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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Quote: Thanks! lol Wanted to reply to this separately! This is GREAT to know. Because this means that if I do end up needing a humidifier, which I may not, since it will already about mid-April by the time I am ready to put the cakes in the SGFC, then I have 6 weeks to decide which one. More importantly I won't have to spend the dough now.
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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My spores, as I said, are running a little bit late in the mail. So I may not be able to get started until Wednesday or Thursday. But I’m chomping at the bit and getting excited, what are my temperature concerns while the inoculated substrate is in the jars colonizing? Are they as fastidious as they will be when the cakes are in the SGFC? I ask, because it’s still technically winter, and sometimes the ambient temperature drops in my bedroom. Especially in the closet where I want to put the colonizing jars.
Oh! And just important, since the jars will be stored on the shelf in my closet, what are my lighting concerns? Do I need to order my 6500K light now? Or are the jars fine in the darkness of a close closet?
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Mushroom Engineer Registered: 09/04/16 Posts: 2,326 Loc: UK Last seen: 1 month, 28 days |
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Hey LSA, I’m here!! Though I’m not reading 6 pages of posts Lol.
Here’s a link to BOD’s getting started post: bod’s Getting Started I’m two weeks into his easy AF monotub Tek. It’s the easiest monotub I’ve ever done. Literally! Coir brick soaked overnight, next day mix in your rye grain, flatten the surface, then put the lid on the monotub upside down and leave it. Apparently pins within 2nweeks with no need to colonise in the dark. It was 2 weeks yesterday so I took the lid off and had a close look. F*** me there are pins! Seriously, I have only misted and fanned it once in two weeks......... Good luck, LSA, and don’t despair it gets easier with practise 👍🏻 DJ Ed -------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna
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Stranger Registered: 01/09/20 Posts: 40 Loc: Yes Last seen: 1 year, 7 months |
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As far as sizing, you can use your jars since the cakes will be the size of them if not slightly smaller, fill 'er up with jars for how many cakes you want. Just thought of this tho, you can cut out a paper to fit the inside of the jar, use the cutout and place a jar lid as a marker over the cake locations if you want to be very exact. Tbh it doesn't have to be surgical the jar lids would be simplest as place markers.
Humidity is all about microclimate, it's easier to manage than controlling the room, all the humitidy stats are like what rate evaporation happens at, idk about SGFC specifically but for monotubs you just spray them if they get dry, I'd check with the more experienced cultivators but I'd imagine SGFC would be the same in that respect. The jars while cultivating should be fine, there's not enough moisture escaping, especially if they get boxed up. If it gets really dry spray the wall of the tub you put them in, just a little so it's not dripping but will balance the dryness. As far as amount of jars, you get multiple harvests-flushes from each cake, so after you will more than likely have enough for the time being, just do what you can manage. For an idea of timeline, it's different teks, variety, and factors, but I noc'd my stuff 1-18, was fully colonized at 2-14 and moved to bulk in tub, and took the tape off today, it was already pinning a bit and largest fruit almost as big as my pinky tip so far. To summarize, about a month for colonization, I did like the equivalent of a quart so yours will be faster. Mine had to colonize the substrate but started pinning in 2-3 weeks, yours I think kicks off when you put it in SGFC so I wouldn't doubt obvious pinning after a week. The factors are very different but idk if anyone ever answered you as far as the timing when you asked earlier in the thread, so that's just my experience. Hope any of this helps! -------------------- This account is purely theoretical, I will be king of the pirates!
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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As always, my thanks, Demetrius18!
