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CosmicGiggle
Aspiring


Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 265
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Cannabis Rebound effect?
#26490454 - 02/17/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So I've eaten an edible every night at 8pm to get to sleep at 9:30-10pm for the last couple years. It works great, I get a full 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night and though I do wake up a bit foggy, after a cup of coffee the fog starts to clear, the sun rises, and I feel awake. Awake enough to take on the day, anyways.
Last night when my alarm went off at 8pm to take my edible and clonidine (I also take .2mg clonidine every night for sleep purposes only. I got prescribed it years ago the first time I got off of buprenorphine and found that it helped me get to sleep at night, even after I was completely off of bupe I still had my doctor keep me prescribed to clonidine as a sleep aid) and I took my clonidine, but my alarm went off while I was eating dinner so I figured I'd finish dinner, then eat my cookie, but I was also watching a riveting tv show and the cookie slipped my mind.
I realized when I laid down in bed that I wasn't high and had forgotten my cookie, but by that time i'd already brushed my teeth and was tired enough to get to sleep so I said fuck it. The obvious happened, I had weird dreams ALL night (I rarely ever have dreams under the influence of cannabis, and when I do I don't remember them) and was only able to sleep for about 6.5 hours but when I woke up I was completely alert and full of energy. This has lasted all day long and I still have more energy now (6pm) than I do at any point in the day if I'd eaten an edible the night before.
Because I've been using edibles every night for so long, I can't remember if this is just my normal energy level. Could this be a rebound effect? Like if I stopped eating edibles every night for a month, would my energy levels be the same 30 days from now as it is today? I know for sure that even if I stopped eating edibles for a month and got my body adjusted to not having it every night, I would still get less than 7 hours of sleep no matter what I do, which if you listened to the Matthew Walker episode of JRE you know this is extremely bad for your health in the long run.
So, I'm not considering stopping my nightly edibles at all, because I love getting my good, hard, dream-free sleep. BUT, it is a little concerning that I'm going through life with a lower energy level than normal (if this isn't a rebound effect). Obviously, edible pot makes most people tired/sleepy/etc. but what I find unfortunate/concerning is that this lasts the entire day. Smoking pot at night doesn't last long enough to keep me asleep a full 8 hours. But eating it seems to last at least 24 hours, with the heaviest effects only lasting about 8-10 hours (during which I'm asleep), and then apparently I'm just mildly sedated for the rest of the day until I eventually eat my next cookie at 8pm and start the process over again.
I've gotten my edible dose dialed in so it's just enough that it will keep me asleep for a full 8 hours (about 50mg, I make my own and I'm not getting my shit from a dispensary so I don't know exact THC content but I just assume its about 20% THC to be conservative) and any less than that and my sleep will start to diminish. I want to keep getting a good nights sleep, but I would also like to feel the same energy level I felt today after not eating an edible last night.
Anyone else find a workaround to this? I do not like stimulants, so that is not an option. I drink about 4-6oz of coffee before the sun rises just to clear that morning edible fog and to help trigger my morning shit. Or is this energy I'm feeling today just a rebound effect that would subside if I were to quit using cannabis for an extended period?
Speculators, don't waste your time please, I'm looking for answers from someone with personal experience. Thank you
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs



Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,333
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Re: Cannabis Rebound effect? (moved) [Re: CosmicGiggle]
#26490819 - 02/17/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Other Drugs Discussion.
Reason: Better fit here.
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The_Brown_Wizard
what?



