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light4x
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How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium?
#26491355 - 02/18/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So I've been growing Lion's Mane for awhile now and making extractions and all that good stuff. Well new studies show that the mycelium contains much higher levels of the good NGF stuff.
How would you go about growing mycelium with the goal to actually consume it? I've read some cryptic statements from Stamets talking about growing it on rice and then the mycelium turns that rice into a dense carrier of the chemicals. Then I had someone tell me to just grow out a ton in a liquid culture and then drain of the liquid and pressure cook the remaining mycelium in order to break open the cell walls.
Anyone have any other input? I know this is all new and at some point I know someone will figure it out and release a tek showing how to do it, but I don't want to wait for that to happen, I'm hoping to get it done soon.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
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iwh678
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: light4x]
#26492047 - 02/18/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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A couple women from a mushroom club I used to be involved in grew the mycelium out on rice and then consumed the rice and mycelium together. I'm not sure how they ate it or how much they ate, but I assumed they were either drying and then powdering or putting it in a smoothie or something like that.
I read a post the other day about trying to use the mycelium from an active species by filtering a LC (I think the consensus was it wasn't worthwhile by the way) and I immediately though of lions mane so its funny that your mentioning that. I think you could dry and powder it fine. I'm not sure about breaking the cell walls though. It seems like pressure cooker could risk degrading the desired chemicals. Maybe drying and thawing cycles would work well? Is breaking the cell walls even necessary though? It seems like out guts do a pretty good job of breaking cell walls down.
I think you've convinced me to give this a try.
Edited by iwh678 (02/18/20 05:49 PM)
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light4x
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: iwh678] 1
#26492310 - 02/18/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I thought the same as you did about the pressure cooking thing. I think I'm gonna go ahead and get a LM lc going. I think you're right as far as just drying it and powdering it. I don't see why that wouldn't be the way. I mean we are trying to consume LM mycelium and after drying it, that's exactly what you have. If you get to this before me please reply back. Thanks for the reply.
Edited by light4x (02/18/20 06:54 PM)
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Solipsis
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: light4x]
#26492860 - 02/19/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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For many medicinal mushrooms the mycelium gets powdered and encapsulated.
The chitin component of mycelium is not that easy to digest but its not the only component, so who says you really need to break open the cells? With spores that seems a more reasonable problem but i dont think with mycelium.
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dub rules
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: Solipsis]
#26493755 - 02/19/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am also not sure whether it is necessary to lyse the cells, but the supplements that Stamets sells under the Host Defense name are freeze dried. That process includes freezing and thawing under vacuum which I am assuming would cause the cells to lyse.
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light4x
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? [Re: dub rules]
#26494138 - 02/19/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wish we had the answer to this. Gotta be someone out there that has tried or knows about this.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: light4x]
#26494414 - 02/20/20 04:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason: Host defense is essentially a placebo. In independent research that product tested the very worst compared to every other brand of mushroom supplement.
Most people use a double extraction.
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seagu

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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
#26494443 - 02/20/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Is there a link to that study? And further info that you speak of on this ?
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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Culland
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
#26494452 - 02/20/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I talked to this guy once that would make a liquid culture of morel and after it was established and free of contams, he would put it in a paint shaker. He said the constant agitation while it grew caused the mycellium to form into balls. He would then cook with the balls, said it was like a cooked wonton and in his opinion tasted better than the morel.
I have no idea if this actually works, or practical, but a thought for the experimental.
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light4x
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
#26494617 - 02/20/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: <img src='/forums/images/moved.gif'> This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason: Host defense is essentially a placebo. In independent research that product tested the very worst compared to every other brand of mushroom supplement.
Most people use a double extraction.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about. The links to the studies are all in a huge thread on reddit. You definitely should not have moved this. Extremely poor and biased judgement on your part.
Edited by light4x (02/20/20 08:07 AM)
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The Mycologist
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: light4x]
#26494621 - 02/20/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You could grow out fruits.
or
Make a tempeh.
