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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Ethanol extraction
    #26494605 - 02/20/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Is it possible to extract active alkaloids in 190 prof alcohol? I am getting mixed opinions on the solubility of actives in ethanol. Some say it's highly soluble and others say barely. I heard that making an alcohol extract can make body load and stomach upset more manageable plus I just thought it'd be cool to turn a ounce into a few ML's...


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26494607 - 02/20/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think making strong tea and then freezing it into ice cubes is the most efficient.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26494624 - 02/20/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
I think making strong tea and then freezing it into ice cubes is the most efficient.




But I heard that an ethanol extraction can avoid many of the nasties that contribute to stomach discomfort and bodyload....any merit to that?


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26494630 - 02/20/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No

The actives are water soluble. Like dissolves like (Polar dissolves polar). They wont dissolve in alcohol(non polar).

Have you tried tea? I have a week stomach and the tea was my saving grace.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20712738


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26494687 - 02/20/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
No

The actives are water soluble. Like dissolves like (Polar dissolves polar). They wont dissolve in alcohol(non polar).

Have you tried tea? I have a week stomach and the tea was my saving grace.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20712738





Yeah tea is how I roll man... Ever since I grew my own batch I only ate them once and that was fresh which gave me the most annoying stomach discomfort, tea has been better but it's still there.

I just felt boiling mushrooms would result in way more other stuff getting dissolved along with the actives compared to just letting the fungus sit in ethanol for a couple weeks with no boiling...this was just what I've read on mycotopia though.

So lets say you take an 30 Grams and make some tea with it...how concentrated can I boil it down to? Also could I add just enough ethanol to the tea to stop it from freezing so that I can just store it all together and draw up as many MLs as I need with out thawing it? That whole concept with the ethanol sounded pretty inviting too.

Would mushroom tea mixed with alcohol stored in the freezer but not frozen still be preserved?


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: The Mycologist] * 2
    #26494776 - 02/20/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
No

The actives are water soluble. Like dissolves like (Polar dissolves polar). They wont dissolve in alcohol(non polar).

Have you tried tea? I have a week stomach and the tea was my saving grace.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20712738




Ethanol is a very polar molecule. Its a small molecule with a hydroxyl group on one side. That's about as polar as it gets.

Ethanol extractions work well.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: iwh678]
    #26494793 - 02/20/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iwh678 said:
Quote:

The Mycologist said:
No

The actives are water soluble. Like dissolves like (Polar dissolves polar). They wont dissolve in alcohol(non polar).

Have you tried tea? I have a week stomach and the tea was my saving grace.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20712738




Ethanol is a very polar molecule. Its a small molecule with a hydroxyl group on one side. That's about as polar as it gets.

Ethanol extractions work well.




See this is what I mean lol You ask 10 people and you get 15 different opinions...

Ok so if I do go the ethanol route should I heat it ? Just let it sit at room temp? How long?  BTW have you actually done this with everclear ? your speaking from experience I assume?

TIA


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26494820 - 02/20/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You can also ask 10 different people if ethanol is polar and apparently you will get different answers. That doesn't mean there's actually any debate there.

I don't extract my shrooms because I've never had any issues just consuming them outright.

But its an extraction. It works just like any other extraction. You can heat it up, that will cause the extraction to occur faster, but it will also cause the ethanol to evaporate so I wouldn't recommend it. I would powder, add to the ethanol and let it sit for a couple days, giving it a shake every now and then. Then strain it. That should give plenty of time for the extraction to occur.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: iwh678]
    #26494825 - 02/20/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iwh678 said:
You can also ask 10 different people if ethanol is polar and apparently you will get different answers. That doesn't mean there's actually any debate there.

I don't extract my shrooms because I've never had any issues just consuming them outright.

But its an extraction. It works just like any other extraction. You can heat it up, that will cause the extraction to occur faster, but it will also cause the ethanol to evaporate so I wouldn't recommend it. I would powder, add to the ethanol and let it sit for a couple days, giving it a shake every now and then. Then strain it. That should give plenty of time for the extraction to occur.




No offense bro but I would feel better if I heard from someone who has done this before I drop an oz in some booze....I guess I could always try it out with one dose first and see for myself but I'm not trying to dose atm...Just want to consolidate my stash...


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26494952 - 02/20/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well I was wrong about the polarity so crap.

I read that ethanol caused issues, but now I cant remember the reasoning.


I know that tea works, so theres that.


Mixed ethanol would probably settle out tho.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Invisibletramalot
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26495067 - 02/20/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Supposedly there's both water and ethenol soluble compounds. I would imagine soaking them in like youkon jack might work, strained of course


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It's the Journey I enjoy!


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: tramalot]
    #26495322 - 02/20/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tramalot said:
Supposedly there's both water and ethenol soluble compounds. I would imagine soaking them in like youkon jack might work, strained of course




Right, this is what I'm saying. Supposedly a lot of the components of the mushroom that cause the discomfort are soluble in water but not ethanol so doing an ethanol extraction can avoid them all together...Maybe not completely because there is some water in ever clear, but certainly less water solubles than if you were making tea...