Registered: 12/27/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Southeastern Carpathians
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Quote:
CosmicGiggle said: So, I'm not considering stopping my nightly edibles at all, because I love getting my good, hard, dream-free sleep.
Here's the thing
when you're sedated you are not getting a good, hard, dream-free sleep, even tho it feels like it. Dreams are the byproduct of certain processes that go on when you sleep that have great psychological importance. These things are so important to the brain that it will literally create some sort of "dream debt" when you can't get it. This is why you get weird and vivid dreams when quitting weed.
And those edibles last quite a lot, most likely keeping you ever so slightly stoned even when you wake up
You just went one night without edibles and said you felt great the next day so i have to suggest trying to do so again, perhaps a few nights in a row this time, just to see how you feel.
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There's a weird fuck lurking in these woods
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CosmicGiggle
Aspiring


Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 265
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Quote:
The_Brown_Wizard said:
Quote:
CosmicGiggle said: So, I'm not considering stopping my nightly edibles at all, because I love getting my good, hard, dream-free sleep.
Here's the thing
when you're sedated you are not getting a good, hard, dream-free sleep, even tho it feels like it. Dreams are the byproduct of certain processes that go on when you sleep that have great psychological importance. These things are so important to the brain that it will literally create some sort of "dream debt" when you can't get it. This is why you get weird and vivid dreams when quitting weed.
And those edibles last quite a lot, most likely keeping you ever so slightly stoned even when you wake up
You just went one night without edibles and said you felt great the next day so i have to suggest trying to do so again, perhaps a few nights in a row this time, just to see how you feel.
Therein lies the big question. Is it better to get 6 hours of drug-free sleep, or 8 hours of cannabis induced sleep? The studies haven’t really been done yet to determine if cannabis induced sleep is detrimental to your health. Obviously one of the biggest concerns is the suppression of dreams. But I do still dream on cannabis, albeit a lot less than without, but my dreams on cannabis are even more slippery than when I’m sober and I never remember them, but I still remember glimpses and know I had them
I did try again last night and I’m not sure if it was from being so alert all day but I wasn’t able to quiet my mind until about 1am when my usual sleep time is 9:30-10pm. Feel like complete ass today and will definitely be back on my regular schedule tonight. Can’t fuck around like that on weekdays when I have work. I’ll try it again next time I have a 3 day weekend. Often when I’ve caught a cold or something it’s after a night of only getting 4-5 hours of sleep.
I’ve been really good about keeping a steady sleep schedule, sacrificing a lot of my social life because even on weekends I like to be home by 8:30 so I can be in bed by 9:30, otherwise it’ll fuck up my sleep pattern and it takes about 4-7 days to get it corrected again after one night/day of going to sleep late then waking up late. My family calls me grandpa
I spent much of my life (from 2003-2017) going to bed super late (2-4am) and waking up late (or early on school days and just running on 4 hours of sleep) so getting a full 8 hours and waking up before sunrise is a fairly new thing for me and I really dig it, makes me feel like I’m making up a little for being such a waste of space during my teens/early 20s.
Until such time that some study(s) come out presenting strong evidence that sleeping under the influence of oral cannabis is detrimental to your health, or the less likely scenario: my body decides to stay at rest for 7+ hours without a sleep aid, I don’t really see myself stopping cannabis use as a sleep aid. I already stopped using it recreationally. And I gave up all other drugs. Can’t I have this one thing?
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The Mycologist
Explorer

Registered: 05/06/16
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Weed isnt good for the sleep cycle.
I avoid it before bed if I can
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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The_Brown_Wizard
what?