Quote: My sense, after further reading on this site, is that this part doesn't have to be so exact. Which is I think what you're hinting at here. The jars are a hair under 3.5 inches at the widest point, which is on top. I will do a quick measure of the inside dimensions of my 70 Qt box before I start, but my sense is 24 cakes will fit quite nicely in that box, whose outer dimensions are 26.125" x 16.25" length and width. I was more worried about having too much space between cakes in the fruiting chamber. So my plan was to decide later on the size of my SGFC, once I see how many cakes I am about to birth. I may decide to only inoculate 12, in which case, I will buy a much smaller box tor the SGFC when the time comes, and stow my 70 Qt box for future use. Also, I may inoculate 24 jars, but have some mold-casualties, in which case, I would still need a smaller SGFC. Quote: I only panicked a little because my ambient humidity dropped down to 24%. It seems that isn't the norm, though, because its now up above 30%. But from what you guys are saying, I certainly won't need to worry about humidity for inoculation and colonization. Be warned lol I may revisit this issue in a few weeks as the time gets closer to birthing the cakes. Just being a tad OCD here. Quote: I assume by cultivating you mean the 4ish week colonization period? One thing, though, I am pretty sure that RogerRabbit specifically warns against spraying the sides of the SGFC. I thought he said to spray the cakes and the Perlite, but never the sides of the chamber. I have to go look that up, and if I find it, I will edit this post. But that's assuming I am even remembering this correctly, as I have ridiculous amount of facts swirling around my brain about this topic right now. Edit: I just searched on his site and checked the videos and the text part of his site and found no warnings against spraying the sides of the terrarium, so I was probably wrong about that. Quote: Good idea, I think I will try for 24 but may settle on my original plan of 12. Quote: Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/03/20 02:52 AM)
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Registered: 01/03/10 Posts: 7,244 Last seen: 2 months, 20 days |
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So I'm not sure is Demetrius was doing cakes or grains. With cakes once you hit 100% colonization you want to wait another 5-7 days for the cake to condense. This way the mycelium has time to digest the nutrients before it is ready to birth. Don't forget to dunk and roll.
Spraying the walls of the SFGC is fine, but your aiming for the cakes. I think I read Bodhisatta earlier say, walls don't grow. Lol bit either way it's not gonna hurt anything.
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Quote: Yeah,excellent! This I remember reading in all the Pf Tek discussions, including this forum as well as RogerRabbit's videos and text write-ups about the Tek. Its always good to be reminded of these basics, so THANKS! ![]() Quote: Definitely! I printed out a whole bunch of stuff from various threads on this site about all the pertinent details of this Tek. Additionally, for at least my first time growing, I am going to have my laptop or tablet right next to me at every phase of this. I want to make sure I follow along, particularly with the videos. So, for instance, when I sterilize, I will watch that video a few times before the process, then I will play the video (pausing when necessary) while I am creating the substrate, filling the jars, sterilizing, and so forth. Then I will do the same thing after the pot cools with inoculation. Study the 2nd video five times while I wait for the jars to cool in the sock pot(s) overnight, then play the video while I am doing the cleaning/prepping the SAB, gloving up and Tyvex-sleeving up and cleaning everything with alcohol, including. I think that if I see it all unfolding as I go, pausing, rewinding, etc., that even though this will add time to the procedures, it would be quite beneficial. I may have to stow the video while I'm inoculating, though, as I'm not sure that playing around with my laptop mouse or iPad touchscreen will maintain the proper sterility. Quote: Yeah, as I said, I think I was just flat-out wrong about this, and remembered the wrong facts. Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/03/20 05:31 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to respond to Sockadin separately. Anyway it turns out the spores were NOT late as I thought they were going to be, and I found them in my mailbox when I got home last night! So I can get started. I may need to wait a day or two for real life busyness issues, but the latest I want to get started would be tomorrow or Thursday.
