Home | Community | Message Board

Avalon Magic Plants
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | < Back | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | Next > | Last >
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: cannabinated]
    #26491688 - 02/18/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You're a political thread! (no, it's in the pub, fair game)


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecannabinated
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside Flag
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26491705 - 02/18/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

until it gets moved


retrograde retribution :cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: cannabinated]
    #26491707 - 02/18/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Retrograde Retribution-- great band name!

1st Album: No Rest For The Wicked


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: cannabinated]
    #26491737 - 02/18/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Real wages claim to be adjusted for purchasing power but there have been many innovations which improve quality of life since the 70s. you cant compare the purchasing power.

besides you are using the wrong stats. if you look at for example real compensation per capita (all benefits not just wages), real personal consuptionnexpenditures per capita or personal disposable income per capita you will see an increase in loving standardssince the 70s.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A229RX0A048NBEA
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A794RX0Q048SBEA


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB


Look at you putting people into groups and comparing the groups together. you are doing what you accused me of. you cant just put people into 4 groups and then ignore the fact that throughout the whole time period you have people moving accross groups during that whole time period. many of the people who were in the lowest bracket in the 70s are no longer there.

most wealth is earned not inherited. you cant just put people into groups like that and ignote that the groups are made up of totally different people and infact the previous population of the bottom group have since expetienced upward mobility.

in regards to your chart about wages not following productivity. first of all if you looked at total compensation and not just wages it would follow productivity more closely.

https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/productivity-and-compensation-growing-together

"The second problem is that this chart arguably uses an inappropriate measure of inflation, the CPI, which shows a very small increase in wages. The CPI is a measure of inflation more suited to the consumer market. Labor is a factor of production and, thus, a measure of inflation in the factors market is more appropriate, like the Implicit Price Deflator."

https://fee.org/articles/5-myths-about-income-inequality-debunked/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491744 - 02/18/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

As far as free markets are concerned, it doesn't exist. Does that mean we can't examine the US economic model? Not at all.



I'm glad you've come to your senses.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491759 - 02/18/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Most people who were paying taxes in the 70’s are dead.

“Total compensation” isn’t even a real term in economics. It’s just something lobbyists came up with to help politicians justify the wealth gap. For all economical purposes, your wage IS your compensation. You can’t shop using your sick days...and your employer is mandated to provide them.



Your reasoning is flawed as hell. Anyone who ever studied economics can attest to that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26491777 - 02/18/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

most wealth is earned not inherited


I know you want to believe this, but it's not true.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States
In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[22] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 35% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 51%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 86% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 14%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 43%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[23] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 35% to 37%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 86% to 88%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36% in median household wealth, but a drop of only 11% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.[21][23][24]

According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.[25][26] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a substantial head start.[27][28] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, over 60 percent of the Forbes richest 400 Americans grew up in substantial privilege.[


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26491787 - 02/18/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Most people who were paying taxes in the 70’s are dead.

“Total compensation” isn’t even a real term in economics. It’s just something lobbyists came up with to help politicians justify the wealth gap. For all economical purposes, your wage IS your compensation. You can’t shop using your sick days...and your employer is mandated to provide them.



Your reasoning is flawed as hell. Anyone who ever studied economics can attest to that.



we arent even talking about taxes. we are talking about income. way to enter a conversation completely out of your element.

even if they are all dead my point still stands. the ones in the bottom group did not remain and die in the bottom group and their kids may not be in the bottom group now.

therr is alot of mobility. so you cant just treat foir income groups as consistent groups when people are moving in and oit of them the whole time.

:facepalm: compensation includes all benefits, maternity leave, insurance, sick days, vacation days. all of those things have a value. not including that value into the calculation is dishonest. it doesnt matter if they are made to provide them. that makes zero difference. its still part of their compensation. and as you can see if you include benefits much of the difference between productivity and wages in qmans flawed chart goes away. if they werent forced to provide that stuff then rhey could afford to pay higher wages. its part of the equation no matter what.

you really dont know what you are talking about.

again, you have many misconceptions. why dont you go back and reply to my other posts you ignored instead of going away and coming back to new topics? its really lame when you guys do that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26491793 - 02/18/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
most wealth is earned not inherited


I know you want to believe this, but it's not true.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States
In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[22] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 35% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 51%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 86% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 14%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 43%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[23] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 35% to 37%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 86% to 88%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36% in median household wealth, but a drop of only 11% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the top 1% and the bottom 99%.[21][23][24]

According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.[25][26] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a substantial head start.[27][28] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, over 60 percent of the Forbes richest 400 Americans grew up in substantial privilege.[



lol. first of all you are making the same mistake as qman. yoi are treating your little groups as consistant. what you fail to realize is that people move in and out of those groups all the time. the 1% in 2007 is not the same as the 1% now. there are people moving in and out of the demographic. why can nobody account for economic mobility? I think its just widespread dishonesty and/or ignorance.

besides you want to bring up the forbes  richest 400 Americans? ok, its your funneral.