Registered: 12/27/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Southeastern Carpathians
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I really feel you man, when i was 15 i started doing all the drugs i could find (there were lots) and my sleep went to full shit mode. I would go to sleep at 3-6 am almost every day, usually waking up around noon. I stopped when I was 19 , from that point I only smoked weed almost everyday mostly because it helped me sleep.It's been 2 years since then and now I don't really think I have any insomnia problems at all. But fuck man, during those 2 years I didn't have to give a fuck about anything and I had all the time to test different things and see how I react, It would've been 1000 times harder if I had to go to work every day
Have you tried using other sleeping aids?
When I stopped using weed I always found it difficult to fall asleep for the first 2-3 days.
Perhaps replacing the edibles with something else might be a better idea than just quitting cold turkey. I used melatonin a few times and it's the only one I'd ever use because it's pretty effective and doesn't really have any side effects that i know of (melatonin is what our bodies use to regulate sleep-wake cycles).
You could also try pairing the sleeping aid with some herbal infusions, recently I've been drinking a big cup of chamomile and peppermint tea every evening and i think it really helps with my sleep, especially the chamomile. You could also try valerian tea, from what I know it has a stronger effect.
Also, practicing good sleep hygiene is EXTREMELY important (no eating at least 1 hour before bed, turning brightness down to minimum if you have stuff to do on your pc/phone, and basically just chilling the fuck down when night time gets close). Everybody hears this all the time but too many people don't take these things seriously.
Edit: I also recommend trying to take a cold 10 min bath every day(or when you can). You don't even need to submerge your whole body, just the legs will be easier and it's what I have been doing. This always helped me fall asleep a great deal
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There's a weird fuck lurking in these woods
Edited by The_Brown_Wizard (02/18/20 11:05 AM)
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Blabble40
Scorpio

Registered: 11/11/14
Posts: 1,182
Last seen: 1 year, 28 days
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: Weed isnt good for the sleep cycle.
I avoid it before bed if I can
Right. I also generally try to avoid smoking it if there are others around, as they're inevitably nosy. Worse case scenario I try to be sneaky about it with them around but it smells, and even if there are people in other rooms they can still hear what I'm doing. I sometimes think they do nothing but spy on me all day, so I'm really not comfortable doing anything at all, if that makes sense. I'm not a hypocrite, I can admit that much. I'm also not afraid to admit what drugs I have or haven't taken, unlike most people who think that girl they have a crush on will fuck someone else if they say they hadn't done something or "don't need" some drug. Take cocaine. I used to think my true love would accept me no matter what. I admit I haven't done cocaine. Then, they look for someone who has. But isn't cocaine bad? As a habit, you're passing that along. Someone finds it attractive because it means they can talk about what it's like, and a girl would be embarrassed for her reputation if the guy she was dating said he didn't know what it was like in comparison to the other guy.
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The Mycologist
Explorer

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Re: Cannabis Rebound effect? [Re: Blabble40]
#26491801 - 02/18/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bro what are you on about?
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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CosmicGiggle
Aspiring


Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 265
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Your words of wisdom are as helpful as ever, Sir Space Cadet Blabble.
Things like melatonin and tea never worked for me. What generally prevents me from falling asleep are my thoughts. I like to fall asleep with the tv on with something playing that I’ve seen 1000 times so I don’t get too engaged with it. I just like something to mildly focus on, in order to quiet the chatter in my head. Once I’ve fallen asleep on the couch in the living room I’ll wake up and go to sleep in my bed, but if I just try to go straight to sleep in bed Without winding down on the couch for an hour, it feels pretty hopeless. Especially if I’ve had an eventful day.
I’m not actually watching the tv, mind you. I just have the volume up the minimum amount needed to hear it, and the backlight on the tv is turned to 0 and the brightness is turned down to 30% so that the room is nearly pitch black.
I grew up sleeping with a box fan on all night, again, for something to mildly focus on to help quiet the chatter in my head. My parents sleep with a fan so I was raised like that, and I’ve been living with my SO for awhile now and she’s not a fan of the fan while sleeping.
Brown Wizard, do you mean that at any point during the day by submerging your legs in cold water this will cause better sleep come night time? I’ve never heard of this. Do you know the mechanism by which this cold water submersion acts upon to help encourage sleep? I’ve heard anecdotal reports about taking hot baths before bed to help get to sleep, but I personally don’t like to bathe at night.
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Blipstir
Human