***see pics below in case you have trouble visualizing what I'm talking about These are important questions I need to answer before I get started, so please be patient and indulge me if you will, folks. 1. In some pics in the forum, I noticed that when sterilizing the substrate-filled mason jars, they stacked them two or more high. If I am inoculating 12 or 24 jars, can I stack them on top of one another rather than doing several sterilizing in my stock pot. I have a pressure cooker, and its a nice one, but its only a 7 Quart T-Fal I use for cooking, and it only fits like 5 jars at most, one layer. So until I buy a 23 Quart unit, I will stick to my big stock pot. (Someone answered this in another thread and said stacking was okay, but I want more feedback) 2. Some threads on Pf Tek admonish members to use a hammer and nail for the jar holes, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading some sites that suggested a drill with a 3/32" bit. Can I use a drill instead of a hammer and nail? 3. I read this in a thread. True or not? Quote: This seems like a waste of MS to me. 4. What is the most number of jars I can inoculate with one 10C hyperdermic of Golden Teacher? What I have read says you only need a few drops per hole. If I have very steady hands and soft fingers, can I do all 24 jars with 10 cc or should I use the second syringe I have? I am pretty sure that I can have subtle enough hands that I can really stretch the inoculation from a 10cc syringe to do 24 jars. I'm just not sure this is advisable. If it is all right, then I can save the freebie 10cc Syringe the site sponsor sent me for a subsequent grow. 5. In my largest stock pot, I can fit about 12+ jars, if I stack them in two layers atop my steamer. This is a little complex a question, but I want to do 24 jars. Which means I have to do at least two sterilizations of 12 jars each. The directions for sterilizing are to leave the jars in the stock pot to cool overnight. BUT what if I want to sterilize the second 12 jars immediately after the first? Can I carefully transfer the jars from one stock pot to another so that I can use that same stock pot and metal steamer to do the next 12, so I can then leave the 24 jars overnight? Or would uncovering the pot and transferring them to another pot for cooling ruin the sterilization for the first 12 jars? Alternatively, I can do this in 2 stages. I could sterilize 12 jars, then inoculate them the next morning. Then I could sterilize the next 12 jars while inoculating the first 12, and inoculate the second 12 jars when they cool later that evening. This way, I would still have all 24 jars done the same day, only one set would be inoculated in the morning and the next would be inoculated the evening of the same day. To me, this seems like the better way, rather than trying transfer 12 freshly sterilized and still hot jars to another stock pot, which risks contamination maybe? 6. Assuming I can use a drill for the four jar holes, what size drill should I use for the four lid holes? I was thinking 3/32" 7. Lighting concerns. Do I need to worry about lighting for the jars for the 4 or so weeks that they are colonizing? If so, 12 hours on and 12 hours off with a timer and a lamp with a CFL of 6500K light? Pics: Steamer From Amazon: ![]() ![]() ![]() My Small T-Fal Pressure Cooker which I won't use:
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Registered: 01/03/10 Posts: 7,244 Last seen: 2 months, 20 days |
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On phone so I will do the short answer. The idea is to steam bath the jars in a stock pot. I don't see the point of stacking in a steaming pot because half your jars will not get as hot. I honestly would do 5 different PC runs and make sure they are totally sterile. Your already going to have issues with the possibility of dirty spores just by the nature of how the mushrooms fruit. I say tie up any other areas you can.
You can always PC 5 jars, wait to cool. Then PC five more jars the next night and inoculate the first five. This way you can practice in 5 separate runs instead of a marathon. Plus it gives you something to do for 5 nights straight. Try 2 holes per jar and four inoculation points by squirting one drop in opposite side of the same hole against the glass. This means the needle only goes in the jar 2x so 2x you need to flame the needle. You can get a 6 penny nail and punch the holes. Your hole size needs to be bigger than the needle size. What is the gauge of the needles that came with your syringe? Also lighting isn't as big of a concern at this stage. Edited by Sockadin (03/03/20 12:56 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Quote: From a physics standpoint, I'm not sure I agree with this. Because its supposed to be the steam that sterilizes, not just the heat. Moreover, with a covered pot, I'm quite sure that there would be plenty of heat and steam to sterilize the jars on top, particularly if I stagger them, as I did in that picture. That said, however, this is my first grow, and I made a pact with myself that no matter how much I disagree with advice I am given on this forum, I will defer to the good judgement of the kind folks like you. However, I would like others to chime in. Only because I forgot I asked this question in Ziran's thread [here]. He had this to say: Quote: