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OfflineScolecite
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Is there any evidence that astrology is fake?
    #2649218 - 05/07/04 07:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It seems to always work for me. Also you have to consider your rising sign and moon placement to get a good reading. Your sun sign is far too broad of a variable.

I know that it dosent work by gravity. But fact remains that the sun is 99% of all the mass in our entire solar system, when it changes, we change.

Im looking for input, or a cool "astrology is crap" website or somthing, LOL

Thanks


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2649254 - 05/07/04 08:32 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"The human race has always wanted to control the future, or at least to predict what will happen. That is why astrology is so popular. Astrology claims that events on the Earth are related to the motions of the planets across the sky. This is a scientifically testable hypothesis, or would be if astrologers stuck their necks out and made definite predictions that could be tested. However, wisely enough, they make their forecasts so vauge that they can apply to any outcome. Statements such as "Personal relations may become intense" or "You will have a financially rewarding opportunity" can never be proved wrong.

But the real reason most scientists don't believe in astrology is not scientific evidence or the lack of it, but because it is not consistent with other theories that have been tested by experiment. When Copernicus and Galileo discovered that the planets orbit the Sun rather than the Earth, and Newton discovered the laws that govern their motion, astrology because extremely implausible. Why should the positions of othe rplanets against the background sky as seen from Earth have any correlations with the macromolecules on a minor planet that call themselves intelligent life?



Yet this is what astrology would have us believe. There is no more experimental evidence for some of the theories described in this book (The Universe In a Nutshell) than there is for atsrology, but we believe them because they are consistent with theories that have survived testing." --Stephen Hawking.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: neuro]
    #2649262 - 05/07/04 08:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There's more in the chapter, but from that point it diverges from direct astrology and speaks about newtonian mechanics and the Heisenberg uncertaintly principle with respect to knowing the exact position of a particle and it's velocity and being able to determine the future. Which according to the heisenberg uncertainty principle you can't know the exact position and the velocity of a particle at the same time, the more accurately you measure the positoin the less accurate you know the velocity and vice versa. Knowing both exact answers woudl allow us to determine the future path of the particle as well as it's past ad infinitum. Understanding this concept and the concepts after lead one away from astrology and into science.

As for the statement about the sun being massive. Yes that's true, but has there been any evidence or test that has been done that shows gravity influences us personally/financially and emotionally? We're constantly under the influence and a flux of gravity all the time. Even the smallest of particles exert a force gravity on you and you on them, the gravity you encounter is constantly changing, albeit minutely most of the time. If you can have two people stand next to eachother and you know their distance apart and their mass you can figure out the gravitational force between the two people using an equation.

F = G([m1 x m2]/r^2) That is, the product of the masses of both people divided by their squared distance times the universal gravitational constant. This is just the newtonian equation but it's still taught eve in highschool physics.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2649330 - 05/07/04 09:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone loves analogies!

ALCHEMY is to ASTROLOGY as PAST-BOGUS is to

a) present-bogus
b) enduring-bogus
c) unproven hype
d) all of the above


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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Offlinephi1618
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Registered: 02/14/04
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2649340 - 05/07/04 09:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There is no evidence that astrology is fake because there can be no evidence that astrology is fake. There is no set of observations that would contradict the theory that the stars guide actions on earth.

People sometimes believe that scientific theories are proven, but this is false. In fact, scientific theories are just ones for which we could imagine many ways they could be contradicted, but we never see any of these.

For example, there is no proof that gravity exists except the absense of disproof. In order to prove gravity, we would have to consider every object in the universe at every time; we can't do this. However, I've never seen anything fall up that wasn't thrown; if I ever see this happen, even once, gravity as I understand it will be disproved.

However, there is no such simple observation that would disprove astrology, so it's not scientific.

Doesn't mean you can't believe it, just don't go thinking that it matters that it hasn't been disproven, because it couldn't concievably be disproven.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2649375 - 05/07/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know about websites, but studies have been done showing that a lot of that new age crapola has nothing to it.  I recall one study about astral travel that failed to produce results.  I've never seen any direct evidence that astrology has anything to it.  As phi pointed out, you can't really disprove it directly, but some of the studies I've read are simply consistent with random variation.

Astrology works for you huh? Sure. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: phi1618]
    #2649387 - 05/07/04 10:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said: People sometimes believe that scientific theories are proven, but this is false. In fact, scientific theories are just ones for which we could imagine many ways they could be contradicted, but we never see any of these.




Correct. In science, theories, even laws cannot be 100% proven true. The law of gravity and even the laws of thermodynamics are not proven.

