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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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honesty
    #26493321 - 02/19/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Byron Katie said:

Being honest is very easy when you're not afraid of losing something.




I've found honesty to be challenging in a relationship. To speak my mind and my heart can be a huge struggle for me. I read this idea recently and I find that for me, fear is at the root of the issue. Looking back on my life, I've always been afraid to share my true self. Does this idea resonate with you? It's insightful considering what I fear losing.


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InvisibleGrateful Dead
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Re: honesty [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #26493469 - 02/19/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, I naturally keep things close to my vest and doubt I'll ever want to be totally honest with anyone.


--------------------
Life begins on the other side of despair...


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: honesty [Re: Grateful Dead] * 2
    #26493508 - 02/19/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Sometimes what keeps me from being honest is fearing loss of intimacy (if you really knew the real me, you wouldn't accept and love me) and sometimes it's that I am afraid to see myself for who I really am. Facing myself to see and accept who I really am can be a terrifying idea, because that requires me to unpack emotional pain and trauma I've been avoiding my whole life.


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InvisibleCosmicTwin
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Re: honesty [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 3
    #26493743 - 02/19/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Truth and honesty is the foundation of trust. To reach a deep level of intimacy(and love) you have to trust your partner, or at least I do. Don't be so hard on yourself, accept yourself(as you are and as you want to be.)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: honesty [Re: CosmicTwin] * 2
    #26494869 - 02/20/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have a problem with being honest because growing up being honest meant getting spanked, hit, or yelled at so I just leaned to lie or delay the truth. My parents told me to tell the truth but when doing so hurts you one learns to avoid that. And if it isn’t that it’s because no one cares. Whenever I try to speak how I fe people frequently blow me off or just just ignore me in conversation. So I learned that being honest and truthful doesn’t get you much. It’s hard to go through life like that. But I can also relate to having something to lose. That’s why I keep my mouth shut a lot or stick to popular topics. I don’t want to lose anything.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: honesty [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #26494885 - 02/20/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

True honestly is probably the cause of most of my marriages issues, and we're both at fault. We never lie about or hide anything big, I guess it's more about the effort it takes and the fear of being totally open and vulnerable.

MDMA helped tremendously, but it can also create a fluffy tendency to over-share, to read into things as being more than they are.

I think in most cases the best thing someone can do for their relationship is to work on themselves. It's not something you can draw out of others, but by being honest and open yourself you can provide a space for them to do the same more comfortably. much easier said than done


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: honesty [Re: CosmicTwin] * 2
    #26495240 - 02/20/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicTwin said:
Truth and honesty is the foundation of trust. To reach a deep level of intimacy(and love) you have to trust your partner, or at least I do. Don't be so hard on yourself, accept yourself(as you are and as you want to be.)




I want to add that one can not change the past, but can make changes to today and the future. Dwelling on the past and thinking that they could have done this or that about it will only bring a person grief.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: honesty [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26507990 - 02/28/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

I have a problem with being honest because growing up being honest meant getting spanked, hit, or yelled at so I just leaned to lie or delay the truth.




I appreciate your honesty. And I relate. As a kid I learned to play small. I created an imaginary world where I felt safe. As a kid, I dealt with physical threats and psychological oppression from my parents. Both straight-forward aggression and passive coercion.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: honesty [Re: Grateful Dead]
    #26507996 - 02/28/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Grateful Dead said:
Yeah, I naturally keep things close to my vest and doubt I'll ever want to be totally honest with anyone.



Ditto

There were occasions where I decided “fuck it” and the real Feldman came out.
Reactions varied:shrug:

But there’s no one in the world who really knows me. I’m really ok with that, and tired of trying for a deeper connection only to be disappointed...again.

As long as I can stay honest with myself, I can’t complain.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: honesty [Re: feldman114]
    #26508025 - 02/28/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:

But there’s no one in the world who really knows me. I’m really ok with that, and tired of trying for a deeper connection only to be disappointed...again.

As long as I can stay honest with myself, I can’t complain.




