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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26494971 - 02/20/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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i think he was expecting the results he got?
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: A.k.a]
#26494973 - 02/20/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: What kind of nute levels did the plates have?
I would think putting coir ontop of a colonized plate would do pretty well
It was coir water agar so I don’t have exact numbers. I squeezed about 3/4qt of excess water out of a batch of sub - didn’t boil it down or dilute it, but it did stand in an open jar for a couple of days before I got around to freezing it, so maybe a bit more nutes than running water through coir once.
I’m gonna try the thing with hydrating coir using boiled down coir-water. Just gotta figure out the parameters. Running a controlled experiment is a bitch lol...this one wasn’t even close.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: mushboy]
#26494974 - 02/20/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Idk where he got the idea of coir being nutritional enough. A bunch of people have been doing coir only grows. They just use spawn. Coir on its own with no spawn is going to work just as well as trying to use manure without spawn.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: mushboy]
#26494981 - 02/20/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I love seeing experiments in MC, im all for it, and it was technically a successful experiment 
And the success part of it is potentially if we evetually mske sense of this coir-germination discussion/confusion
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: bodhisatta]
#26494984 - 02/20/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Idk where he got the idea of coir being nutritional enough. A bunch of people have been doing coir only grows. They just use spawn. Coir on its own with no spawn is going to work just as well as trying to use manure without spawn.
 I’m so confused right now. Isn’t manure nutritious? God I’m dumb. It’s Back to reading for me.
As for why I did this... I guess I was just holding out hope that the dude in the other thread was only 99% wrong lol. Like, if I could get even 1/10th of normal yields from a tub full of coir, that would have big implications (in my mind). Mostly I was just fucking around tbh
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Mateja


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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114]
#26494998 - 02/20/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said:
Quote:
A.k.a said: What kind of nute levels did the plates have?
I would think putting coir ontop of a colonized plate would do pretty well
It was coir water agar so I don’t have exact numbers. I squeezed about 3/4qt of excess water out of a batch of sub - didn’t boil it down or dilute it, but it did stand in an open jar for a couple of days before I got around to freezing it, so maybe a bit more nutes than running water through coir once.
I’m gonna try the thing with hydrating coir using boiled down coir-water. Just gotta figure out the parameters. Running a controlled experiment is a bitch lol...this one wasn’t even close.
Heres a tip for your next experiment: in case youre looking to confirm or deny the notion that coir is nutritional enough to sustain enough so called 'trouble' then your best option is to try and collect a 'rich' boil off water from the coir and use that as a LC broth. See if spores can germinate and grow in that medium and if it can sustain life to a degree. Reason i mention using coir water as LC broth is from experience i know that organisms can thrive off of minute nutrient levels such as 0.1% while 0.1% nutritious agar puck for exsmple wouldnt be able to provide for a healthy growth. (the same goes for 0.1% nutrient rich coir based substrates) hope you at least understand what im generally getting at and what im suggesting in term of experiments
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Mateja]
#26495017 - 02/20/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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People have made coir water LCs though. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14196946#14196946
I get what you’re saying. You just had me confused back there because you said spores need nutrients to germinate. I’m thinking I’ll get together about 6qts of coir water, boil it down to 3, and use that to hydrate a fresh brick. Or is that not enough of a nutrient boost?
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Mateja


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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114]
#26495068 - 02/20/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok give me one chance to confuse you back to clarity 
But... Spores DO need sufficient nutrient levels to be able to germinate 'SUCCESSFULLY' into that which we conceptualize as the kind of 'germination' that matters. (in this cases 'germination' as we speak of it would imply contaminant spores that not only readily germinate on a given substrate but also will colonize successfully thus posing a sufficient threat to the development of the desired mushroom culture. Thats what I called 'trouble enough' earlier.
So lets forget about the general textbook definition of 'germination' and lets focus instead on contaminant spores that gain foothold and wreac havoc on a predictable level/basis and not just sporadically and inconsistently.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114]
#26495083 - 02/20/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Idk where he got the idea of coir being nutritional enough. A bunch of people have been doing coir only grows. They just use spawn. Coir on its own with no spawn is going to work just as well as trying to use manure without spawn.
 I’m so confused right now. Isn’t manure nutritious? God I’m dumb. It’s Back to reading for me.
As for why I did this... I guess I was just holding out hope that the dude in the other thread was only 99% wrong lol. Like, if I could get even 1/10th of normal yields from a tub full of coir, that would have big implications (in my mind). Mostly I was just fucking around tbh
Don't worry about nutritional or not. Worry about what works.
Coir is nutritional to some organisms and not to others. Manure is obviously nutritional.
Trying to grow on manure without spawn doesn't work well unless you're farmer with a field of cows. Trying to grow on coir with no to little spawn will work the same. It won't work
Add spawn to coir or manure substrate you'll be able to judge your yields based of the amount of spawn you used without taking into account substrate.
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Mateja