This is NOT to suggest you're wrong. Only quoting what another person said, who, like you, I consider to be an expert on this Tek. So I am taking my opinions about this completely out of the equation. Hopefully a few more folks can chime in on this so I have as many opinions as possible before making my decision. When two people who know a thousand times more about this than I do give me two different opinions on the same question, I have no basis with which to know who is right. Quote: Oh, God, no. I don't want to kill 5 nights in a row. LMAO when I get started with inoculation, I don't want to do 5 nights in a row. Also, your math is wrong, as it would be 6 nights. Because I can't fit 5 jars in that PC, only 4, as stacking on top would not allow the lid to close. I do have a compromise I would do, and this should still conform 100% to RogerRabbit's video. Assuming you're right, and I shouldn't stack jars, a few minutes ago, I just ordered another one of those metal steamers from Amazon. It will be here tomorrow or Thursday. What I can do is use two of my larger stock pots with two steamers. As you can see in the first pic, that stock pot easily accommodates 8 jars. I just checked with my next largest stock pot using the one steamer I have. It fits 7 jars. So, I can have two sterilizing pots going at once, all without stacking jars! One night I can sterilize 15 pots and the next night I can do the last 9. This would be a lot more manageable from a time management standpoint. Honestly, I only agreed to do this because everyone said how easy it is. Doing this over 5 or 6 nights is NOT my idea of easy. In facts, its honestly a non starter. If fortune smiles upon me, and I get the steamer tomorrow, then I can sterilize 15 jars with substrate tomorrow, and let them all cool in both pots on the stove overnight. Then, the following morning, while the jars are still in the stockpots, I can prepare the 9 jars off to the side with the substrate mix. Then, I can remove the 15 jars that have cooled and place them in my freshly cleaned SAB. Then those 9 remaining jars I can start sterilizing. Once the water boils, it means I will have roughly 90 minutes to inoculate the first 15 jars. This would be Thursday morning. I'm sure that n00b or not, I will be able to inoculate all the jars within, the 90 minutes? The only hitch would then be that I would have to take a few breaks from inoculating in order to make sure the water hasn't boiled off, and to add any water I need if it does. This would be a pain in the ass, obviously, since I would have to clean my arm Tyvek sleeves with alcohol again, as well as change gloves, applying alcohol to them as well again. Then, I can set those 9 jars to cool as I did the first 15, and I will be able to inoculate that evening, right? This way, start to finish, for that whole phase would be about 24 hours or so, not 5 nights in a row. Edit: Okay, here's another thought. What if, instead of sterilizing 90 minutes from the time it starts boiling, I did 2 hours? Would that be more conducive to stacking a few jars? Quote: So why not use my drill? I have a lot of different sized bits. Nobody seems to have an answer to this, but I believe RogerRabbit says to drill the holes? Not sure, though. If I do need to use a nail, then I would then have to get a block of wood or something to rest the lids on hammering holes. What do you mean by "punch" the holes? Is this another tool, or am I using a hammer? Oh, and the gauge of the needles in my spores are 16G, 1 1/2 inches. Though, there is some sort of a safety covering on the syringes, but its very small and it doesn't look like there's a needle in there. Looks like I have to take the cover off and put the 16G pins in manually. As for the holes, with all due respect, RogerRabbit says 4 holes per jar, so until I have some experience under my belt, I am following his video as if it were my religion. lol Quote: Not as big a concern or not a concern at all? That is very ambiguous, to be honest. Do I use external lighting on the inoculated jars or not? Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/03/20 01:44 PM)
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Registered: 01/03/10 Posts: 7,244 Last seen: 2 months, 20 days |
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This post is so enjoyable because it reminds me of all the thoughts and questions. I had to figure out years ago, thank goodness for this site.
Ok, so stacking is absolutely fine. So is drilling holes. 16 gauge needles are 1/16 diameter so 3/32 is perfect to give you a little room. We are just giving suggestions, there are millions of ways to achieve the end result. I like doing a little cultivation every night. Also practicing sterile technique takes time. You will learn what movements work and don't work in you SAB. Your gonna have a moment when you forget to flame a needle, it just happens. That's the only reason I like the idea of turning 2 days of Most important thing for me is just enjoying the process. From making jars or grains to agar to making tubs. It's all fun. Lighting is beneficial but not critical while you are colonizing the jars. It becomes really important once you move to fruiting because it helps with fruit body development. If you put the colonizing jars on a shelf in the living room your good. That's all they need.
