? Who gets to make the decision for you?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Creating Life [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2654223 - 05/08/04 07:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
How do you propose we implement this plan, forced abortions? Who gets to make the decision for you?



Sounds like he's advocating a plan similar to that of China.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Creating Life [Re: silversoul7]
    #2654265 - 05/08/04 07:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think that he is claiming that being born was a clear violation of my natural rights by my parents; they made me without consulting me, dammit!
:lol:

I assume it's a joke, that we all took too seriously - either that, or EraserHead needs to lay off the shrooms.


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OfflineDigitalDuality
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Re: Creating Life [Re: ]
    #2654427 - 05/08/04 08:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

wow.. and i thought i had ridiculous opinions...


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OfflineAncalagon
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Re: Creating Life [Re: DigitalDuality]
    #2654456 - 05/08/04 08:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, this is wild. I'm wondering if you guys are really thinking this through. Mandatory vasectomies is extremely Orwellian. What determines who is fit to procreate? If monetary status, do you think their are no children being raised extremely well by poor parents and no children being neglected by rich parents? If number of current children, do you think their are no parents with eight children who can raise a ninth better then another couple who will completely fuck up raising an only child? Assuming no mandatory vasectomies, what happens when someone does violate the law? Do you seize the child? What happens when abortion is against someones religious beliefs?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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