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OfflineDjchrist
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: skywhisp]
    #26640353 - 05/01/20 02:10 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Amazing thread

I was wondering if an extraction from the millet mycelium would be possible? Or would it work better from the fruit body?


Edited by Djchrist (05/01/20 12:28 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Djchrist]
    #26643447 - 05/02/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Djchrist said:
Amazing thread

I was wondering if an extraction from the millet mycelium would be possible? Or would it work better from the fruit body?




Again, you generally don't extract from mycelium.  That's like extracting the medicinal componenets from honey.  Most just eat the honey :wink:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Djchrist]
    #26645275 - 05/03/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Can someone point me to that John Holliday study? All I can find is stuff on cordyceps. I know that for example with John Stamets "mycelium" which is grown on grain, the end product is 60%+ starch.

Yeah I'd definitely prefer to do this in liquid. I'd prefer an end-product that is pure mycelium and extractable; and I'm pretty sure that you cant properly extract stuff that has grains in it. But I could be wrong.

Maybe someone can speak with more experience here, but when I think of lions mane mycelium, I think of myc that doesnt eat through all the grain before it starts trying to pin and put off fruits. And sometimes even starts fruiting before fully colonized. That doesnt happen in liquid though. Any thoughts?


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #26645277 - 05/03/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Djchrist said:
Amazing thread

I was wondering if an extraction from the millet mycelium would be possible? Or would it work better from the fruit body?




Again, you generally don't extract from mycelium.  That's like extracting the medicinal componenets from honey.  Most just eat the honey :wink:




I know that with mushrooms you really want to extract them since they're not super bioavailable. Is the same not true for mycelium?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Fungusam]
    #26645406 - 05/03/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fungusam said:
Can someone point me to that John Holliday study? All I can find is stuff on cordyceps. I know that for example with John Stamets "mycelium" which is grown on grain, the end product is 60%+ starch.

Yeah I'd definitely prefer to do this in liquid. I'd prefer an end-product that is pure mycelium and extractable; and I'm pretty sure that you cant properly extract stuff that has grains in it. But I could be wrong.

Maybe someone can speak with more experience here, but when I think of lions mane mycelium, I think of myc that doesnt eat through all the grain before it starts trying to pin and put off fruits. And sometimes even starts fruiting before fully colonized. That doesnt happen in liquid though. Any thoughts?




-I don't know that it was an official study, this was from a conversation on here with several people that have been through John's internship program at Aloha.  I tried searching for the thread but can't find it, nor can I remember who it was but there's a couple on here that have been through the program, it's a pretty cool one. 

-No, you can't really properly extract stuff that has grain in it, that's why you don't extract it, you just eat it.

-I'm not sure what you're asking in the 3rd part

Quote:

Fungusam said:
I know that with mushrooms you really want to extract them since they're not super bioavailable. Is the same not true for mycelium?




No, it really isn't.  Look at pretty much every product Stamets sells, or Aloha medicinal, or 95% of all other mushroom supplements out there.  Mycelium grown on grain, dried, powdered, encapsulated.

Ever just munched a bag of the active mushrooms?  Worked fine, didn't they?  :eek:

And those are dried, tough fruit bodies.  Mycelium is microscopic thin strands.  Your stomach acid does a fine job extracting pretty much everything you need from it.

*** I'm not trying to knock your idea of growing in liquid culture, I just want to make sure it's going to be worth all the added effort, because it is going to be a lot of extra effort.  And I just don't see what the gains are, really...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #26663340 - 05/10/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My main motivation was because I figured it would be a better quality product than one grown on grain. In starting to think that I might be wrong about that though. Another possible advantage could be that the liquid could be made more cheaply than solid substrate, but that's unrelated to my motivation.

What substrate would be best? And how would I go about drying it? I think Stamets freeze-dries his; but from what I remember that process is prohibitively expensive


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Fungusam]
    #26666319 - 05/12/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Nah I don't think you were off that it would be a better product, pure mycelium would be better if it were possible, it's just growing in liquid requires so much more effort and cost since it's so easily contaminated that way, and also more dangerous because contaminants aren't seen.  So you could easily be consuming something that wasn't lion's mane mycelium, without knowing, unless you test every batch.

I do remember the grain mentioned was either millet or milo/sorghum, so those might be a good place to start.  I used millet when I did mine, and it worked well.  A little tricky to get the moisture right for PC'ing without destroying the grain and ending up with mush, but it can be done.

For drying, I just cut up the whole substrate into slices after the prescribed amount of time, and put them in a food dehydrator, the same kind people use for cubes around here.  Once dried, a coffee grinder works fine.  The powder can be stored in mason jars and added to shakes or encapsulated if you want to take the time.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #26666353 - 05/12/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:

*** I'm not trying to knock your idea of growing in liquid culture, I just want to make sure it's going to be worth all the added effort, because it is going to be a lot of extra effort.  And I just don't see what the gains are, really...




The research shows that concentrations of beneficial compounds can be made extremely high by providing an optimal nutrient profile. For example, there's the liquid solution that produced 2.5 g/L of Erinacene C. Whereas something like rice is just rice. Unless maybe the rice could be enriched? But that seems like a lot more work than making an enriched solution. Regardless, I'm not discounting the idea of going about this whole thing using rice; so I'll be working with it too. I'll post updates as that progresses.

Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate all of the criticism and advice you've given in this endeavor! I personally don't see it as a lot of extra effort. Yes, it will take some extra effort to figure out an optimal solution; but once that's done, I think it would be easier to prepare jars of it than it would be to prepare grains. And besides, it isn't like any extra work is a chore to me! I enjoy the process.

