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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Mushrooms by country
#26496422 - 02/21/20 04:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just had a look at the actives listed for countries in Asia and Europe here on shroomery. Why are they so incomplete? You could more or less double it for Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Laos isn't even on the list.
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26496635 - 02/21/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
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Loc: Norvegr
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26496680 - 02/21/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosadhu said: Just had a look at the actives listed for countries in Asia and Europe here on shroomery. Why are they so incomplete? You could more or less double it for Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Laos isn't even on the list.
Speaking as a Scandinavian, looking at the listings for Norway and Sweden, the only species I miss is Pluteus salicinus, and perhaps Psilocybe medullosa. There were also 2 finds of P. pelliculosa last year, but I believe there need to be found more of a species in order to call it native.
I'm not sure however if the entry for Gymnopilus sp. is correct, I don't believe we have any active species from that genus growing here. Otherwise I don't think there should be any corrections.
Otherwise I believe the listings are according to registered and confirmed finds, and I think it is usually Alan who manages them.
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OZ Guru
Master Shroomer



Registered: 10/03/19
Posts: 99
Loc: NSW, Aust.
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Anglerfish]
#26497066 - 02/21/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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plus the new OZ ones
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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: OZ Guru]
#26497744 - 02/21/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Gymnopilus junonius grows in Norway. Found it there many times. Not sure whether it's active, but it's there and it's fairly common. Norwegian name is gullbittersopp. G. Luteofolius has been thoroghly documented, big thing on the news couple of years ago. Mycena cyanorrhiza, panaeolus fimicola and olivaceus (not very active, but listed for other countries). Pluteus salicinus, conocybe velutipes, psilocybe fimetaria, pelliculosa and maybe stuntzii. And shouldn't silvatica really be medullosa? Or does both of them grow in Europe now? And at least three of the inocybes; inocybe corydalina var. corydalina, inocybe calimistrata, inocybe haemacta. Not very important species, but listed for other countries. Don't know about Denmark, but p.cyanescens should be on that list. Would be very strange if p.strictipes does grow there as well, but don't know wether it's been documented. And only 5 active species in Sweden?? Come on... That list should be more or less the same as for Norway. Belgium needs at least p.liniformans. Laos needs to be on the list, at least with pan.cyans and rubricaulis. Only 6 species in Thailand and only 4 in Vietnam??? Both can probably be trippled. Hmm... It doesn't say "list over native species", but rather "A list of what Psilocybin Mushrooms that can be found in blablabla area" 😁 And, if you need more than two finds of a species to be listed, why is p.tampanensis listed for Florida and Mississippi where they've only been found once? I agree, though, but as so little is known about many of these mushrooms, it's hard to say where they're native to. Just because a species isn't found in an area before, doesn't mean it isn't native. And, p.cubensis isn't native to cuba, OZ or the US, but kinda have to list it, right?
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26498260 - 02/22/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosadhu said: Gymnopilus junonius grows in Norway. Found it there many times. Not sure whether it's active, but it's there and it's fairly common. Norwegian name is gullbittersopp.
I don't think it is active. I'm not even sure if it is the same species as the active ones found elsewhere, I have no indications that there has been done any DNA work on Norwegian collections of Gymnopilus.
Quote:
G. Luteofolius has been thoroghly documented, big thing on the news couple of years ago. Mycena cyanorrhiza, panaeolus fimicola and olivaceus (not very active, but listed for other countries). Pluteus salicinus, conocybe velutipes, psilocybe fimetaria, pelliculosa and maybe stuntzii. And shouldn't silvatica really be medullosa? Or does both of them grow in Europe now?
The G. luteofolius find from some years back was one of its kind. It was in Northern Norway, in a gigantic pile of wood chips that heated up significantly because of the composting process. I don't believe it has been found anywhere else since that, and I'd find it unlikely that it will. It is not native to Norway, let alone Europe as a whole.
P. fimetaria has been found, but is very rare, according to various credible sources, but there are no official (searchable) registrations of any finds, so it is not known where or when they eventually were found - thus not being properly verifiable - since we don't know that it was identified correctly. I believe DNA sequencing is needed for finds of P. fimetaria.
P. silvatica is apparently an American species, thus the collections found in Europe are likely P. medullosa. Again, there is a substantial amount of remaining DNA work needed for these species.
Mycena cyanorrhiza is not psychoactive, although there have been unsubstantiated rumours of this circulating around the internet.