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Thank you again for all your detailed answers, Sockadin!
Quote: I should have realized this on my own, but THANKS for elucidating. It makes sense, too. But in my myopic focus to stay completely and totally on point with the proper techniques, I have been a little tunnel-visioned. Unconsciously assuming that I needed to follow one way and only one way. What you said makes perfect sense, in that its more like following a cooking recipe than being back in a college chem lab, where one drop either way, or +/- 5 degrees could ruin an experiment. I think its good probably that I am adhering as much as humanly possible to RogerRabbit's videos, and only deviating or questioning in areas where his vids and site-text are somewhat ambiguous, or things his videos simply don't cover, like stacking jars, etc. As for what you say about it being fun, I don't doubt it! But right now, having not done this, the whole thing is not only very exciting, but stressful, and there is a component of fear as well. Particularly after seeing the parts of his videos where he shows jars full of mold that are beyond salvation and have to be tossed. Of course, much to my chagrin, he never bothers to say if this can happen or does happen even when you do everything right. Perhaps this is why I am so paranoid about making sure to get every, last, tiny, little detail correct, because I'm not sure how much margin of error I really do have, and how much of my colonizing jars and fruiting cakes are up to the fickle gods of mushroom growing, and how much is actually under my control. He never delineates whether or not those moldy jars, which he shows in Video #2 from about 04:48 to about 05:50 are the result of serious user error, minor user error, or even worse, if it actually happens sometimes even when you do everything right. I think that I may eventually share your enthusiasm for the fun of each step, But right now, I just want to make sure that I stack every card in the deck in my favor that I possible can. Just in case. Now below, I wanted to re-post some of the questions I asked that have not received answers yet. Since I'm playing the final waiting game, with the second steamer and my lights on the way, I will quote myself here. Unfortunately, when your posts are as long and detailed as mine tend to be, it means that some of the many questions I ask are buried, and the sheer wall-o-text can make people's eyes glaze over and parts of my questions may get mixed. ________________________________ From Above: 3. I read this in a thread. True or not? Quote: This seems like a waste of MS to me. 4. What is the most number of jars I can inoculate with one 10C hyperdermic of Golden Teacher? What I have read says you only need a few drops per hole. If I have very steady hands and soft fingers, can I do all 24 jars with 10 cc or should I use the second syringe I have? I am pretty sure that I can have subtle enough hands that I can really stretch the inoculation from a 10cc syringe to do 24 jars. I'm just not sure this is advisable. If it is all right, then I can save the freebie 10cc Syringe the site sponsor sent me for a subsequent grow. 7. You answered this partly, but I have a follow-up. I ordered these lights from Amazon. They are 6500K 100 Watt CFL lights. Will these be fine for fruiting? Also, even if not absolutely necessary while colonizing, would it be beneficial at all if I did have a lamp over all 24 jars, and set the 12 hour on/off timer? -This is a question from a while ago that never got answered. Is there ANY benefit at all to misting my colonizing jars with the holes in the top? If so, how much? Or should I just avoid misting all together, and trust that what's in the jar only needs the gas exchange via the holes and needs ZERO help from me for those 4-6 weeks other than making sure to maintain room temperature?
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Registered: 01/03/10 Posts: 7,244 Last seen: 2 months, 20 days |
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Cool to clarify. When you flame sterlize your needle. Any spores in the needle are dead, your flaming the needle to kill everything inside, so squirt that little bit out to cool the syringe and also remove that mess before you inoculate.