Another potential gain is that the end product could make a nice tea, whereas a starchy one would not be so good imo.

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to make an optimal LC for the Lion's Mane, so if anyone has input on this please let me know. From the research I've seen, I'm thinking it will be a good idea to try something similar to a solution of: 5 g/l oatmeal, 1.5 g/l calcium carbonate, and 0.5 g/l Edamin® K at pH 7.5. However, I don't know how to do this, and I need help figuring it out. Some of the main questions I have now are:


Do I just add oatmeal flakes to the LC and leave them in there?


Or do I boil 5 g of oatmeal in the water, then strain it?


What can I use as a complex Nitrogen source, instead of Edamin K?


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #26666369 - 05/12/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Nah I don't think you were off that it would be a better product, pure mycelium would be better if it were possible, it's just growing in liquid requires so much more effort and cost since it's so easily contaminated that way, and also more dangerous because contaminants aren't seen.  So you could easily be consuming something that wasn't lion's mane mycelium, without knowing, unless you test every batch.

I do remember the grain mentioned was either millet or milo/sorghum, so those might be a good place to start.  I used millet when I did mine, and it worked well.  A little tricky to get the moisture right for PC'ing without destroying the grain and ending up with mush, but it can be done.

For drying, I just cut up the whole substrate into slices after the prescribed amount of time, and put them in a food dehydrator, the same kind people use for cubes around here.  Once dried, a coffee grinder works fine.  The powder can be stored in mason jars and added to shakes or encapsulated if you want to take the time.




Sorry, didn't see this before I submitted my last post!

Yes, I would definitely want to test each batch before consuming. However, can't contaminants also grow along with mycelium on grain, being virtually indetectable?

Edit: This is the method I was planning on using for cultivation of grain-based supplements. The main questions I have right now are listed above about how to proceed with the LC, but I will be attempting both of these methods either way :smile:


Edited by Fungusam (05/12/20 11:49 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Fungusam]
    #26668416 - 05/13/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry can't be much help with LC recipes, it's really not my area of expertise so hopefully someone else can.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with and how it works out though!

And yeah contaminants can grow in grain but it's MUCH easier to see them.  Bacterial blotches, yeast, all very easy to see (and smell).  Sure, you can smell a batch of LC that's gone horribly wrong due to bacteria, but can you smell one that's just slightly bad?  Maybe, maybe not...  And can you tell if little filaments in the LC are the mycelium you want or a mold?  Again, maybe, maybe not... on grain it's just much easier.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineDjchrist
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #26748553 - 06/16/20 09:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well regarding a lc batch you can always test it on agar to see where you at. Any results on the lc you did with the lion's main


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OfflineFungusam
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Djchrist]
    #26759957 - 06/20/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Djchrist said:
Well regarding a lc batch you can always test it on agar to see where you at. Any results on the lc you did with the lion's main




Thanks for checking in! I got caught up with a bunch of life stuff, and this project got put on the back burner for quite a while. However in the meantime I've acquired 3 different phenotypes of lion's mane to experiment with; including one that allegedly fruits at temps as high as 90 degrees F.

Today I am inoculating 3 quart jars of organic rye berry grain with an agar wedge from each pheno. I'm also going to do some LC.

One of the jars is going to be 600-650mL H2O, 1g LME, and 1 Tbsp karo. I may also do one that is 4% honey by volume.


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Offlinexoctopus103
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: light4x]
    #27037656 - 11/13/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hi! Is anybody still interested in cultivating H. erinaceus liquid culture for the purpose of consuming and/or extracting the mycelium?

I am highly interested in this project (I made a post of my own before I was directed here).

I've never doen any sort of fungal cultivation before, and though I understand that Lc can be difficult, I really want to be able to do this do that I can provide good extracts/supplements for my grandparents. and Oriveda's supplements are so expensive...

Some things I wonder:

1) Would gallon LCs be a good start for this?
2) What types of equipment would I need in order to start a project like this?
3) Would it be necessary to purify the end LC of all growth media to gain a pure-ish mycelium before extraction? I assume it wouldn't be necessary..
4) Do you guys know how I can test the LC for erinacine concentration & contamination? Are these tests expensive or even available to the layman?
5) Would an alcohol extraction on mycelium cultivated in this way be any different than a normal alcohol extraction?


If anybody is still working on this, I would LOVE to hear about your progress, or any insight you may have.


Thanks! <3


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OfflineKing0fthajuice
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: Forrester]
    #27040165 - 11/15/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Sorry can't be much help with LC recipes, it's really not my area of expertise so hopefully, someone else can.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with and how it works out though!

And yeah contaminants can grow in grain but it's MUCH easier to see them.  Bacterial blotches, yeast, all very easy to see (and smell).  Sure, you can smell a batch of LC that's gone horribly wrong due to bacteria, but can you smell one that's just slightly bad?  Maybe, maybe not...  And can you tell if little filaments in the LC are the mycelium you want or a mold?  Again, maybe, maybe not... on grain, it's just much easier.





You could always swab a plate. (somehow missed guys post above me)*

  90% on milo sounds like a good avenue as well.

  I believe all of this growing in LC was proposed because of Stamets talk of large-scale growth in LC. 


  Fungusm if I'm not mistaken there is an edit post button, it's small but you can re-edit a post instead of making another; thanks for all the helpful information, I need to screenshot it incase you delete your account.


--------------------
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Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right!


Edited by King0fthajuice (11/15/20 09:00 AM)


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