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Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Mateja]
#26495120 - 02/20/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Lots of bacterial spores germinste (I presume) on different nutrient based mediums but unless environmental conditions are sufficient to provide for meaningful growth (bacteria for exsmple must have standing water or in the least very wet/damp climate in its environment for the live bacteria culture to be able to thrive or expand at all. So bacterial contsminations are very dofferent from mold. Different in their respective abilities to germinste and to colonize since they demand different environments for optimal growth.
All of this hopefully useful (and without misinformation) shit I post isnt necessarily supoosed to mske sense r7ght swsy but rather you csn use it as genral and basic pointers.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (02/20/20 12:45 PM)
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: bodhisatta]
#26495139 - 02/20/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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.Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
feldman114 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Idk where he got the idea of coir being nutritional enough. A bunch of people have been doing coir only grows. They just use spawn. Coir on its own with no spawn is going to work just as well as trying to use manure without spawn.
 I’m so confused right now. Isn’t manure nutritious? God I’m dumb. It’s Back to reading for me.
As for why I did this... I guess I was just holding out hope that the dude in the other thread was only 99% wrong lol. Like, if I could get even 1/10th of normal yields from a tub full of coir, that would have big implications (in my mind). Mostly I was just fucking around tbh
Don't worry about nutritional or not. Worry about what works.
Coir is nutritional to some organisms and not to others. Manure is obviously nutritional.
Trying to grow on manure without spawn doesn't work well unless you're farmer with a field of cows. Trying to grow on coir with no to little spawn will work the same. It won't work
Add spawn to coir or manure substrate you'll be able to judge your yields based of the amount of spawn you used without taking into account substrate.
Okay, so the nutes in coir and manure aren’t biologically available to cube myc. But does using spawn make them more available (or make the myc strong enough to “digest” it)? Or is grain spawn always the only source of nutes?
Heres what I’m really wondering - if we add nutrients to coir, will it remain somewhat resistant? And if so, does it have to be coir-based nutes? Can I hydrate coir with grain water and depend on some level of resistance to contams? (I assume grain water can substitute grain?)
Sorry for the game of 100 questions, but specific questions like this are pretty much impossible to find via the search bar.
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Jive Ass Turkey
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114] 2
#26495163 - 02/20/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: Lol trich-treated coir? Typo?
2000+ posts and you sound quite noobish.
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Mateja


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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114]
#26495167 - 02/20/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Theres no chance grain water can substitute grain as the main source of nutes. Grain water doesnt exceed 2% nutrient concentration if I remember Bods 3 yesr old posts correctly (he tested grain water at work I believe) to compare tha5 to the rest of the 98% is of course a huge difference. Dont expect mlre than a handful of fruits off of gallons of grain water (I would estimate thid of course on no grounds whatsoever except maybe my average level intelligence predicktions agsin based on nothing but intuition and ineffable knowledge)
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mushboy
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Jive Ass Turkey] 1
#26495174 - 02/20/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jive Ass Turkey said:
Quote:
feldman114 said: Lol trich-treated coir? Typo?
2000+ posts and you sound quite noobish.
You should read my posts.
Dont be such a jive turkey, turkey
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Mateja]
#26495179 - 02/20/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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And then theres the fact that a mushroom culture doesnt utilise more than a fraction/fraction and a half of the grains spawned so that that into a consideration as well. Probably better nutrient availability in a solution than in a substrate but then again even the >2% nutes in the solution would be mostly unavailable to the orgsnism during its short life cycle of fruiting.
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Jive Ass Turkey
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Mateja]
#26495194 - 02/20/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
You should read my posts.
Dont be such a jive turkey, turkey
why would I need to read your post when I can read product descriptions?
Do you own search and find out. you've been here long enough.
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Mateja]
#26495196 - 02/20/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Theres no chance grain water can substitute grain as the main source of nutes. Grain water doesnt exceed 2% nutrient concentration if I remember Bods 3 yesr old posts correctly (he tested grain water at work I believe) to compare tha5 to the rest of the 98% is of course a huge difference. Dont expect mlre than a handful of fruits off of gallons of grain water (I would estimate thid of course on no grounds whatsoever except maybe my average level intelligence predicktions agsin based on nothing but intuition and ineffable knowledge) 
Why is 2% is the maximum? You mean if I try to boil it down for concentration the nutes solidify? Evaporate? Really asking.
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feldman114
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: Jive Ass Turkey]
#26495250 - 02/20/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jive Ass Turkey said:
Quote:
You should read my posts.
Dont be such a jive turkey, turkey
why would I need to read your post when I can read product descriptions?
Do you own search and find out. you've been here long enough.
Guess I was quick to judge the term, though the poaster who brought it up seems to have taken no offense at my mistake. Still not sure why it’s called that. I googled it, and it seems coir and trich coexist in nature, so it gets sterilized for industrial uses. Not treated with trich or treated with some anti-trich chemicals - just sterilized. Am I missing something?
Here’s RR saying you can use un-trich-treated coir if you pasteurize it. Couldn’t find any specific info on the process. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14766846#14766846
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114]
#26495278 - 02/20/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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They add trich to coir for gardening. It germinates on the plant roots and forms a symbiosis
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cronicr



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Re: Surprise!! Coir ONLY is a Complete Bust [Re: feldman114] 1
#26495283 - 02/20/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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coir is about as nutritious for fungi as manure but it's also super salty ( lick some it's gross) which is why spores don't like to germinate on it and it can be used as door mats and it's added to brands for plants to use but doesn't effect us. grain is our nute source plain and simple, bulk is our water our texture and our cheap ingredient. the original poster was caught with his foot in his mouth when he posted pics with obvious grain spawn in his substrate, people love short cuts and that won't change so growing in uncle Ben's and using a microwave or skipping pasturizing and ommiting shit will always bring a certain appeal to lazy growers.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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