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InvisiblePsicomb
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Issue with freeze precip for STB tek
    #26488782 - 02/16/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have been doing my first mhrb extraction with natureboy's STB tek and have been following it exactly but my naphtha has been refusing to form crystals since I put it in my freezer last night. 

I have no idea what I did wrong. I even left my jars near a space heater for 24 hours when I added the naphtha to the basified mhrb. 


Here are some photos, it seemed like it was going so smoothly before freeze precip :sad: the naphtha was hardly yellow and jars that look cloudy are just because of frost on the outside.  my freezer isn't terribly cold but it forms ice cubes somewhat quickly and I've heard that if it can make ice it will be okay for a pull.

Can someone please give a brotha some advice


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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (02/16/20 05:46 PM)


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OfflineTrue43
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26488797 - 02/16/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Try to evaporate your naptha solution. If it's not saturated enough with dmt it wont freeze precip. A rule of thumb I use is to make sure the naptha is cloudy when disturbed or blown on then it precipitates no problem


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26488812 - 02/16/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What does your bark look like?


--------------------
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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Amanita86]
    #26488822 - 02/16/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



Not the best photo but this is it after I used my coffee grinder. It was in chunks for the most part to start.  It created a lot of purplish dust.


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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26488824 - 02/16/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

How long was the naphtha in with the bark/water and did you stir it around any?


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Amanita86]
    #26488830 - 02/16/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)


Here's another photo of the remaining shredded/powdered bark.  The bark is used for the extraction was strictly shredded though.  I left the powdered bark in a bag.

The napththa was in the bark for about 28 hours.  Swirled the jar and turned it end over end probably 8 times during that time.  Then went straight to freeze precip

I have a kilo of bark on the way so I really wanna make sure I know what I'm doing rather than waste even more precious bark


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (02/16/20 06:13 PM)


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Offlinesporecap
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26489262 - 02/17/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What's the MHRB, lye and water ratio that you used?
Try combining all your naphtha pulls, evaporate it down to 50% and try precipitating again. Also putting it into a warm water bath while pulling helps. And one can be a bit more vigorous with shaking the jar, if you have no dust and put it into a warm water bath for separation there should be no danger of an emulsion forming.
Otherwise your procedure looks fine to me...


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: sporecap] * 1
    #26489271 - 02/17/20 12:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Don't know if it's the white-balance of the pics, but my MHRB looks more reddish. Almost purple. Not a classic brown /tan tone at all, especially when shredded.

If there's dmt in your bark, then you should have at least some tiny crystal flakes somewhere on the jar. But I don't see anything. That's strange indeed.

-


Edited by Pandemoon (02/17/20 05:26 AM)


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26489453 - 02/17/20 05:16 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you everyone.  I ended up pouring all my naphtha back into my jars and then giving them heat baths.  The naphtha is noticeably more yellow now.  Jars are in an 82 degree room and will do another pull in 12 hours or so.  I am really hoping the issue is that my bark simply needed more time to sit and break down more.

So I think I saw a couple tiny crystals floating and in the bottom of one jar but yeah I dunno how the hell I haven't got anything yet.  It's like growing mushrooms is easy for me but this has me so stumped lol..

The kilo of root bark i have on the way is from a different source, thankfully, in case the issue is with this bark for some reason



--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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OfflineSpearCaps
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: True43] * 1
    #26490516 - 02/17/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

True43 said:
Try to evaporate your naptha solution. If it's not saturated enough with dmt it wont freeze precip. A rule of thumb I use is to make sure the naptha is cloudy when disturbed or blown on then it precipitates no problem





Why would the DMT Freebase not precip out of the solution, if it is not saturated enough? It seems like it is not soluable in naptha under certain temperatures anyways and the saturation of the solvent should not change that, right?


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Outside of right and wrong is a place. There we'll meet.
- Sufi Wisdom


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps] * 2
    #26490531 - 02/17/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The solution needs to be super saturated. 

It’s the same principle among crystallization techniques of other substances.  It is too diluted to form when there is too much solvent. 


Your naptha doesn’t look like it contains many alkaloids if any at all.  Too clear.

And I would personally freeze precip in a Pyrex instead of mason jars.


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26490565 - 02/17/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the tips everyone.  Big worm, is it safe to keep my frozen foods in the freezer while the pyrex is in there? I just have nowhere else to put them.

So I made took another pull and put it into 4 jars, probably 40ml in each.  The surface seems to look slightly crystally and reflective after 6 hours in the freezer. 