Registered: 05/05/14
Posts: 437
Loc: CO Mountains
Last seen: 2 hours, 20 minutes
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Quote:
The_Brown_Wizard said:
Quote:
CosmicGiggle said: So, I'm not considering stopping my nightly edibles at all, because I love getting my good, hard, dream-free sleep.
Here's the thing
when you're sedated you are not getting a good, hard, dream-free sleep, even tho it feels like it. Dreams are the byproduct of certain processes that go on when you sleep that have great psychological importance. These things are so important to the brain that it will literally create some sort of "dream debt" when you can't get it. This is why you get weird and vivid dreams when quitting weed.
And those edibles last quite a lot, most likely keeping you ever so slightly stoned even when you wake up
You just went one night without edibles and said you felt great the next day so i have to suggest trying to do so again, perhaps a few nights in a row this time, just to see how you feel.
lol, The_Brown_Wizard, your sig is fucking killing me haha.
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The_Brown_Wizard
what?



Registered: 12/27/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Southeastern Carpathians
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Re: Cannabis Rebound effect? [Re: Blipstir]
#26493460 - 02/19/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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melatonin is usually used to cure jet lag or when you want to start going to sleep at a different time than what you're used to, i'm pretty sure it won't be effective for certain types of sleep disorders
i think that the benefits of drinking tea are pretty subtle even if you drink lots of it everyday. i do it because some teas taste really good and sipping from a hot beverage makes me feel cozy
cold baths/showers are a pretty common thing, they've been made quite popular especially because of a man named "wim hof". if you never heard of him i totally recommend checking out this dude. i don't know the exact way it works but i believe that if you dig a bit on the internet you will certainly find studies that prove various benefits of cold baths. I don't take them during winter but in the summer time they are extremely pleasant and when taking them i always felt like i was getting better sleep. Also, you don't need to take them before going to sleep, taking them during the morning/noon should be just as good.
i don't think hot showers help with sleep but who knows maybe they do i don't take them because having high body heat always gave me trouble falling asleep excessive heat is known to disrupt sleep and cause nightmares. i have personally experienced waking up sweaty in the middle of the night after having a nightmare a lot of times when sleeping in a hot environment.
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There's a weird fuck lurking in these woods
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Individual sensitivities are a thing, but melatonin can be quite effective in promoting sleep and drowsiness. Absolutely effective for some people in restoring or achieving a sleep schedule independent of travel or other abnormality. Again, effectiveness will vary significantly for each individual.
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CosmicGiggle
Aspiring