He moved it because this is not an advanced subject.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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filthyknees
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: The Mycologist]
#26494650 - 02/20/20 08:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ingredients list myceliated rice. To me this means grow the myc on rice, once colonized break up, dehydrate, grind and encapsulate.
I don't see it being more complicated than that.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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iwh678
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: filthyknees]
#26494756 - 02/20/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Mycologist said:
He moved it because this is not an advanced subject.
While I agree with you advanced is a very relative term. This is more advance than half the stuff going on in that section. I'm not sure why this seemed to be a higher priority to move than the "how to make a spore syringe" thread.
Quote:
light4x said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: <img src='/forums/images/moved.gif'> This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason: Host defense is essentially a placebo. In independent research that product tested the very worst compared to every other brand of mushroom supplement.
Most people use a double extraction.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about. The links to the studies are all in a huge thread on reddit. You definitely should not have moved this. Extremely poor and biased judgement on your part.
If you are familiar with the study then you should link it. For better or for worse this website as a whole has a bias against anything Stamets related, but I feel like that's a conversation for another thread.
Quote:
filthyknees said: Ingredients list myceliated rice. To me this means grow the myc on rice, once colonized break up, dehydrate, grind and encapsulate.
I don't see it being more complicated than that.
From what I've read the only complaint about the myceliated grains is you end up with 60%-70% grain mass in your final product. Mycelium from a liquid culture would be closer to 100 theoretically.
Edited by iwh678 (02/20/20 09:33 AM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: iwh678] 2
#26494933 - 02/20/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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There's plenty of threads in advanced that should be moved that get missed. This one didn't 
Quote:
Mr. Alien said:
There are no actual mushrooms in Paul's supplements, they're based on grain/rice/mycelium biomass and contain mostly starch.
Just in case you don't believe what I say about it. Take it from Paul Stamets:
Here is an excerpt from one of Stamets’ patents:
EXAMPLE 9 [00123] The medicinal mushroom mycelium is grown utilizing liquid culture techniques. Whereas growing on rice might have 30-40% conversion of rice to mycelium, liquid vat culture may have essentially complete conversion with >3x more mycelium per unit mass.
30-40% conversion of rice to mycelium. Meaning 60-70% rice.
Check this research that confirms that 100%.
High alpha-glucan = starch which is from grain. While they will tell you the mycelium consumes the majority of the grain, the actual test data tells an entirely different story.
That is the reason they do not share actual lab test reports of their products. The same with Paul Stamets's products. Lot's of talk, but zero facts.
Their products are also not extracted, meaning the bioavailability is unpredictable for 80% of people.
Summarising: you are paying top dollars for useless starch.
IF you want to buy REAL mushroom supplements for your dad, I've only found 2 companies that actually SHARES! lab results. Very low starch content and high beta-glucans. They tell you the % of Beta-glucans. This is the second company! they use only fruiting bodies and they tell you exactly how much starch content there is in their products. Although, fruiting bodies are not where the most medicinal content is but is certainly better than Paul's products with 80% starch content or more.
Here is a quote from Oriveda.
Quote:
This information can be found on the product page for each mushroom. In some online communities the general idea is circulating that fruiting body is always preferable over mycelium. This is wrong.
In brief, here's why (it's mainly just common sense !): for some mushrooms the most important active ingredients are actually in the mycelium (Lion’s Mane (erinacines), Turkey Tail (PSP/PSK), Cordyceps CS-4 (no fruiting body extracts exist!)) there is a difference between mycelium-on-grains/rice (biomass) and pure mycelium. Biomass should always be avoided as it is contaminated with undigested substrate in the form of starch. This includes all US-cultivated products. We only use pure mycelium, free from starch, if the products properties request the use of mycelium quality claims are only worth something if they are backed with actual test reports. This includes a claim like 'fruiting body extracts are better than mycelium-based extracts' or vice versa. Nice statement, but where is the proof ? Also see our 'I'm confused by all the information online' entry, above. Using ‘we use fruiting bodies only!!’ has the subtext ‘it’s better!’ but actually only reveals the ignorance of the vendor, and the actual specifications, if any (% of glucans, terpenes etc.) usually have no verifiable source or backup in the form of official documents. Only specifying active ingredients is acceptable as proof of superior quality.