You think the pyrex baking dish is still probably the way to go huh? I'm game for trying it, I just want some fuckin spice bad :sad:


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (02/17/20 05:50 PM)


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26490571 - 02/17/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

When I would keep my Pyrex In the freezer with naptha ,  the ice cubes that were also in the freezer would smell and taste like naptha.    But it was also in an open bag.

It’s not ideal.  But Ive had many Pyrex’s in freezers with food and it never seemed to be an issue for me personally. But other people may have a different opinion.


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26490582 - 02/17/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Word, well I'm not one to worry too much about that kind of stuff.  My biggest loss will be half a pint of ice cream lol, I'll just throw the meats in the fridge.

I'm gonna let it freeze precip in these jars overnight, check in the morning, and if I still have nothing I'll put it in a pyrex and try again

Thanks for the tips


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (02/17/20 05:57 PM)


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26490587 - 02/17/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No prob.


How you can tell when the solvent is super saturated.  I turn off the fan that I have blowing on the Pyrex to speed up the evaporation.  And blow my breath onto the solvent, how you would if you were gonna make a “hot breath “ is the best way to explain it lol.  Kinda like how you would if you had hot food in your mouth to cool it down.  And you will see that it starts to become cloudy.  That is a sign of super saturation.


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OfflineSpearCaps
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm] * 1
    #26490676 - 02/17/20 07:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Word, well I'm not one to worry too much about that kind of stuff.  My biggest loss will be half a pint of ice cream lol, I'll just throw the meats in the fridge.

I'm gonna let it freeze precip in these jars overnight, check in the morning, and if I still have nothing I'll put it in a pyrex and try again

Thanks for the tips




I advise you to keep the precip dish closed. This is to reduce the risk of water and subsequently contaminants getting in the solution (and as the water freezes) also in the final product after you pour of the naptha.

Also letting it freeze longer (48h and up) might increase the rate.





Quote:

Big Worm said:
The solution needs to be super saturated. 

It’s the same principle among crystallization techniques of other substances.  It is too diluted to form when there is too much solvent.
 






Someone i know that is making DMT usually goes a little over with the np-solvent (10% additional per pull and 4 pulls) and still manages to get good freeze precips.

Now that you say it though, when i went to his place last week and saw the naptha pulls, they did look very clear. Will ask him how it will turn out.


But then again: If you ever put pure white DMT chrystals in a solvent at good saturation, like 30-40ml/g you would see that it doesnt really change its colour. The orange/yellowish tainting of the naptha you describe might be the result of impurities like plant oils and other alkaloids. This could be from using ACRB or very young MHRB or MHB and doing STB instead of A/B.

I do believe the A/B Teks i saw often had quite clear non-polar solvent in the end. This is as A/B gets out the plant oils etc. quite early.

So OP might just be dealing with some very good MHRB.


OP might just be dealing with some bark that is low in fats.



Edit: Gonna double check on the changing colour while resolving part. It is definetely true for polar solvents like iso, but it might be different for the non polar ones.


Edited by SpearCaps (02/17/20 07:20 PM)


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps]
    #26490697 - 02/17/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ah that makes sense on trying to keep the pyrex covered, thanks for the heads up.  I'll give it another day and a half

This is all so new to me.. I do believe my mhrb is indeed legit though.  The only thing I didn't measure exactly is the napththa when I put it in but I poured it to the bottom of the wide mouth as suggested by some folks in the thread.  When I drew up what appeared to be exactly half with the turkey baster for freeze precip it was indeed 75ml.

Still got 50g bark to use until my order gets here next week so if all else fails I'm gonna give it another go and post it here.


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (02/17/20 07:32 PM)


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OfflineSpearCaps
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26491275 - 02/18/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:

This is all so new to me.. I do believe my mhrb is indeed legit though.  The only thing I didn't measure exactly is the napththa when I put it in but I poured it to the bottom of the wide mouth as suggested by some folks in the thread.  When I drew up what appeared to be exactly half with the turkey baster for freeze precip it was indeed 75ml.






Appreciate it. DMT extraction looks like a fun process which requires a very different procedure from growing mushrooms.
Its good to keep track of naptha. The consensus on most STB Teks is to use 1ml naptha per 1g MHRB. Edit to clarify: this is the amount per pull, not the total amount of naptha So going massively overboard (like 2x+) could induce the free precip problem that was mentioned earlier.
How much MHRB did you use, when you had about 150ml naptha?