If both syringes are GT, then yes you could do all the jars with one syringe, but if they are different varieties, I would go half in half. So when you are ready for agar, you have spores. If you want to remove 100% of the unknowns start with agars and go. Spore>agar>agar>LC>cake. Because all mushrooms fruit in some form of open air, when the veil breaks and the caps open, there will me mold spores that mix with the fruit Bodie, and bacteria. Once that cap is printed and used to make a syringe, your syringe will have a contaminated in it. You will loose some jars, that is why everyone praises agar, it is easy and safer for the time vs financial investment. Also that light is good. Do just what you suggested. Also don't beat your self up if you accidentally squirt 2 CC's in one hole. The spores can clump and then you end up pushing hard to get it to release and baM! You just shot one jar with 2 CC's... It happens to everyone. Edited by Sockadin (03/03/20 09:10 PM)
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Woodland Creature Registered: 06/11/19 Posts: 1,237 Last seen: 3 years, 3 months |
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Wow, that's a lot. Haha, I'll start small..
Using a drill is fine. It's what I always use. Either way. Doesn't matter. Just make a hole your needle will fit through. Also, I understand the instinct or urge to have your laptop right next to you while you do this reading to shroomery text the whole way. I recommend against it. I tried doing similar when I started and it cause overthinking and confusion. You're better off hand writing a short bullet point or outline of the steps you need to do, in short one or two sentence commands, and using that instead of the overwhelming amount of information available on this site. You can read through as many posts as you want to make this outline, but keeping this outline short and simple who make your work easier. -------------------- Randalf the Grey Lost in the right direction A wizard is never late..........but I can try Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries LAGM2O2O Grow Log Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart Edited by Randalf the Grey (03/03/20 10:24 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 01/09/20 Posts: 40 Loc: Yes Last seen: 1 year, 7 months |
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So back to my earlier comment, I meant colonizing not cultivating with spraying your storage mode SAB which is just if it bothers you that much, doubtful it would matter, and I'm doing rye grain but like sockadin said you have to wait an extra week for it to be thorough. I did a pound which probably equates a quart size jar, so given the size difference and inclusive factors a month or less seems reasonable.
As far as pinning, mine had to colonize more stuff after the original colonization but still pinned in 2-3 weeks, fruiting/pinning starts when the mycelium has colonized all available material, so when you crack your finished jars my guess is pinky tip size fruits/pins after a week. Idk the stats with a steamer but a pressure cooker is worshipped because of the PRREEEEESSSHUUUUUUUUU (meme), as in the steamer lets more steam escape, a PC gets every nook and cranny. So in theory if you could secure the steamer lid with clamps or something to work close to a gasket stacking the jars should work. As far as flame sterilizing, I think every inoc is kinda overkill, I'm a n00b as well so, don't flame me too hard s-senpai(s). Every few jars should work if you properly sanitized your SAB and sterilized your jars correctly while making good pace. Sorta along that same point, use common sense. Environmental factors vary greatly but mold takes hold in the grain, with that foothold has an advantage over mycelium which is why sterility isn't as drastically important after initial colonization. The actual point though, mold spores or endospores are too small to see and who knows where they are because there doesn't have to be mold for them to be around, they either stick to what they're on or float in the air, follow the SAB principal and turn your ac/heater fan off. Take a shower and do it naked if that gives you peace of mind. Mushrooms grow all over the world in nature, with many adversities, it's an art more than a science, but there is science in the details like reducing the possibility of contaminants, which is why you sterilize jars, to further remove contams you use SAB, so you've minimized contamination greatly, ask yourself what else you can do, work in a clean room? Somewhere with no air flow? Mull over what you can do to innovate while following the tech, sterilize your drill bit or nail for making holes. You really do have tunnel vision, no offense. If you can't manage doing x amount of jars, do less if you want to get it all done and out of the way, find a healthy balance of how many holes you inoc per jar, how often to flame sterilize and how much you spray from MS. If you do a bunch of jars like 24 then you're better off with 2 holes because it needs the tiniest gas exchange and are you really prepared to squirt a quarter or less cc per 1/4 holes 80 times? If you don't use 2 holes but make 4, that's just more contamination points, critical thinking is your friend, know what you're walking into. Past the Tek instructions you may have to improvise. Like what if you do 2cc into a single jar because it wouldn't go until it went, are you gonna drop everything and ask online how to proceed? Certain things will just require adaption and ingenuity, I'm sorry man, I just see you making problems for yourself left and right. -------------------- This account is purely theoretical, I will be king of the pirates!