Registered: 11/19/19
Posts: 265
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Quote:
The_Brown_Wizard said: melatonin is usually used to cure jet lag or when you want to start going to sleep at a different time than what you're used to, i'm pretty sure it won't be effective for certain types of sleep disorders
i think that the benefits of drinking tea are pretty subtle even if you drink lots of it everyday. i do it because some teas taste really good and sipping from a hot beverage makes me feel cozy
cold baths/showers are a pretty common thing, they've been made quite popular especially because of a man named "wim hof". if you never heard of him i totally recommend checking out this dude. i don't know the exact way it works but i believe that if you dig a bit on the internet you will certainly find studies that prove various benefits of cold baths. I don't take them during winter but in the summer time they are extremely pleasant and when taking them i always felt like i was getting better sleep. Also, you don't need to take them before going to sleep, taking them during the morning/noon should be just as good.
i don't think hot showers help with sleep but who knows maybe they do i don't take them because having high body heat always gave me trouble falling asleep excessive heat is known to disrupt sleep and cause nightmares. i have personally experienced waking up sweaty in the middle of the night after having a nightmare a lot of times when sleeping in a hot environment.
I wish it was as easy as a glass of tea and popping a melatonin. I tried everything from the natural shit like that to the hard shit like ambien and benzos, and obviously the middle of the road shit like Benadryl and unisom. Of those, the one that worked best was doxylamine succinate (unisom) which is an antihistamine like Benadryl but has even more of a drowsy effect, but it didn’t take long at all before I was popping 7, 8, 9, etc. for one nights sleep. Also waaaaay back in the day the first pill I ever took recreationally was Seroquel which is an anti-psychotic that also has some use as a sleep aid. When I was a real youngster kids would get ahold of that and eat a bunch and try to stay awake cause things would get mildly trippy. Idk if it would work now but I do remember it putting me to sleep when I was a little guy.
I have heard of Wim Hof and his infamous breathing method, but had never heard about Bathing in cold water to promote sleep. In fact, I’ve heard the opposite, and that cold showers are good for waking up in the morning. That makes more sense to me, as I can’t fucking stand cold showers (After a decade of shooting heroin I can’t do cold water, cold weather, etc) and when the shower goes cold it definitely makes my eyes get wider and increases my alertness because my mind is going “AAAAHHHHHHFFFUUUUUCCCKK!!!!”
But, to your point, it is definitely easier to go to sleep when the room is cold as opposed to hot. Getting sweaty under the covers is awful. As much as the cold hurts my body, it’s still better than being too hot imo. Being too hot makes me cranky and irritable as fuck. Add in some bugs flying around my face and ears on a hot summer day and I’m ready to go on a killing spree.
In the winter time in order to keep the heat from turning on and off all night in my apartment, I put an electric blanket in between my bed sheet and comforter and turn it on high about an hour before I get in bed so it gets the mattress and comforter nice and toasty and then I turn the apartment thermostat way down, and when I finally get in bed an hour later I undress and then turn off the electric blanket so it doesn’t stay warm all night, but when I crawl into my sheets it doesn’t take me 10 minutes to stop shivering, which would be the case if I had to crawl in there without the use of the electric blanket.
For now I’m gonna continue to use the edibles. I think I just got lucky on Sunday night when I was able to fall asleep without it. Idk what was goin on Monday night but I couldn’t fall asleep to save my life without my edible and that was after only getting 6 hours the previous night.
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The_Brown_Wizard
what?



Registered: 12/27/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Southeastern Carpathians
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Antihistamines are drugs which treat allergic rhinitis and other allergies, not sleeping problems
Quote:
CosmicGiggle said: I have heard of Wim Hof and his infamous breathing method, but had never heard about Bathing in cold water to promote sleep. In fact, I’ve heard the opposite, and that cold showers are good for waking up in the morning. That makes more sense to me, as I can’t fucking stand cold showers (After a decade of shooting heroin I can’t do cold water, cold weather, etc) and when the shower goes cold it definitely makes my eyes get wider and increases my alertness because my mind is going “AAAAHHHHHHFFFUUUUUCCCKK!!!!”
they really are quite effective at waking one up due to the shot of adrenaline one is receiving when subjected to the cold, but i too have never had the mind strength required to take one in the morning properly. for me the better sleep i get is just a side bonus as the main purpose of these to me is to reduce inflammation, improve the cardio system and to wake up my "primate brain" as I like to call it by regulating my adrenaline system. Basically if your mind goes “AAAAHHHHHHFFFUUUUUCCCKK!!!!” regularly enough you eventually get used to it and develop some sort of self control.
You didn't mention doing heroin for a decade, i believe it has a lot to do with your current insomnia problems. If edibles are the only thing that work for you I say just stick to them. After all, if you switch to a hardcore sleeping aid that might come with a whole list of side effects and you might just end up worse than before.
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There's a weird fuck lurking in these woods
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dk-1

Registered: 06/04/18
Posts: 94
Last seen: 29 days, 6 hours
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Weed is terrible for sleep. It inhibits the REM phase (when you dream) which is when the most cellular growth/repair happens. Have you tried, melatonin and magnesium supplementation, avoiding blue light for 1-2 hrs before bed (and any light in your bedroom), implementing a regular sleep routine, getting enough sun (and cholesterol), exercising daily? I have had severe insomnia in the past (not sleeping for days on end) and all of those things helped immensely. Also, not eating within a few hours of sleeping helps too. For the racing thoughts (what personally kept me awake) I found that meditation and exercise helped the most.
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