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Offlinefootpath
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26522706 - 03/07/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Not necessarily, but likely.
Some inoculations may have more spores that are more viable/compatible, so they may germinate faster and outperform other contaminant cultures.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: footpath]
    #26522711 - 03/07/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
Not necessarily, but likely.
Some inoculations may have more spores that are more viable/compatible, so they may germinate faster and outperform other contaminant cultures.




Great thanks! Since you answered so quickly, let me also ask this: I was on my phone doing a Google search on PF Tek for inoculated 1/2 pint substrate jars, and came across a few people complaining about a "50% success rate" with them. Is this true? If so, why doesn't RogerRabbit and pretty much every proponent of PF Tek warn n00bs like me about this beforehand? Seems like this would be a good way to temper expectations. Yet the first time I heard about this anecdotal stat is just a few minutes ago from my aforementioned Google search. Ha! If this is really true, and I hope it isn't, I would really have liked to have this information a week or two ago, not after I inoculated 24 jars. :laugh:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26522721 - 03/07/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

U made the right call of not taking photos during your inoculation step. You focused on the clean task well. :thumbup:

As for getting molds, its usually random in my experience. Such as one of two jars will get it or a bunch. Its never all or nothing. Mycology can be a bit unpredictable with MS syringes. :shrug:


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26522728 - 03/07/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

RR made those videos in the early 2000


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26522744 - 03/07/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Great, thanks, guys! So I guess the real question, is are those various sites correct, with people complaining of a 50% failure rate when inoculating jars using PF TEK?

Although something just occurred to me as I was writing this post. Maybe not everybody is as fastidious and disciplined about proper sterilization, and using an SAB in a way that keeps everything clean?


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26522747 - 03/07/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Like Logical said,
MS syringes are just unpredictable. Some vendors do a really good job at keeping them quite clean, but the nature of them is just not reliable.
I think saying they're 50% effective isn't accurate. But it can be. And it also can be 100% success or failure.
The reason they're so novice-friendly is that it just requires a spore syringe, jars, and a few ingredients. Everything else, for the most part, is a household item - especially with the original PF Tek.
The accessibility is why it's still so popular.


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: footpath] * 1
    #26522772 - 03/07/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Footpath has it right on this one. Spore syringes as essentially fruited mushrooms to print, then the prints are made into a syringe. There is no guarantee of cleanliness because they are for microscopy only.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26522794 - 03/07/20 07:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Good info to know. While I won’t name the site sponsor, since it isn’t allowed, my understanding is that this particular company is supposed to be the best for “spores“ LOL so, right or wrong, I have faith that they sent me two syringes that were free of contaminants. Hopefully I’ll know in a few days to a week whether the inoculation to the substrate, and initial colonization took hold or didn’t.

Here’s a question I may or may not have asked before: would it be a good or bad idea if I were to mist these jars occasionally with water? Or should I just leave them alone? Even though it’s probably a superfluous gesture, I am using a 6500 Kelvin CFL I picked up off Amazon, 12 hours on during the day, and 12 hours off.


Edited by LSA Woodrose (03/07/20 07:58 PM)


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OfflineBarrel
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose]
    #26522837 - 03/07/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

This thread makes my head hurt every time I read it.

Follow a tek. Any tek. Just follow it.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26523135 - 03/08/20 12:01 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
U made the right call of not taking photos during your inoculation step. You focused on the clean task well. :thumbup:




Yeah, I totally agree. And my complete inexperience with these types of fastidious procedures really reared its head during the inoculation stage. I know, for instance. that I moved my arms around too much where the Tyvex sleeves rolled or bunched up, and I am 100% sure I wasn't nearly still enough overall, and I created too many air currents for a still air box. But, like any skillset, I'm sure you get better at this with practice.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
As for getting molds, its usually random in my experience. Such as one of two jars will get it or a bunch. Its never all or nothing. Mycology can be a bit unpredictable with MS syringes. :shrug:




I wasn't aware that syringes were this problematic But yeah, I mean, its been a whopping 40'ish hours since I inoculated the jars, and already I'm getting impatient to see subtle changes that aren't going to happen for about a week or more. lol


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26523203 - 03/08/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Usually 5 to a 7 days you will see growth. It can take awhile.

footpath, I agree 100%. The accessibility makes it very user-friendly.