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Registered: 01/03/10 Posts: 7,244 Last seen: 2 months, 20 days |
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Demetrius, your heart is in the right place, but some of your info scares me. Flame sterilizing your nail makes no sense because the jar is empty.
Working in a SAB naked is a terrible idea, humans are walking mold factories. You should not wait for consolidation with grain jars. 100% coverage and you want to go directly to spawn or GRG.
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Woodland Creature Registered: 06/11/19 Posts: 1,237 Last seen: 3 years, 3 months |
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For safety reasons, please do not clamp or seal your steamer's lid closed.
I think the idea being gotten at here is that water, at normal atmospheric pressure can only ever be less than 212°F. Steam, however is slightly hotter. With a lid, even a regular sauce pot with build a slight bit of pressure and bring the temp of the steam inside the pot up a bit. This is what does the "sterilizing" when using this method, not the water in the bottom of the pot. For this reason you want as much of the jar exposed to steam (out of the water) as possible. I have always heard at least >50% but 33% was recommended. I have no info on this number other than what I read and heard. This is the limiting factor at times. More jars can raise water level beyond this point in order to not run out of water mid-boil. -------------------- Randalf the Grey Lost in the right direction A wizard is never late..........but I can try Randalf's Book of Genesis: In The Beginning - Teks, ratios, recipes and log entries LAGM2O2O Grow Log Genesis II: Electric Boogaloo - The Restart
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Okay, so I want to respond to all the informative posts in here. So rather than having one HUGE post with dozens of quote trees, I will make three separate posts. Sorry in advance for the triple-post.
Quote: Great to know! The dumb question I need to ask, however, is why doesn't RogerRabbit admonish us to do that? Nowhere in his video or accompanying text-pages does he even hint at this. Let me ask this in another way: Is there a rationale for his not discarding a bit after every flame-sterilization of the needle? Also, this begs the potentially more important question, will it hurt anything if I don't discard those first few drops? I mean, okay, what's actually in the shaft of the metal part of the needle, it has to be an infinitesimal amount. I don't know how many milliliters would be in that tiny space, but maybe the better plan would be to simply remember to do an EXTRA drop or two into that first hole in the jar than to discard the first drops because its hard to be completely certain how much was actually in the needle versus how much you are tossing away from the actual syringe? Also, here's a thought, and give me your opinions on this: I'm sure what you're saying is true, about killing off any spores in the metal part of the needle. So why not simply pull slightly back on the plunger before flame sterilizing the needle, and I mean very slightly, pulling whatever's in the needle back into the chamber of the syringe? I know I'm a noob, and if you guys say not to do that, I won't. Because you folks have made all the mistakes I haven't even thought of yet. lol But I'm just trying to spitball a little here. IN an effort to waste as little as possible. At least for my FIRST run at this. Quote: Holy shit, dude, this is an amazing idea that never even occurred to me! For the record, I purchased on syringe of Golden Teacher, and the second one is a strain I never heard of, called Costa Rico. But I am definitely going to do this YOUR way! In the first place, if the sponsor site didn't offer me a free syringe for mentioning this site, I was going to order two anyway. The reason is obvious. Me being a n00blet at this means that I may, in my exuberance and/or impatience, very easily pump more solution into some or many holes than I intend to. I hope that's not true, obviously! I mean, how awesome would it be if I could manage to stay so calm and use such light fingers that I can inoculate 24 jars with a mere 10ccs into four holes each, for a total of..................wait for it............wait for it.....96 holes? Fantastic, yes, but for me to actually expect those kind of results would make me a little delusional, I think. Maybe in a year or two I will be so amzingly steady with my hands that this might be a more realistic goal. However, I am perfectly willing to accept that I may end up blowing through all or maybe most of both syringes. And if so, then oh well. Because honestly, with all the money I put into this project so far, the spores were actually one of the lesser expensive components of this project I'm undertaking. Hopefully I will have better results than 20cc's needed for 24 jars, hopefully a lot better. If not, then by paying $26.50 with shipping for