|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: footpath]
#26525109 - 03/09/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
footpath said: That's pretty warm. I'd cut that heat back to ~70F.
That may be problematic. I could try turning the furnace down a little, but other than some form of refrigeration, I don't see how I can lower the temperature any more. I am going to try sticking a thermometer into my bedroom closet. It is in the front of my apartment and the front of the house, and it gets drafty in that room, especially at night. Since this is a second floor apartment, the furnace is in the basement, and it is located in the back of the house. So the heat doesn't reach there very well. The problem is on a warm day, this could also mean it may get a little warmer in that closet.
Also, not trying to argue, because you guys know way more about this than me, but I was referred by MANY people to RogerRabbit's videos. He clearly and unequivocally states that 75 degrees to 81 degrees is the sweet spot. So I am forced to ask, not because I know anything, since I don't, but because now I am getting conflicting information from trusted sources.
See Video#2 at 04:02:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/09/20 07:44 AM)
|
footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
Posts: 1,367
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26525136 - 03/09/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
You're in Brooklyn? I'm not far. Open a window  Maybe not today though... getting vernal up in here.
Those temperatures are optimal for clean cultures that are expertly transferred to properly prepared and sterilized grain/spawn substrates. Bacteria and molds grow much much faster than cube mycelium, especially given those temperatures they thrive in. So, because syringes are inherently infected, you aren't really working with the parameters required to be able to run those temperatures.
Also of note is that the internal temperature of a jar can easily be a few (I've read 10-15) degrees higher than your ambient temperature.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: footpath]
#26525175 - 03/09/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
footpath said: You're in Brooklyn? I'm not far. Open a window  Maybe not today though... getting vernal up in here.
Those temperatures are optimal for clean cultures that are expertly transferred to properly prepared and sterilized grain/spawn substrates. Bacteria and molds grow much much faster than cube mycelium, especially given those temperatures they thrive in. So, because syringes are inherently infected, you aren't really working with the parameters required to be able to run those temperatures.
Also of note is that the internal temperature of a jar can easily be a few (I've read 10-15) degrees higher than your ambient temperature.
You're near NYC? Whereabouts?
Okay, so I just measured, and my kitchen window, in the back of the apartment/house, is 3 feet away from the jars closest to it. So when the outside temp cools down, I can open a window. Also, I went downstairs about an hour ago and lowered the thermostat for the furnace. It was set at 72 degrees and I lowered the thermostat to to 68 degrees. I noticed that the temp in the kitchen came down a few degrees. Right now, its a hair over 74 degrees in the kitchen.
Also, why doesn't RR say that in his video? He never comments in any way about the purity of spores in a retail MS syringe. I'm not saying you're wrong. I certainly have no basis to make that claim. But nowhere in any of his videos, which clearly he is targeting n00bs like me with them, does he ever mention that his temperature guidelines are contingent on perfectly cultured spores in aqueous solution.
Would anyone else like to add opinions to this?
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/09/20 08:59 AM)
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26525186 - 03/09/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
syringes are not 100% clean.
colonizing in the upper 70s-80s favors growth of those not so clean baddies. slightly lower temp all has to do with increasing the noobs chances
thats also why its recommended to keep cakes whole instead of spawning them. spawned cakes have to rebuild their network. that not so clean syringe could serious hinder the recovery leading to mold.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: mushboy]
#26525194 - 03/09/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushboy said: syringes are not 100% clean.
In no way am I saying they are. I would have no basis, nor the knowledge, to make such an assertion. I am simply quoting RR's video's, which everyone is telling me is the Gold standard for PF Tek. Again, not arguing with you. You say one thing, he says another. Maybe you're right. But I have absolutely no way of knowing who to believe here. That's why I am asking others to chime in if possible. Thanks, and I apologize if it seems like I'm arguing. Its like going to two highly respected surgeons at the top of their field so you can get a second opinion. If the two experts give contradictory advice, the patient then has a decision to make.
Edit: Oops. Sorry, I thought you were footpath. So now I have two forum opinions to one RR opinion. So now I guess I have to get a few more opinions and then if I need to lower ambient temp, will have to come up with a way.
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/09/20 09:12 AM)
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26525200 - 03/09/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
no ones giving contradictory advice dude your just over complicating shit into something its not.
colonizing in upper 70s will work. go to town doing that. footpath was just pointing out that he feels thats a tad warm, especially for pf cakes made with not so clean syringes. i agree with him.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: mushboy]
#26525215 - 03/09/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushboy said: no ones giving contradictory advice dude your just over complicating shit into something its not.
colonizing in upper 70s will work. go to town doing that. footpath was just pointing out that he feels thats a tad warm, especially for pf cakes made with not so clean syringes. i agree with him.
Okay, let's take a step back for a moment, because I don't want this to become contentious or appear as if I am being a contrarian here. I don't see how I am over-complicating things, nor am I saying you guys are wrong. I am simply confused by what RR says versus what you guys are saying. I'm not even saying that he is right and you guys are wrong. But there is a divide between what you're saying and what he says, with regard to optimal temperature while colonizing. Please don't turn this into me looking to pick a fight, throwing your sage advice back in your face, or me accusing you of daring to contradict the great RogerRabbit. I just think my question is inherently valid.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26525241 - 03/09/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
yah your over complicating
Quote:
Okay, so I just measured, and my kitchen window, in the back of the apartment/house, is 3 feet away from the jars closest to it. So when the outside temp cools down, I can open a window. Also, I went downstairs about an hour ago and lowered the thermostat for the furnace. It was set at 72 degrees and I lowered the thermostat to to 68 degrees. I noticed that the temp in the kitchen came down a few degrees. Right now, its a hair over 74 degrees in the kitchen
thats got to be the most drawn out over complication to jar temp ive read in awhile. 68-74f sounds groovy.
just colonize at whatever room temp you got bro. are they even inoculated yet? i lost track.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: mushboy]
#26525261 - 03/09/20 09:56 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
First off, I apologize if anything I said came off as argumentative. You guys are really helping me an awful lot, and I won't pay back your kindness with being a jackass in this thread.
Quote:
mushboy said: thats got to be the most drawn out over complication to jar temp ive read in awhile. 68-74f sounds groovy.
Perhaps I am over-complicating. But its only because I want to make absolutely certain I am following RogerRabbit's advice and the forum's expert advice as meticulously as I possibly can. I suppose maybe that is giving me the propensity to over-complicate. But I'm hoping that by being a bit anal about this that it predisposes me to less mistakes, a much larger margin for error, and a better chance for a great yield at the end of all this than if I am more laid back about it.
Quote:
mushboy said: just colonize at whatever room temp you got bro. are they even inoculated yet? i lost track.
Yes, I inoculated this past Friday at about 3:00 PM EST. So in a few hours, it will be starting day 4, post-inoculation. (See previous page for pics and updates if you want).
|
footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
Posts: 1,367
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 2
#26525348 - 03/09/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I might be guilty of fueling the over-complication a bit. My bad.
It's just, when I see temps of ~75ºF in early March in the Mid-Atlantic, it makes me think you were supplementing the heat. Or you're a displaced Florida cat cranking that heating system. Personally, I'd be sweating my balls off if my house were that temperature and opening my windows in the dead of winter.
If you're not supplementing, don't worry about it too much. But if you can drop it a bit, that would be ideal for your situation.
And, honestly, the RR videos are a great starting place for general reference, but, at the end of the day, just about every damn process in this is just getting a feel for what's right for your situation. Too often have I follow a tek too closely and, because of slightly different ingredients or situations, had them fail on me. The folks active here are the living addendum to all of the teks and informational videos that have ever been created. From Oslo to Phoenix and everywhere in between, there's probably someone around that can give you better advice that is more pertinent to your situation.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: footpath]
#26525527 - 03/09/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
In case I don't say it enough, I want to express my profound gratitude to all of you for all of your sage wisdom, incredibly helpful insights, and your instructions. Regardless of how this particular grow goes, thanks everyone!
That said, I decided to take a memory down Trip-lane today. Since the heavy-lifting is all done, and now I am tasked with waiting 4-6 weeks, I figured this was a good time to check in. In a 12 hour fasting state, I ground up 6 Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, and just ate the powder. Meanwhile, about 4 hours earlier, I did a simple, easy-peasy cold water extraction of 10 grams of Heavenly Blue MG seeds. About 40+ minutes after eating the powder I drank about 20% of the 16 ounce cold tea. Not peaking quite yet, as its only about 2.5 hours in. And....holy crap, sorry! I just realized this is way off topic.
Anyway, back on topic, thanks again all! You guys are amazing, each and every one of you! (and wow, not sure how much more I can abuse exclamation points in one post).