Probably just hippy science though...I guess I'm just gonna have to buy a bottle of everclear and try it with a single dose to see what happens...


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26495501 - 02/20/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Well I was wrong about the polarity so crap.

I read that ethanol caused issues, but now I cant remember the reasoning.


I know that tea works, so theres that.


Mixed ethanol would probably settle out tho.




What do you mean mixed ethanol? Like with water? The alcohol is a solute so it doesn't settle out, just like salt doesn't settle out of the ocean.

Quote:

SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:

tramalot said:
Supposedly there's both water and ethenol soluble compounds. I would imagine soaking them in like youkon jack might work, strained of course




Right, this is what I'm saying. Supposedly a lot of the components of the mushroom that cause the discomfort are soluble in water but not ethanol so doing an ethanol extraction can avoid them all together...Maybe not completely because there is some water in ever clear, but certainly less water solubles than if you were making tea...

Probably just hippy science though...I guess I'm just gonna have to buy a bottle of everclear and try it with a single dose to see what happens...





Most stomach discomfort comes from undigestable chitin in the cell walls. This is removed by both water and ethanol extractions. The rest of the stomach discomfort is a result of psychedelics interacting with some of the same receptors that cause motion sickness. The effect of this varies person to person just like motion/sea sickness.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: iwh678]
    #26495539 - 02/20/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

iwh678 said:
Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Well I was wrong about the polarity so crap.

I read that ethanol caused issues, but now I cant remember the reasoning.


I know that tea works, so theres that.


Mixed ethanol would probably settle out tho.




What do you mean mixed ethanol? Like with water? The alcohol is a solute so it doesn't settle out, just like salt doesn't settle out of the ocean.

Quote:

SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Quote:

tramalot said:
Supposedly there's both water and ethenol soluble compounds. I would imagine soaking them in like youkon jack might work, strained of course




Right, this is what I'm saying. Supposedly a lot of the components of the mushroom that cause the discomfort are soluble in water but not ethanol so doing an ethanol extraction can avoid them all together...Maybe not completely because there is some water in ever clear, but certainly less water solubles than if you were making tea...

Probably just hippy science though...I guess I'm just gonna have to buy a bottle of everclear and try it with a single dose to see what happens...





Most stomach discomfort comes from undigestable chitin in the cell walls. This is removed by both water and ethanol extractions. The rest of the stomach discomfort is a result of psychedelics interacting with some of the same receptors that cause motion sickness. The effect of this varies person to person just like motion/sea sickness.




So basically you're saying that an alcohol extraction is no different than a water extract (tea)?

would adding enough alcohol to my tea concentrate to keep it liquid in the freezer affect the preservation of the alkaloids?


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InvisibleDarkslide
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26495627 - 02/20/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

It works. Ethanol, Everclear.. cheap vodka for that matter. It definitely smooths out the ride. Speaking from many years of personal experience.
Just don't be deceived about the crystals. They are not 100% magic. A portion is carbohydrates. At least that was the conclusion in old debates. Either way. It works.
Heating is not required but give it more time to extract. You can heat, but be extra careful when heating any solvents. No open flames, double boilers are preferable. My Soxhlet extractor did a pretty good job at about 115 deg F. I use a Fondu pot for that temp :lol:


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: Darkslide]
    #26495693 - 02/20/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Darkslide said:
http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

It works. Ethanol, Everclear.. cheap vodka for that matter. It definitely smooths out the ride. Speaking from many years of personal experience.
Just don't be deceived about the crystals. They are not 100% magic. A portion is carbohydrates. At least that was the conclusion in old debates. Either way. It works.
Heating is not required but give it more time to extract. You can heat, but be extra careful when heating any solvents. No open flames, double boilers are preferable. My Soxhlet extractor did a pretty good job at about 115 deg F. I use a Fondu pot for that temp :lol:




Wouldn't using vodka essentially be making tea? It's more than 50% water, doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of using ethanol?


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26495717 - 02/20/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No ethanol is more stable and prevents growth of bacteria and other nasties. I personally use something closer to 70-80% though.


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InvisibleDarkslide
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: iwh678]
    #26495877 - 02/20/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah vodka is not preferred but it does form crystals to an extent. Otherwise it's mostly a nasty tasting tea. Ever clear is far more efficient.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: Darkslide]
    #26497061 - 02/21/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ok well I went ahead and bought a liter of everclear but before I do this I wanted to know what is the verdict on how long they should sit in the ethanol for, if I'm not heating it up?


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InvisibleDarkslide
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Re: Ethanol extraction [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26498521 - 02/22/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SpunkyMonkey88 said:
Ok well I went ahead and bought a liter of everclear but before I do this I wanted to know what is the verdict on how long they should sit in the ethanol for, if I'm not heating it up?




Stamets notes about three days which I'd say is fairly accurate as a minimum. You can let it go much longer.. not that it's needed, but I was comfortable with a week. I'd recommend keeping the crystals in the liquid after straining out the muck. Keeps them from contacting air which will break them down eventually. The entire mix can be stored in the freezer for a very long time.


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