I just wanted make a comment on word of the use "proven" in science. Hopefully when a scientist uses the word "proven" they are not using it to mean, "Proven 100% beyond the shadow of any doubt whatsoever." As phi1618 pointed out, that kind of proof is not possible in science. However, if a conclusion made by inductive reasoning has a very large body of evidence to back it up, and we agree that the probability of that conclusion being wrong is small enough to be ignored for now (eg// the second law of thermodynamics), then it's considered "proven true." Strictly speaking, saying that it's "proven" is wrong, but it's simpler than saying, "considered to have an extremely high probability of being correct."


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InvisibleRunDMT
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Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 16,166
Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2649407 - 05/07/04 10:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You mean like, "oh gee the moon is all lined up nicely. I bet I'll win the lottery now!"?


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: RunDMT]
    #2649548 - 05/07/04 11:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Aquarious right here!  :smile:


I used to be pretty obsessed with astrology.  Now I just don't really care.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: MOTH]
    #2650162 - 05/07/04 04:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Oooo you spelt Aquarius wronggg...  :shocked:


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: neuro]
    #2650211 - 05/07/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I dont' believe in astrology but somethign I find intersting is that our waters are affected by the moon??????

if the moon can affect us, I am sure other planets can.

if that is true, then planets orbiting around us do have an effect on us, right?


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InvisibleRunDMT
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: ]
    #2650220 - 05/07/04 04:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I fail to understand how gravity could affect lottery tickets.


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InvisibleRobotic_touch
Mischief Managed
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Registered: 04/07/04
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2650313 - 05/07/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I dont believe in the astrology predictions, some are accurate, but some are not, but I like to read astrology signs and there characteristics, they are always right, I used to read them all the time and I used to guess what sign people were and I was almost always right.


--------------------


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InvisibleRunDMT
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Robotic_touch]
    #2650324 - 05/07/04 04:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Have you tried reading ones for signs other than your own? They're somewhat correct, because they apply to features of virtually every human being.


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InvisibleRobotic_touch
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: RunDMT]
    #2650339 - 05/07/04 04:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ive read up on all of the signs, and yeah the characteristics can apply to every human being but if you have read each sign in detail along with chinese zodiac signs, they get pretty freakin close. I dont think it is a coincidence.


--------------------


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Robotic_touch]
    #2650549 - 05/07/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You've been reading these forums for a while.

Do you think you can guess for people you have met only on line?


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InvisibleRunDMT
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: phi1618]
    #2650565 - 05/07/04 05:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Good thinking!

Do me! :grin:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Adamist]
    #2650570 - 05/07/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
Oooo you spelt Aquarius wronggg...  :shocked:





hehe, yeah I thought I had.  Blame it on being lazy.  :wink:


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InvisibleComfortably_Numb
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2650627 - 05/07/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Scolecite said:
Im looking for input, or a cool "astrology is crap" website or somthing, LOL



Not exactly conclusive evidence, but a funny article:
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=astrology


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Is there any evidence that astrology is fake? [Re: ]
    #2650965 - 05/07/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

if the moon can affect us, I am sure other planets can.

if that is true, then planets orbiting around us do have an effect on us, right?




I thought i covered this in my second post. I admitted that gravity can affect us. Physically, it can pull on us so minutely that we don't feel it. Even someone jumping on up and down will exert a force back on the earth that moves it ever so slightly maybe it only moves it 10^-google milimeters but it does happen.

Yes the moon can pull on us and we can figure that out using the equation F = G[(m1xm2)/r^2]

The moon moves the tides, the pull of gravity does it. The pull of the moon's gravity pulls on us. slightly all be it. And like i explained before we're in a constant state of flux with respect to gravity, it's always changing depending on where we are, if we'r emoving, what's around us. Your desk exerts a force on you and you back etc... But to say tha the moon will affect our fortunes and love lives directly is utter nonsense in my opinion.

Now for the moon equation:

mean distance from the earth to the moon is 3.84x10^8 M

The mass of the moon is 7.36x10^22Kkg

I weigh approximately 130 pounds (yeah i'm skinny so fuck off). 130 pounds = 58.96800 kilograms

G is the universal gravitational constant G = 6.6720 x 10^-11 kg x m^2 / kg^2

r is actually the distance from the center of mass of the moon to my center of mass, but i can't exactly measure that distance so the distance from the earth to the moon will work fine. The difference would be negligible.

THus we have
F = Gconstant x [ (my mass x moon mass)/distance to moon squared]

F = 6.6720x10^-11 x [(58.96800 x 7.36x10^22)/ (3.84x10^8)^2]

compute that all out and you get

F = 1.9632 x 10^-3 Newtons

1 Newton = .2248lbs of force

so 1.9632x10^-3 newtons = .00044133 lbs of force the moon exerts on me in an ideal situation.



Q.E.D.


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