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26523224 - 03/08/20 01:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Good info to know. While I won’t name the site sponsor, since it isn’t allowed, my understanding is that this particular company is supposed to be the best for “spores“ LOL so, right or wrong, I have faith that they sent me two syringes that were free of contaminants.




This is why agar is important. Spores are not suppose to be 100% contam free. With agar you clean it up, this is why we use agar and not just inoculate straight to grain, or pf tek..I don't like pf tekbecause it is a hit and miss. Don't get me wrong its nice to start out, but you seem like a smart dude.

Doing pf tek is like..well, i don't mind risking jars, I just want to get some fruits so I can learn. But why do that? Just start from beginning and learn the hard way first. Hell, pf tek is difficult for a brand new grower, may as well get into the habit of doing it clean- your gunna spend time and enegry anyways, just do it right so you get into good habits quickly


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: woofwoof]
    #26523431 - 03/08/20 06:39 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Usually 5 to a 7 days you will see growth. It can take awhile.





Yeah, just to be clear, I feel unbelievably impatient to see my jars begin to turn white at the 4 inoculation points, and see that mycelium slowly take over the entire jars, like the beautiful, mind-altering fungus it is. But, of course, I'm a rational adult and know that this takes time. Haha, I guess my biggest thing is I want to know, not in 5-7 days, but yesterday, whether my jars will colonize, and how many will be successful, versus either mold or just failure to thrive.

Quote:

woofwoof said:
This is why agar is important. Spores are not suppose to be 100% contam free. With agar you clean it up, this is why we use agar and not just inoculate straight to grain, or pf tek..I don't like pf tekbecause it is a hit and miss. Don't get me wrong its nice to start out, but you seem like a smart dude.




Thanks for the compliment and information. First off, when I first started inquiring as to the possibility of growing my own magic mushrooms, literally no less than 99% of all sources, on and off this site, were pointing me toward PF Tek. That's why I chose it. I wasn't rejecting the idea of Agar willfully, and stubbornly. I was basically putting myself into the hands of the many experts here and on some other Blog/video/informational sites around the web. Anyway, the vast majority of people I spoke to, many of whom PM'd me because they didn't always want to post publicly, and many in the public threads, were pointing me toward PF Tek and many members suggested RogerRabbit's video. After a successful grow or two, Goddess willing, I would be amenable to taking the training wheels off and going a little more high Tek (lol pun intended). Maybe this is a bad analogy, but I am an avid cyclist, and I remember when I was just turned 5 years old, my Dad bought me and my little sister these twin bicycles. Mine was a green boy's bike and her's was a purple girl's bike. I rode around the block all the time with the training wheels on, and at some point maybe a month or two later, my Dad took me to a park near me in Brooklyn called Marine Park. He had a few wrenches and a pair of pliers, and he took off the training wheels, and in a short time, taught me how to ride a two-wheeler and balance myself and the bike so I could ride straight.

Unless I'm wrong, my sense is that PF Tek is a great set of training wheels. Once I get at least one successful grow out of the way, I will be much more open to switching to Agar, as you and some others have suggested.

Here's a thought on this topic: once I made up my mind to do Pf Tek, I was kind of shutting people down who were suggesting other Teks or methods. Particularly once I started ordering supplies, getting all my gear, ingredients, and workspace ready for the big start. The two days when I started getting my jars prepped, substrate made, holes drilled, jars sterilized, and then finally inoculation day, I couldn't even think about any other way because I was myopically focused on the task at hand. But now, even though I look at my inoculated jars on my kitchen table with the 6500K light on them 12 hours, desperate to see signs of colonizing absurdly early, I have a window for what I will imagine should be the next 4 to 6 weeks?

I mean, its not like I can do anything now, other than keep an eye on the temperature in my apartment, and make sure its always at a comfortable room temp. Right now, and since inoculation, my kitchen table is a constant 74-78 degrees, which according to RogerRabbit is actually better than 68-74 degrees. My point is, I have the time and the headspace now to learn about other things now, including Agar.

Do you have any suggested reading and videos? Bear in mind that when it comes to stuff like this, for some reason, I do better FIRST watching videos, seeing it done in real time like a recipe taught on some cooking show, and then reading up on it later. That's what I did with PF Tek. I watched all 4 of his videos like a dozen times each, and between viewings I read up on it on this site and his site.