two syringes, that means a whopping $13.25 per syringe. Honestly, that's what it costs for a medium priced lunch. At those prices, and assuming my success in this endeavor, its pretty easy to order more syringes next time, if I either use all or most of these two. Assuming everything is colonized, birthed, and fruited successfully, I doubt very much I'm going to care all that much for the extra $13.25 it cost me now. Quote: We're totally going to have this conversation later, my friend! Hopefully in depth. For now, I am filing this idea away with a big, thick pin stuck in it so that I can revisit it in depth once ALL my jars are inoculated. Right now, I am sort of teetering on the edge of a cliff, metaphorically speaking. I don't even want to think about all of this other stuff until all jars are inoculated and I will then have a 4-6 week breather to educate myself further, with all of your help of course! Quote: Cool! Glad I ordered the lights then! Quote: Well everything I have been studying leads me to believe that this is not only possible, but inevitable. When I received the syringes yesterday, the first thing I did was visually inspect them before stowing them in the fridge. I noticed that the Golden Teacher has this big, black gob that looks quite solid. The Costa Rico has basically a boatload of very small particles in the suspension. I called the un-named site sponsor to make sure that these weren't bad batches, and she assured me that the big gob in the GT and the much smaller, but incredibly plentiful particles in the Costa Rico were not only inevitable and unavoidable, but really a great thing. The way she explained if to me is that the reason for their presence is because these solutions are jam-packed with spores. She also touched on what you did while I had her on the phone. Of course, to legally protect herself, she always referred to injecting it on a slide lol, but we both knew exactly what we were talking about. She basically said that because there are so many particles in the CR and one, big mass in the GT, that if I feel ANY resistance at all to my pushing, instead of forcing it, that I should pull back on the plunger a little to pull out the particles or gobs that are blocking the lumen of the needle. She also mentioned, I think (but I'm not sure) that I could also shake the needle again several times while I'm inoculating ![]() But, yeah. All this is by way of saying that I expect that wastage and mis-pushes and too much solution in some holes will likely happen. Oh well. Cost of doing business, I suppose. Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/04/20 10:28 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Quote: As soon as I read this I knew you were right. Way too distracting to try and keep playing with a laptop, cell phone, or tablet while doing this. I agree about the crib notes. Also, I can prepare as much as possible for this by studying up really hard on each stage BEFORE I start that one, compartmentalized stage. So, before I mix the substrate and put it all into the jars, then sterilize in my stock pots, I will watch that entire video 4-5 times, trying just get that one area down. Then, while the jars are cooling overnight or during the day, if I start in the morning, I have 8-12 hours to then study up again and cram on how to prepare and inoculate in my SAB. This seems like a much more rational plan than trying to have the videos on hand. This might work if I had a lab partner helping me, who could rewind and fast forward and pause the video on command. But your way is honestly much better.
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Stranger Registered: 02/05/20 Posts: 708 Last seen: 2 years, 8 months |
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Demetrius18, I definitely agree with you about being adaptive, and obviously if some little thing goes wrong, particularly in the inoculation phase, rationally I can't just drop everything and log onto this forum for help. I'm with you there!
Quote: Yeah, I'm not Wile E. Coyote, so don't worry about that. There is no way I would put normal stock pots under that kind of pressure. That would be quite dangerous. Though, I have to admit, the imagery that conjures up is absolutely hilarious. I wonder if perhaps Demetrius was not being entirely serious about that? Quote: Not just for this project, but for any cooking I might do, when not using a pressure cooker, its important to allow steam to dissipate from the sides of a lid. Yes, the lid makes somewhat of a seal due to the shape of the pot and fitted lid, but its not supposed to be perfect. That's what pressure cookers are for. The last thing you want to do hahaha is turn your stock pot lid into a projectile with clamps. At that point, I may as well put shrapnel in there. Just for shits and giggles. Which is why I don't think Demetrius18 was being entirely serious. Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/04/20 04:42 AM)
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