Do you have any documentation that Conocybe velutipes is active?
Quote:
And at least three of the inocybes; inocybe corydalina var. corydalina, inocybe calimistrata, inocybe haemacta. Not very important species, but listed for other countries.
I. calamistrata is not psychoactive despite its green hues, but it is toxic, containing muscarine. Inocybe haemacta has not been found in Norway, at least not to my knowledge. I think the only finds in Scandinavia are from Denmark and the south of Sweden.
The bottom line here is that I think a species should be considered native to a country before it is put on the occurrence list, and if it is very rare, or it has only been found once or twice, there should be a link to registrations of these finds accompanying the list entry.
Sadly there is very little interest in psychoactive mushrooms in Norway - speaking from a mycological viewpoint - few if any mycologists are actively searching for rare or unknown species, and most of the rare finds are chance encounters and rarely followed up. Only if the ban is lifted (possession is illegal of course) there might be more research done, but if this will happen in my lifetime I am not so sure of.
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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Anglerfish]
#26499083 - 02/22/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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1: Not much work has been done on g.junionis. I don't think they've done DNA sequencing on every specimen in every country, and I don't think it's any different from the ones found in Sweden. Why list it for Sweden and not for Norway? Even if it doesn't contain psilocybin, it may have gymnopilin. Never found any bruising on any specimens from Scandinavia, but it's on the Danish and Swedish list none the less. 2: G.luteofolius has been recorded again. Once more from Tromsø and once from Oslo. They picked 6000 specimens in Tromsø that first year, those would leave quite a bit of spores... Have anyone ever found 6000 specimens of p.tampanensis in the wild? No. Never. Yet, it's on the list, despite only found twice. In history. 3: I've found p.fimetaria three times in Norway. It's very rare, but it's very rare everywhere, yet listed for other countries. But I find no documentation of it being found in Norway. 4: No, I do not have any documentation on c.velutipes' alkaloid content. Do you have one that says it's inactive? And why qawould it be needed to pit it on the Norwegian actives list? It's listed for other countries, as c.kuehneriana (this list really needs an update), so why does one need to find more documentation to put this species on the Norwegian list? Never heard of it being inactive. If that's the case, why is it listed for other countries? 5: M.cyanorrhiza inactive? Not heard of this before either. So people saying they've detected psilocybin in that species aren't telling the truth? And those who says they've eating it are either are either experiencing a very strong placebo effect or just lying? Very possible, but would like to see some documentation on it. 6: I've seen tests confirming psilocybin in I.calamistrata, but I've seen false positives in other mushrooms as well. Is there now no doubt as to their activity? 7: Serbica is on the list. Not documented any better from Norway than pelliculosa. Yet, pelliculosa isn't on the list. 8: Stuntzii is documented. Again, being native isn't a prerequisite for being on this list. Nor is being found only once or twice. Unless special rules applies for the Norwegian list. 9: Fimicola and olivaceus? These are VERY well documented and is listed for other countries. Does special rules apply here? Grønnpukla trevlesopp, I.corydalina? 10: Pholiotina smithii has only been documented once from Norway. But it's on the list. Why not put g.luteofolius on it? They've found quite a few THOUSAND specimens more of that species. 12: And Asia? There are so much documentation on so many species, yet none has found it's way to this list. Korea, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam are all far from complete. Probably goes for the rest of Asia and probably many other countries as well. This list needs an update. Seems like it hasn't been updated for many years.
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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26499165 - 02/22/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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And where did those g.luteofolius spores come from? From other mushrooms growing in the viciny the year before, that's where 😀 I find it hard to believe so extremely many spores was blowing 7000km across a continent and an ocean only to land in one spot to fruit in the thousands. It might be a natural phenomenon I'm not aware of, but then wouldn't this apply for other species? And wouldn't it grow other places if that was the case?
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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26499247 - 02/22/20 11:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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The local mushroom mob (Tromsø soppforening) says they believe that g.luteofolius was already established in the area prior to 2012. The first find was in a pile of wood chips in 2013. They found 4 piles, 8km between the southernmost pile to the northernmost. They found it again in 2014. If they've found it again after that, I do not know. But, it's a species you can find in Norway given the right conditions as it's established there.
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shroomreggin
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Re: Mushrooms by country [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26499336 - 02/23/20 01:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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It should be updated for Baltic states.
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