Quote:

Psicomvb said:

Still got 50g bark to use until my order gets here next week so if all else fails I'm gonna give it another go and post it here.





This is a very good amount of starting material to play around with. It's enough to get you some smokeable final product but not so much that it is a big loss if something goes wrong.
I heared of someone who lost like 10g DMT in failed salting attempt.


If you are having fun with the extraction and consider, doing it in the future: a friend of mine would advise you to get straight into A/B extractions. They are just marginally more complicated, but make the process quicker, yield a purer product and eliminate the problem of emulsion.

If you want to do STB still, you might want to look into Nomans Tek or its adaptation "The Super Secret Hidden DMT Extraction Guide".


And always make sure to wear safety goggles when dealing with NaOH. Skin burnings are no big deal but you don't want it to get into your eye :wink:


--------------------
Outside of right and wrong is a place. There we'll meet.
- Sufi Wisdom


Edited by SpearCaps (02/18/20 08:05 AM)


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps]
    #26491303 - 02/18/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I used 100g of shredded bark and 100g of lye in my recipe with 600ml distilled water.  Thanks for all that info on the napththa, I will definitely be more exact next time. 

I will look into A/B for sure.  STB was very appealing because I'm a super noob with this and I live in a really small space with a gas stove.

Giving it 24 more hours to freeze right now.  Not even gonna look at them.  I have a good feeling about this.  I will post pics tomorrow morning

Thanks again everyone, couldn't do it without yall


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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Offlinesporecap
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26491645 - 02/18/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
I used 100g of shredded bark and 100g of lye in my recipe with 600ml distilled water.  Thanks for all that info on the napththa, I will definitely be more exact next time. 

I will look into A/B for sure.  STB was very appealing because I'm a super noob with this and I live in a really small space with a gas stove.

Giving it 24 more hours to freeze right now.  Not even gonna look at them.  I have a good feeling about this.  I will post pics tomorrow morning

Thanks again everyone, couldn't do it without yall




I had great results with a 1:1:10 ratio, i.e. 50g MHRB, 50g lye, 500ml water. This is nice since it gives a pH in the area of where DMT is just about 99% freebased. Your solution is much more basic, it's quite strange that your Naphtha does not have a yellow color, as I would have expected it to pull even more other stuff.
The amount of Naphtha is not really relevant. Just use something between 50-200ml which you can easily siphon off from the mix. If you use more, more DMT will be extracted in one step (but it's less efficient than many pulls with less solvent). But since you can reuse your Naphtha this doesn't matter.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26491982 - 02/18/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Natureboy tek, 1st pull. 100g of mhrb, and I followed the tek exactly. I let my stuff go a few days though before doing a 1st pull. I've gotten 7 pulls from 100g of bark and 2.2g from it too.



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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 2
    #26492019 - 02/18/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Spear Caps

Ya my spice always comes out orange at first.  Ive come to learn I process it differently then most people and I run about a half ki per run.      If I want white/clear crystals, I'll clean up with heptane after.   

My homie does an AB on ACRB and his comes out white off the jump.  I do STB with MHRB and use heat, and can process a half ki every 8 hours.  I was taught this way and have just stuck with it.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm] * 1
    #26492894 - 02/19/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)


Guys, I got dmt :aweyeah: thanks a lot for the help so far. 

Letting the jars dry now upside down, using a cooling rack to allow airflow underneath the jars.  I dumped the naphtha back into the main jars with the basified bark and am gonna give them a couple heat baths and some gentle swirls and then pull again in 24 hours


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26492921 - 02/19/20 07:17 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:manofapproval:

Have fun, dude!

-


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26493041 - 02/19/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Look how white that is! :thumbup::heart::thumbup: I pull using a half pint jar with a lid so my freezer/food don't absorb ANY vapors.


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26493049 - 02/19/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the advice TRex.  I have been using wide mouth pints, do you think it matters much? I have half pints too, I just figured pints would be easier for scraping up.

Stunning jar by the way :eek: I really hope to pull something like that eventually.