"One measure of the percentage of the wealthy who are self-made is Forbes’ own Forbes 400 list.  In 1984, less than half the people on The Forbes 400 list of richest Americans were self-made. By 2018, in stark contrast, this same figure had risen to 67%."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/06/24/amazing-facts-that-prove-inheritance-is-mostly-overrated-as-a-reason-for-wealth/amp/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491799 - 02/18/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Lol you’ve obv never studied economics.
And you said people who were in a low tax bracket in the 70’s are doing better now. But most aren’t even alive. How do you continue pushing this point?

if you actually read the entire thread, you’d know I’m not “out of my element”.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491805 - 02/18/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, they like to change it to fit the narrative. Fact is, people who have more money have more opportunity to go to school to make more money to have kids that they send to school that have money that take classes to make more money etc.....

Funeral? You can't kill the living dead!:grin:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26491820 - 02/18/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Lol you’ve obv never studied economics.
And you said people who were in a low tax bracket in the 70’s are doing better now. But most aren’t even alive. How do you continue pushing this point?

if you actually read the entire thread, you’d know I’m not “out of my element”.



qman is framing the discussion in a dishonest way by presenting 4 seperate groups.

but those groups are not consistant. yeah the income of one group may have only grown by X%. But hes not looking at the income of the people IN the group. if you tracked the INDIVIDUALS who started in the bottom groups you would see many who have worked their way up to the higher groups, whose incomes have grown by way more than the X% shown in the graphs. but qman is implying that if you were in the bottom groups your income as an individual doesnt grow by more than the X%.

its not like everyone in the middle class group only increased their income by X percent. its that as a whole the income of the middle class earners (who arent the same people) has grown by X%.

many of the people in the group have had their income grow by much more than that X%.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26491822 - 02/18/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Yeah, they like to change it to fit the narrative. Fact is, people who have more money have more opportunity to go to school to make more money to have kids that they send to school that have money that take classes to make more money etc.....

Funeral? You can't kill the living dead!:grin:



yeah, the fact is you're wrong and not only is most wealth earned, most of the richest people are self made.

I used your own source to disprove you, man.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (02/18/20 02:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26491828 - 02/18/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Income determines the product bundle people choose. So, obviously, sick days and maternity leaves don’t count as income.

401k’s and insurance do, but you use your income to pay for those. You just use untaxed dollars.

The argument that if it wasn’t for mandated vacation time, employers would be able to pay more is asinine in the context of this thread. Bezos can already afford to pay his workers more...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBig Worm
Perf
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 7,642
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26491882 - 02/18/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I was reading an article that said the average price of a home in the 70's was about $27,000. 

Today it's about $240,000. 

Average cost of a car in the 70's, $3,500. 

Gallon of gas?  $.35

Someone said their parents bought a cottage for $13,000 and sold it for $650,000 like 30 years later.


Not really sure what my point is but I bet a lot of people didn't get their wealth from working hard  but having an easy opportunity to acquire wealth through the ridiculous increase in the cost of everything that they didn't do shit to create.    People don't have those same opportunities today.  The increase in wages does not equal the rising costs of everything else.  Most people don't even have a chance to own shit getting paid $15hr working at amazon.  $1,000 month in rent. $3.50 per gallon gas. etc etc.  i bet most rich people today had some type of advantage by acquiring wealth they didn't work for.

and nah I didn't really read everything banana Man.  I'm drunk.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491883 - 02/18/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:shrug: I never claimed to be right, nor do I study economics. BUT, I do know what I see in the working world of middle and low class, and it seems as though it's fixed so the system only helps certain people. Plus, I cam from very poor. My grandma picked cotton sometimes actually.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Big Worm]
    #26491885 - 02/18/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yes! Plus 1000! You get it!:grin: It's like telling someone some facts, but they keep denying the truth behind the truth. They want their billion at any cost god fucking damnit!