Edit: Don't worry about fueling anything, footpath! I am a fellow traveler, and as such, I'm looking for the analysis and criticism of my often wackadoodle behavior. What you guys are giving me isn't supposed to always be easy to swallow. In my experience, truth often isn't.
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/09/20 01:42 PM)
|
Randalf the Grey
Woodland Creature


Registered: 06/11/19
Posts: 1,237
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 2
#26532037 - 03/13/20 03:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Only been a few days, but how's everything going brother? First signs of growth yet?
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26532392 - 03/13/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: Only been a few days, but how's everything going brother? First signs of growth yet?
Hey brother, thanks for checking in! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I have been insanely busy. Anyway, there is definitely some cottony growth on the vast majority of the jars. So I will give a complete update now.
Somehow I made a huge mistake with two of the 24 jars. Now sure how I managed this, but when I looked at two jars with zero sign of any growth of any kind, I looked closer, and saw that they were the only two jars with no inoculation holes in the micropore tape. Meaning the holes were in the jars, but it was totally obvious when I looked closer that the tape on none of these 8 holes (2 jars) were pierced. So, annoyed at myself, I inoculated the two jars, all 8 holes yesterday and labeled them with the inoculation date, since they are mixed in with the other 22 jars. D-oh! Anyway, I didn't break out SAE box for two jars, but I pulled out the Costa Rico syringe, which had more leftover MS than the Golden Teacher syringe, and rather than put alcohol in the bunsen burner, I just flame sterilized the needle with my stove. lol Probably a bad idea, and if these two jars go down in flames, it is what it is. I did alcohol the needle between the two jars and flame sterilized it again between the jars. I will be watching those two like a hawk the next few days. I really have no idea how the hell I screwed up and failed to inoculate two of the jars last week. Oh well.
Okay, so 4 hours from now will mark 7 full days, ie. 168 hours since inoculating last Friday.
All 22 jars that were inoculating are showing signs varying from small amounts all the way down to infinitesimal, barely perceptible changes. I won't bore you all with 24 pictures of every jar, but I snapped a few pics that represent the three different states all 22 jars are in.
About 11 jars have varying amounts of growth similar to this, where its obviously proliferating. At least something is: lol