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26493055 - 02/19/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I use the amounts listed in NB tek, and only pull 50-75ml to freeze precip. I take my time though. I'll let the soak happen for days. I always have slight yellow to dark yellow pulls because I wait, but I have read many people state they prefer the "full spectrum yellowish/yellow-white to pure white". It could take me month or so for just one 100g batch of mhrb.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26494222 - 02/19/20 11:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I haven't really tried to get naphtha here, because they stopped selling it in stores, and not only that, they added components making it unusable for extraction, so it isn't a "pure" non-polar mixture. I had to use heptane. With the first one I used about 2 cups of bark. I measured out a similar amount of water and attempted to saturate it with sodium hydroxide, putting about 1 cup or 8 ounces in it, then let it sit for at least an hour, but sometimes a day. Then I'd add the non-polar solvent and stir. It's said to act instantly, and heat is supposed to allow more yield in the pull. Then you just have to siphon the solvent layer off, and throw it in a pyrex dish, and let it dissolve. If you air dry it with a fan, DMT should be left over. But, sometimes it isn't. The other option is to, instead, freeze precipitate, which just means throw it in a freezer.
The non-polar solvent evaporates at room temperature in under ten seconds, so putting it in the freezer allows it to build up, affecting crystal formation. If you air dry it, it leaves a thin film that you scrape with a blade, which turns into power or the crystals. From my experience freeze precipitating it leaves blotches of crystal formations.
Sometimes nothing would happen, and leaving the heptane solution in the freezer wouldn't evaporate it, so I'd let it get cloudy then just air dry the rest. It was pretty hit and miss. However, I did get results and the DMT did work. It was DMT, extracted from Mimosa hostilis root bark. However, I only did it that one time so don't have extra repeatable results to back it up.
After evaporating if there's still heptane left over, it can be put back in the main pot the bark and heptane were in for additional pulls. Then again, that was with heptane, and naphtha is probably more effective.


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Edited by Blabble40 (02/20/20 03:14 AM)


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Blabble40] * 1
    #26494655 - 02/20/20 08:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ahhh, that's why. You know, pure naptha is sold in art supply stores as well as a paint thinner/remover.

https://www.macconsumercatalog.com/cob_3336030000responsive/product/9380/Naphtha.html


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #26495750 - 02/20/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, now it's starting to take off.  The naphtha is noticeably more yellow and full of goodies. 


Harvested 0.7g from this pull. 

The yield from the first pull was minimal, no more than 0.1g.  I'm hoping to get at least one more good pull out of this, fingers crossed for even more than that.


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb]
    #26495842 - 02/20/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

YES!!


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26496238 - 02/20/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nice yields Trex! Damn!

Big Worm, i heard u can clean the crystals by dissolving them in warm Naptha, decanting the top while the fats/oils sink to the bottom. Does this work?


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26496265 - 02/20/20 11:22 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Didn't see anyone mention this but for best freeze precip, set your freezer to its coldest setting. I think I've read someone say you want your freezer cold enough to freeze icecream rock hard. A deep freezer is the best for this because you don't loose all your cold air when you open a chest style freezer. They also generally get colder on their coldest setting than the freezer attached to a fridge and stay colder.

Once you put your pan (covered in saran wrap so no moisture gets in) in the freezer, do not disturb the freezer until you're ready to pour off the solvent. Don't even open the freezer if you can avoid it during this time as the subtle shock can dislodge your goodies and make the pouroff more difficult.

Don't disturb the pan trying to peek. I'd leave them for a full 24 hours if your freezer isn't a super cold one.

Freeze precip is great because you can reuse your solvent.

Defatting the MHRB will help your solvent stay clean through more pulls and result in cleaner precipitation. But def not nec.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: susurrador]
    #26496268 - 02/20/20 11:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So in a thread in the Chem and Pharma forum, it was discussed that you can defat simply by washing the plant bark with warm Naptha, then discarding the Naptha afterwords.

Has anyone tried this?


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26496274 - 02/20/20 11:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Nice yields Trex! Damn!

Big Worm, i heard u can clean the crystals by dissolving them in warm Naptha, decanting the top while the fats/oils sink to the bottom. Does this work?





Ya I personally use heptane instead of naptha.  But yes, mix your spice and solvent , heat , and the fats will sink to the bottom and then you pour off leaving the orange behind and then evap.  I’ve only done it a couple times a couple years ago .  Most people I know prefer the orange.    But I was thinking about cleaning up some of the spice that I have.  I got like 6oz so I might clean up a couple of them.    And grow some crystals just for fun lol

I hardly smoke it.  Maybe once a year.  I get a lot of anxiety thinking about smoking it.  I’ve just gotten so far out there and had some really intense experiences, it’s just a lot.    But with the cartridges I make , you can control your dose well.  And you can also breakthrough with one long draw.  So you can have a lot of control over how deep you want to go.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26496275 - 02/20/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Dose control is definitely key. Low dose DMT hits are really nice.