Our expectations create our disappointment. I think the bigger challenge is to know ourselves.  I'm unsure if anyone could know what it's like to be me - and suspect the desire for such is not realistic.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: honesty [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26508088 - 02/28/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I think honest can be replaced with vulnerable. Much of our culture and spirituality to some sense, is based on being invulnerable. We lie to avoid dealing with the truth, seek transcendence to avoid being hurt and exposed, and arm up to protect.

I’ll admit it’s hard for me as a man to comfortably express emotion without being labeled as feminine. It’s not a male or female thing, it’s human to have such feelings and express them. Because I think people are fine with honestly when they have no stake in the game but when it leaves them exposed it’s a problem.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: honesty [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26508094 - 02/28/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well it’s like... I KNOW I’m capable of being open/tolerant/accepting of every aspect of another person. So, yes, the expectation is that I’ll be accepted with all my skeletons and 0 judgement.

I’ve never been closer to anyone than I am (ok was:sad: for years) to my wife. If I found out she was a serial killer, my first thought would be “fuck, we gotta get rid of any evidence, etc.” not “wtf is with this bitch!?!”
But, as it turned out, there were a ton of things that she did NOT accept or even tolerate about me. This made me depressed for a while, until I realized that it’s ok. It’s ok not to be connected on some high level or w.e. It’s ok to judge me because no one owes anyone anything...
I honestly believe I’m happier now than when I was under the illusion that I found someone who will accept all of me for who I really am.

Heh, I guess that was just another way to say
Quote:

Our expectations create our disappointments




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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: honesty [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 4
    #26508133 - 02/28/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

There are some things I have told a mate in confidence and trusted them, then they used that info against me as a weapon to hurt me and manipulate me, FUCKING FUCKER!!! I thought I would NEVER trust anyone again, but I met this person, and now I've been married for over 2 years, and everything just keeps getting better, and I'm in awe of how much I trust this person and they trust me. There is a secret or 2 that I will NEVER tell ANYONE, but it's nothing that needs to be told to anyone.

I do find that the behavior(s) I learned to protect myself mentally from the last mate of 20 years (co dependent mind fuck of a time) sometimes seem to make me think I'm pissing my mate off, or making them irritated etc... because that's what happened for 20 years with the other person. He accepts and loves me for who I am, period, and that is very liberating and comforting and is something I thought I would never know. To all of you out there hurting and fearing and keeping yourself closed off, it's ok to a certain extent, but you'll develop a very hard crusty shell that will be very hard to crack and may make someone that really likes/loves you stop trying to crack it.

There's protecting oneself, then there's wallowing in self pity, anger, confusion, depression, and so on. Only you can create the reality you wish to have, it may not happen overnight, week, year, or even multiple years, but moving forward works. "Are you reeling in the years? Stowing away the time? Are you gatherin' up the tears? Have you had enough of mine?


Here's some more songs/lyrics I thought of when I read this thread. You people need to get out there and live! No matter how many times you get knocked about, keep on going, what else is there? Doom and gloom? At least I know I'll never get hurt again? blah blah dee fucking blah! never stop until you drop!:heart:


Breathe, breathe in the air
Don't be afraid to care
Leave but don't leave me
Look around, choose your own ground
For long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all your touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be

Run, rabbit run
Dig that hole, forget the sun
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave
(but not always!)





Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.

You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
(this has rang truer and truer over the years for me, and this particualr part has ALWAYS been in my head since I first heard this song:heart:)

No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.
Home
Home again
I like to be here
When I can
When I come home
Cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones
Beside the fire
Far away
Across the field
Tolling on the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spell










Honesty
Billy Joel
If you search for tenderness
It isn't hard to find
You can have the love you need to live
But if you look for truthfulness
You might just as well be blind
It always seems to be so hard to give
Honesty is such a lonely word
Everyone is so untrue
Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you
I can always find someone
To say they sympathize
If I wear my heart out on my sleeve
But I don't want some pretty face
To tell me pretty lies
All I want is someone to believe
Honesty is such a lonely word
Everyone is so untrue
Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you
I can find a lover
I can find a friend
I can have security until the bitter end
Anyone can comfort me
With promises again
I know, I know
When I'm deep inside of me
Don't be too concerned
I won't ask for nothin' while I'm gone
But when I want sincerity
Tell me where else can I turn
'Cause you're the one I depend upon
Honesty is such a lonely word
Everyone is so untrue
Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you


Edited by tyrannicalrex (02/28/20 01:28 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: honesty [Re: feldman114]
    #26508206 - 02/28/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Well it’s like... I KNOW I’m capable of being open/tolerant/accepting of every aspect of another person. So, yes, the expectation is that I’ll be accepted with all my skeletons and 0 judgement.