Quote:

woofwoof said:
Doing pf tek is like..well, i don't mind risking jars, I just want to get some fruits so I can learn. But why do that? Just start from beginning and learn the hard way first. Hell, pf tek is difficult for a brand new grower, may as well get into the habit of doing it clean- your gunna spend time and enegry anyways, just do it right so you get into good habits quickly




Of course, if I understand you correctly, then if many or all of my Pf Tek jars fail to colonize, your words in the above paragraph will come back to haunt me, I promise. :shocked:

That said, let me ask you this. Right now, I have no desire to be an amateur mycologist or a mushroom aficionado. Some of the PM's I received were from people who were real, hardcore hobbyists. They grow all kinds of different mushrooms, some of them the non-magical variety. At least right now, my only desire is to grow myself some shrooms. I don't want to sell them, I don't even want to share them...well, that's not true, I would LOVE to share them with the people I care about, but then I have crossed that line into trafficking, which is a whole other ballgame. Anyway, all I want out of this are some safe shrooms, not purchased in a back alley, from who knows who, grown who knows where, or spiked with who knows what. Does that change anything regarding your advice to use Agar? Unless the mycology bug hits me, of course. But for someone like me, who isn't looking for a new hobby, is your Agar advice still as strong in your opinion? Just curious.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: woofwoof] * 1
    #26523437 - 03/08/20 06:45 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

woofwoof said:
Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Good info to know. While I won’t name the site sponsor, since it isn’t allowed, my understanding is that this particular company is supposed to be the best for “spores“ LOL so, right or wrong, I have faith that they sent me two syringes that were free of contaminants.




This is why agar is important. Spores are not suppose to be 100% contam free. With agar you clean it up, this is why we use agar and not just inoculate straight to grain, or pf tek..I don't like pf tekbecause it is a hit and miss. Don't get me wrong its nice to start out, but you seem like a smart dude.

Doing pf tek is like..well, i don't mind risking jars, I just want to get some fruits so I can learn. But why do that? Just start from beginning and learn the hard way first. Hell, pf tek is difficult for a brand new grower, may as well get into the habit of doing it clean- your gunna spend time and enegry anyways, just do it right so you get into good habits quickly



Should have read the entire thread. We talked about this already. Op made a decision, and he is running with it.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26523447 - 03/08/20 06:53 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Should have read the entire thread. We talked about this already. Op made a decision, and he is running with it.




I'm wondering if his admonishments to me are more oriented toward the future than to the here and now? You're absolutely right, though, and I needed to maintain tunnel-vision focus until the jars were inoculated at least.

Just to re-post a question from above:

Here’s a question I may or may not have asked before: would it be a good or bad idea if I were to mist these jars occasionally with water? Or should I just leave them alone? Even though it’s probably a superfluous gesture, I am using a 6500 Kelvin CFL I picked up off Amazon, 12 hours on during the day, and 12 hours off.


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26523454 - 03/08/20 07:04 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

While they are in the jars you want to leave them until 100% colonized. Once you move to fruiting you will want to mist them occasionally. Most of the moisture required for fruiting will come from the initial dunk before birthing.


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: Sockadin]
    #26523457 - 03/08/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
While they are in the jars you want to leave them until 100% colonized. Once you move to fruiting you will want to mist them occasionally. Most of the moisture required for fruiting will come from the initial dunk before birthing.




Okay cool, thanks, my friend! But the 6500K CFL I have shining on them, 12 hours on and 12 hours off, is all right?


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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 2
    #26523462 - 03/08/20 07:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sure


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: LSA Woodrose] * 1
    #26523550 - 03/08/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LSA Woodrose said:
Quote:

Sockadin said:
While they are in the jars you want to leave them until 100% colonized. Once you move to fruiting you will want to mist them occasionally. Most of the moisture required for fruiting will come from the initial dunk before birthing.




Okay cool, thanks, my friend! But the 6500K CFL I have shining on them, 12 hours on and 12 hours off, is all right?



Yep that's literally what every tek calls for


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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: I Need A Lot of Help to Start Cultivating Mushrooms - Total N00b Here! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26523623 - 03/08/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Yep that's literally what every tek calls for




I wasn't sure if this was required for just fruiting, or if it was also required for colonization while the inoculated substrate is in the jars. Thanks! :smile:


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