I would like to prefer the orange but the smoke is so damn harsh!

So heptane works just as good as naptha?


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm] * 2
    #26496277 - 02/20/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I usually freeze precip when I have processed about two ki’s.  And get like 25-30g per Pyrex.    There is so much in it , it hasn’t been wanting to stick to the Pyrex after being in the freezer for like 48 hours. So I just evap my naptha all the way down.    Deep freezer too.

While I’m evapping,  crystals start growing all around the Pyrex. 







I know I could process it more efficiently but I’m lazy and stuck in my ways.  And yield 1.5 - 2% so it’s whatever.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26496278 - 02/20/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Whoa thats crazy! Look at that crystalized rim! :eek:

2% yield is pretty much ideal. Nice work :thumbup:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26496280 - 02/20/20 11:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Dose control is definitely key. Low dose DMT hits are really nice.

I would like to prefer the orange but the smoke is so damn harsh!

So heptane works just as good as naptha?





I’ve never re-x’d with naptha but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people do it.    I had a good friend show me his process and I haven’t strayed too far from it or experimented with other methods really.

I don’t find it harsh tbh.  I guess it depends how you’re smoking it.  I’ve never liked sandwiching between herb.  Very underwhelming experience.  I prefer to smoke out of machines and cartridges now.  One hit breakthrough.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26496282 - 02/20/20 11:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Whoa thats crazy! Look at that crystalized rim! :eek:

2% yield is pretty much ideal. Nice work :thumbup:





Lol ya it’s like the rim of the glass of a psychedelic margarita.  :psychsplit:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26496283 - 02/20/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I use a dab bong, works really well. But the smoke is still pretty harsh.

It does look like that! Next time, try freezing in a deep, round glass dish :rainbowdrink:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26496293 - 02/21/20 12:09 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

it would say try doing a lower temp dab.  But if you’re getting good results as is, you must not be burning it.  An enail would be the play.  You could really dial it in.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26496303 - 02/21/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Ahhh, that's why. You know, pure naptha is sold in art supply stores as well as a paint thinner/remover.

https://www.macconsumercatalog.com/cob_3336030000responsive/product/9380/Naphtha.html



I dunno, I also read they stopped shipping to where I live, so I don't want to risk it.

They don't sell it here, but they used to. When I got my bark it even came with a note that said not to use the naphtha, or at least check the ingredients, because they changed it. I think it would be easier to use it but I'd have to drive to another state, get it there, then drive back.

I can't do it anymore, and it isn't just paranoia. I ordered a book the other day and when it arrived, the package was tore as if someone tried to see what it was, so I'm just not comfortable with that route. Art supply stores here only have heptane, which works, but probably needs a heat bath. It's called Bestine.

I don't want to be the guy who always ask for help and never knows how to do anything or has no real valuable skills, but that just sucks about where I live. On the other hand, it's a "medical marijuana" state, so I can't complain, but the downside is they removed all naphtha from hardware stores, and art stores only have the paint thinner/remover, which is heptane/Bestine. I haven't tried hexane, but read on the nexus naphtha is still probably better.

I can experiment with lighter fluid too, but I read those are hit and miss with the additional ingredients they add in. So for me it's either lighter fluid or heptane.


--------------------


Edited by Blabble40 (02/21/20 12:36 AM)


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Blabble40] * 1
    #26496341 - 02/21/20 01:23 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

if you want to try an A/B tek in the near future I recommend trying 'Cyb's ATB Salt Tek'. You can find it pretty easily on the dmt nexus site, i tried to copy the link but it didn't work for some reason

It's really easy and I had great results (2% but it was so white i thought cleaning it some more would have no purpose other than lose some weight)

here's 1g of the stuff


Edited by The_Brown_Wizard (02/21/20 01:54 AM)


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26496343 - 02/21/20 01:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I plan on getting an enail sometime in the future. That would be so swanky :cool:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26496460 - 02/21/20 05:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Re-x with naphtha works very well the way yu described it.

But there's some noticable loss. Most people prefer the yellow stuff, it's richer in effects, a bigger yield, and easier to smoke. More pros than cons. :shrug:

Re-x only if you want pure white crystals.

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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26496466 - 02/21/20 05:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SpearCaps said:


But then again: If you ever put pure white DMT chrystals in a solvent at good saturation, like 30-40ml/g you would see that it doesnt really change its colour. The orange/yellowish tainting of the naptha you describe might be the result of impurities like plant oils and other alkaloids. This could be from using ACRB or very young MHRB or MHB and doing STB instead of A/B.