I’ve never been closer to anyone than I am (ok was:sad: for years) to my wife. If I found out she was a serial killer, my first thought would be “fuck, we gotta get rid of any evidence, etc.” not “wtf is with this bitch!?!”
But, as it turned out, there were a ton of things that she did NOT accept or even tolerate about me. This made me depressed for a while, until I realized that it’s ok. It’s ok not to be connected on some high level or w.e. It’s ok to judge me because no one owes anyone anything...
I honestly believe I’m happier now than when I was under the illusion that I found someone who will accept all of me for who I really am.

Heh, I guess that was just another way to say
Quote:

Our expectations create our disappointments







I don’t know. My parents seem to accept each other quite well. They have their faults but they just accept it as something that is and get over it. Honestly I’ve never seen a relationship like my parents so I’m biased but people like that do exist.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: honesty [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26508229 - 02/28/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

"people like that"

YOU are "people like that"!!! I am, everyone has the potential to be "people like that".:heart:


--------------------


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: honesty [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #26508263 - 02/28/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I feel like I have emotional integrity, but it takes a long time for me to truly let myself be entirely vulnerable to someone.

Each step towards that place of trust is a little on the calculated side on my part, but not intentionally. I'll let someone in, but only exactly as far as I want to. Which is kind of odd, because I feel like I have a fairly 'open' and emotionally outgoing demeanor on the surface and it can be unintentionally misleading about just how reserved I really am.

I don't mean to be that way, but I have a lot of walls that sometimes I don't even realize exist. Trying to find that place of total and unconditional trust feels a bit like trying to navigate maze to me, myself. Going through a break up feels like I'm just kind of stuck back at the beginning, and not only that, but the way to the center of the maze(or out of the maze..whatever suits your metaphorical fancy) has changed and I have to completely relearn it.


Idk, I get it. It's a hard thing to come to terms with, and to be, and sometimes I worry that it's an unchangeable part of my personality.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: honesty [Re: pirate-blues]
    #26508268 - 02/28/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Well it’s like... I KNOW I’m capable of being open/tolerant/accepting of every aspect of another person. So, yes, the expectation is that I’ll be accepted with all my skeletons and 0 judgement.

I’ve never been closer to anyone than I am (ok was:sad: for years) to my wife. If I found out she was a serial killer, my first thought would be “fuck, we gotta get rid of any evidence, etc.” not “wtf is with this bitch!?!”
But, as it turned out, there were a ton of things that she did NOT accept or even tolerate about me. This made me depressed for a while, until I realized that it’s ok. It’s ok not to be connected on some high level or w.e. It’s ok to judge me because no one owes anyone anything...
I honestly believe I’m happier now than when I was under the illusion that I found someone who will accept all of me for who I really am.

Heh, I guess that was just another way to say
Quote:

Our expectations create our disappointments







I don’t know. My parents seem to accept each other quite well. They have their faults but they just accept it as something that is and get over it. Honestly I’ve never seen a relationship like my parents so I’m biased but people like that do exist.




Well I’m sure many people have those kind of relationships. I was just saying that looking for one can leave you bitter, while accepting its absence can give you peace of mind.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: honesty [Re: feldman114]
    #26508444 - 02/28/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Not true. You can look for one but still be at peace while “resigning yourself” sounds more like bitterness and disillusionment rather than genuine acceptance. I accept that it is possible.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: honesty [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26508446 - 02/28/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
"people like that"

YOU are "people like that"!!! I am, everyone has the potential to be "people like that".:heart:




I don’t think we are otherwise we wouldn’t be here. Also some people just can’t be like that as well.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: honesty [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26508448 - 02/28/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Not true. You can look for one but still be at peace while “resigning yourself” sounds more like bitterness and disillusionment rather than genuine acceptance. I accept that it is possible.




Not true? But what you said doesn’t contradict what I said.

I’m guessing you didn’t really read it...


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