________________________________________
Two jars have this miniscule growth:


The rest have growth that is smaller than the first group, but still pretty obvious upon visual inspection, and within this range. Sort of in between those two extremes.
|
Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26532417 - 03/13/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Looking good so far.
I wouldn't worry about the two jars you did late. They will be fine as long as the needle got hot shouldn't be a problem there either.
|
Randalf the Grey
Woodland Creature


Registered: 06/11/19
Posts: 1,237
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin] 1
#26532798 - 03/13/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
That's awesome man. Great news. Once you get those first signs of growth it's kinda like a rocket ride. Good or bad, there's no stopping or course changes. Just ride it out. You've asked great questions, taken advice, and put more than enough thought into your steps and actions! There is always a chance when using an MSS that you do everything right and still get a contaminated jar. The syringe may be really really really clean, but that can never be 100%.
In the words of the almighty himself, Jean-Luc Picard; "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
Can't wait to see your end results man. Good job and good luck!
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26532826 - 03/13/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Sockadin said: Looking good so far.
I wouldn't worry about the two jars you did late. They will be fine as long as the needle got hot shouldn't be a problem there either.
Great to know, man, thanks! I had a feeling this was the case, because a few page back, I think it was Randalf that said, once sterilized, the jars can stay as just un-inoculated for weeks. So I kind of assumed that 6 days wouldn't be so bad, but I wanted to make sure.
As for the inoculation problem, I'm not sure what kind of a margin of error I have with lax inoculation procedures like I did yesterday. lol Using a stove-top burner to sterilize the needle, no SAB, no sterile environment. Though I did alcohol off the counter top next to the stove that I used to inoculate the two jars. I wasn't too concerned with whether or not these two jars turn out good or bad, so much as I just wanted to see what would happen. 
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: That's awesome man. Great news. Once you get those first signs of growth it's kinda like a rocket ride. Good or bad, there's no stopping or course changes. Just ride it out.
Yeah, now its just a matter of waiting the 4-6 weeks. I think that was the time frame for full colonization plus the extra week.
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: You've asked great questions, taken advice, and put more than enough thought into your steps and actions!
I am trying to learn from the experts, and luckily you guys were around to help me through this.
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: There is always a chance when using an MSS that you do everything right and still get a contaminated jar. The syringe may be really really really clean, but that can never be 100%.
Yeah, I figured this to be the case. Plus, if I understand you correctly, you said a contaminated jar, which I take to mean that (maybe wishful thinking on my part) it would only be one or two jars out of the whole mess of them that go bad? If so, then boy, am I glad I inoculated 24 jars.
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: In the words of the almighty himself, Jean-Luc Picard; "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
Funny you should say this. I just finished watching the latest Star Trek Picard a couple of minutes ago.
Quote:
Randalf the Grey said: Can't wait to see your end results man. Good job and good luck! 
Thanks so much!!
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26535904 - 03/15/20 03:35 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Getting a little ahead of myself, I have a question about the perlite. It’s very easy to end up with a clogged drain washing it through a big food strainer in your sink. because the screen is not going to catch everything. Obviously I would also have a small strainer inside the bottom of the sink. But when water is flowing sometimes those little strainers move and let stuff through. Perlite getting through will cause clogs. Are there any other gizmos or other devices you guys might recommend to allow water through without letting the perlite into the drain? Obviously I mean aside from the little strainers that go in the bottom of the sink already.
Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/15/20 03:42 AM)
|
AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] 2
#26535986 - 03/15/20 05:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
high thread-count cheese clothe... that's what I use to strain rye berries right before steam-drying them.
Edited by AtmozFear (03/15/20 05:42 AM)
|
Randalf the Grey
Woodland Creature


Registered: 06/11/19
Posts: 1,237
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: AtmozFear] 1
#26536132 - 03/15/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Even low thread count cheese cloth can work if folded enough. You can also use a sock or t shirt. Not perfect but will work in a pinch. Also, if you have a strainer, you can sit it over a bucket to rinse then toss the rinse water outside so the drain is not even in the equation. I clogged my bathtub drain more than once rinsing bird seed before I started figuring out better ways of rinsing\draining.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Randalf the Grey]
#26536379 - 03/15/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks for the info guys! OK so if I use a shirt or a cheesecloth, am I lining the inside of the big spaghetti strainer with it? Or am I using it to cover the drain-hole so that no particles go through into the actual drain?
|
|