Going back to fruiting bodies vs pure Mycelium for medicinal content.
Research has found that pure mycelium has most of the medicinal content! Companies like Oriveda uses a method called deep layer cultivate mycelia which is basically what we call "liquid culture" but they grow pure mycelium in MASSIVE amounts and extracts the medicinal content from there. NOT GRAINS. Companies like Paul and Aloha medicinals just want to sell you starch, is a FACT. They only care about money, not curing your mom or dad, if they would care they would share LAB TEST RESULTS.
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light4x
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
#26495133 - 02/20/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes exactly thank you for those last few posts.
I don't care about Paul Stamets or what he thinks. I'm talking about the independent studies that have nothing to do with him that show how much stronger the mycelium is than the fruiting bodies. Like I said before I already grow Lion's Mane and have made some great dual extracted tinctures. I want to grow and powder the mycelium and just wanted to see if anyone has the best method to do so and to find out if the "breaking the cell wall" thing was true or not. And this definitely should be in Advanced Mycology because clearly no one knows how to do it.
Thanks.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: light4x]
#26496683 - 02/21/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Extractions aren't even a cultivation topic first of all. Secondly, this forum gets WAY more traffic from people that have any good answers for you. So if you're really pissed about this I can move in to your journal or the science and chemistry forum. Or leave it here where it fits best
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light4x
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
#26496744 - 02/21/20 09:56 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm not pissed at all, I just think this belongs in Advanced Mycology because that's exactly what it is. Why have the forum if nothing is "advanced" in your or some mods eyes especially when literally no one on the forum has a clue how to do it. And growing out mycelium definitely is a form of cultivation. Not sure why you are so against this topic but whatever.
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livingmagic
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26496777 - 02/21/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Pretty interesting...starting to see Stamets in a different light.
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filthyknees
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: livingmagic]
#26497086 - 02/21/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Clearly there are different levels of effectiveness associated with different proccessing. Anyone with more than extremely basic research and mushroom knowledge would understand the myceliated rice may be more like a microdose, very clearly a different product than whole mushroom and of course extracts are MUCH different and for different applications.
I find it funny that when that guy claimed he had to use myceliated grain to create a reshi supplement because he couldn't grind the fruits and that was OK because he did it the 'the right way'. Like oh that's odd, so he used the same practices and found it sufficient to market because he let it colonize more? Fascinating.
He never mentioned any companies except saying 'samples off the shelf'. I'm sure there's a bunch of 'supplements' that are sub par. Is stamets probably top of the pile? Yep.
On the back of stamets myceliated rice mushroom supplements list the mg doses of each species as mycelium -- then "other ingredients: dried myceliated brown rice".
Clear as day. If someone who's dying of cancer buys a $50 supplement bottle and thinks it's gonna do everything extracts do it's not the fault of a company if they choose to be ignorant and not research.
If someone wants a basic supplement I am sure myceliated rice is fine if it's not from an unknown company. If someone wants SERIOUS DOSES then extraction is clearly for that person. I don't see it as very complex - it depends on what someone wants.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
Edited by filthyknees (02/21/20 02:35 PM)
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iwh678
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Re: How to grow and consume Lions Mane mycelium? (moved) [Re: filthyknees]
#26497165 - 02/21/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
filthyknees said: Clearly there are different levels of effectiveness associated with different proccessing. Anyone with more than extremely basic research and mushroom knowledge would understand the myceliated rice may be more like a microdose, very clearly a different product than whole mushroom and of course extracts are MUCH different and for different applications.
Its not a microdose just because its mostly grain. That's like saying you can't get drunk off light beer because its only 4% alcohol. You will just have to consume more of the myceliated rice to account for the for the fact its only ~30%-40% mycelium. The reason people are interested in this in the first place is because some species have HIGHER concentrations of the desired chemicals in the mycelium than the fruit bodies. Lions mane is one of these.
Tomorrow I'm going to start a 1 gallon liquid culture to get idea of what kind of yields you can from this method. I'll keep this thread updated on the progress.
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