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26491902 - 02/18/20 02:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Yeah, they like to change it to fit the narrative. Fact is, people who have more money have more opportunity to go to school to make more money to have kids that they send to school that have money that take classes to make more money etc.....

Funeral? You can't kill the living dead!:grin:



yeah, the fact is you're wrong and not only is most wealth earned, most of the richest people are self made.

I used your own source to disprove you, man.




Most of the 400 richest people weren’t billionaires at birth. That’s all that Forbes list says. You know the first billionaire (Rockefeller) made his billion just 100 years ago? There weren’t anywhere near 400 billionaires 50 years ago. In 1960, there were 9 in the US.
Get it? They’re not self-made, they just gained rank from inflation.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26491904 - 02/18/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

It's futile and useless, but it will go on, forever............and a day!:grin:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 16 hours, 8 minutes
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26492224 - 02/18/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Real wages claim to be adjusted for purchasing power but there have been many innovations which improve quality of life since the 70s. you cant compare the purchasing power.

besides you are using the wrong stats. if you look at for example real compensation per capita (all benefits not just wages), real personal consuptionnexpenditures per capita or personal disposable income per capita you will see an increase in loving standardssince the 70s.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A229RX0A048NBEA
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A794RX0Q048SBEA


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB


Look at you putting people into groups and comparing the groups together. you are doing what you accused me of. you cant just put people into 4 groups and then ignore the fact that throughout the whole time period you have people moving accross groups during that whole time period. many of the people who were in the lowest bracket in the 70s are no longer there.

most wealth is earned not inherited. you cant just put people into groups like that and ignote that the groups are made up of totally different people and infact the previous population of the bottom group have since expetienced upward mobility.

in regards to your chart about wages not following productivity. first of all if you looked at total compensation and not just wages it would follow productivity more closely.

https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/productivity-and-compensation-growing-together

"The second problem is that this chart arguably uses an inappropriate measure of inflation, the CPI, which shows a very small increase in wages. The CPI is a measure of inflation more suited to the consumer market. Labor is a factor of production and, thus, a measure of inflation in the factors market is more appropriate, like the Implicit Price Deflator."

https://fee.org/articles/5-myths-about-income-inequality-debunked/




Hmm, why are you posting about per capita?  We're discussing the working class, why would you put in the millionaires/billionaires into a statistic with the peasants?  It makes no sense. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A229RX0A048NBEA

How about "real MEDIAN household income", which obviously doesn't take into account TWO or more people working instead of ONE person like they did 40 years ago. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

Oh yes, the total compensation!!!  It doesn't include the stock options.  What a joke already, people have LESS benefits today with less health care, zero pensions and self funded 401k plans.

Almost anyone with even a small degree of intellectual honestly recongnize the massive gap of productivity and wages today. Most don't dispute it, but argue on what to do about it.  https://www.google.com/search?q=productivity+and+wages+graph&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Of__I8ke-2f1pM%253A%252CFTR1yQfjs1_VQM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSL5u3heyjpoBSpeCL-NcAbIXwgmQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif_IT9stznAhX2lHIEHTjdDKsQ9QEwAHoECAoQHA#imgrc=uZCcySYq3RnfaM&imgdii=citMWOYL8p8r5M

Holy shit, what a desperate and shitty attempt to justify the obvious. https://fee.org/articles/5-myths-about-income-inequality-debunked; :facepalm:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | < Back | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | Next > | Last >

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Jeff Dowd AKA "the dude" TheDude 886 7 04/12/04 09:20 PM
by MarioNett
* Jeff Beck! foghorn 728 4 08/20/03 07:23 AM
by kaiowas
* Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett own more wealth than the poorest half of the US.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Asante 2,441 74 11/10/17 08:19 PM
by koods
* Radio personality busted... TheShroomHermit 1,332 13 04/07/03 01:04 AM
by Ellis Dee
* If you could give every person in the world one single thing
( 1 2 3 4 all )
MOTH 5,690 76 06/11/04 07:43 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Dr. Phil's amazing personality test!
( 1 2 3 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 7,105 49 10/18/03 01:28 AM
by jtseaweed
* Sunday morning
( 1 2 all )
chinacat72 3,699 31 07/12/04 07:05 AM
by Krishna
* Estimated 150,000+ people dead, 5,000,000 homeless
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Sinbad 25,751 144 01/05/05 10:27 PM
by usefulidiot

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
7,586 topic views. 8 members, 32 guests and 49 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.