I do believe the A/B Teks i saw often had quite clear non-polar solvent in the end. This is as A/B gets out the plant oils etc. quite early.

Edit: Gonna double check on the changing colour while resolving part. It is definetely true for polar solvents like IPA, but it might be different for naptha etc.




Okay my update.

My friend did an STB alongside an A/B extraction to see the results and coloring of the np-solvent.

The Solvent of the A/B extraction was crystal clear (as expected). The resulting crystals where really white and don't need any purification.

The solvent in the STB extraction was rather clear, but a little tainted; this is due to the higher concentration of plant oils and jungle spices that where not cleaned out before. The resulting crystals where good but slightly yellow. One re-X was done for purification, but not much oil could be drained off.

Resolving 1g pure white crystals in 45ml np-solvent did not change its color.
Resolving the 850mg yellowish crystals in 40ml np-soolvent did change its colour noticeably.

From that we can conclude, that the coloring of the pulled solvents can be an indication of DMT content when doing an STB extraction. However other factors as Source material: type(MHRB or ACRB etc.), age, pre freezing etc. aswell as amount of naptha used, play a big influence aswell.






@Psicomvb

Congrats on your first extraction! I'm sure you can even increase yields by developing your own mixing routine (i found this is the most important part regarding final amount).
And definetely look into Change :wink:


@Big Worm

Nice dude, 2 kilos is quite a benchmark and yields of 1-1,5% are decent from STB.
My friend is processing several hundred grams only at the moment and wants to scale up. Do you have any advice for a mixing container? Preferrably it is resistant to Naptha, Hepthan, Hexan and NaOH. Bonus if it is resistant against HCl or Citric acid.


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Edited by SpearCaps (02/21/20 05:47 AM)


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26496469 - 02/21/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
So in a thread in the Chem and Pharma forum, it was discussed that you can defat simply by washing the plant bark with warm Naptha, then discarding the Naptha afterwords.

Has anyone tried this?





It sounds definetely possible, but you might lose some DMT in the process; the DMT in the plant are naturally alkaloids and therefore might bind to the naptha aswell. However the amount lost could be negligable.

If you are concerned about olily impurities just go for A/B or do an Acid wash after your STB pull. No risk of losing DMT there.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps]
    #26496471 - 02/21/20 05:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Could u go into more details about the "acid wash"?


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps] * 1
    #26496472 - 02/21/20 05:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I recently got ~29g out of 2 kilos mhrb stb.

Freeze preciped ~7g of white flakes, the rest is yellow stuff from evaporation.



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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26496482 - 02/21/20 06:05 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Could u go into more details about the "acid wash"?




The principle works like this:

Quote:

(Optional) Acid/Base Purification and Defatting

If you did an acid/base extraction, this step is probably unnecessary, especially if you defatted before recovering the freebase. It can be done if you’re really worried about impurities and aren’t partial to any of the subsequent purification methods. If you went straight to base, then this step could be worth your while, as it allows you to defat your extract. On the other hand, many people find that Mimosa has little enough fat content that defatting leads to an unnecessary loss of product.

Extract your nonpolar DMT freebase solution with several volumes of water acidified to pH 3-4 with your choice of acid (hydrochloric, acetic, tartaric, etc.) and pool the extracts. If desired, defat the acidic solution with a couple volumes of nonpolar solvent (naphtha, toluene, etc.). Basify the solution to regenerate DMT freebase and recover by extracting with several volumes of extracting solvent (naphtha, DCM, hexanes, etc.), pooling the extracts.




Source: DMT Nexus Extraciton Overview.


Basically what you wan't to do is created several volumes of acidic solution, for example citric acid or acetic acid with a ph of 3-4 (Don't use HCl unless you know what you are doing!).
The amount that worked on my friends small/medium scale operation was taking the amount of source material in g as ml times 4. E.g. if you used 200g MHRB, prepare 800-1000ml of acidified DiW Solution ph 4.

Then take one quart of that solution and fill it into your naptha extractions. The acid will convert the DMT to its salt, e.g. DMT acetate and it will fall out of the naptha and bind with the DiW.
Then seperate out the Acid Water and fill it into a mixing container  (make sure it is still acidic if you have a ph measure). Do this extraction 3-4 times total.

Now you will have the combined Acid Extracts that contain the DMT salt, while plant oils and most impurities will be left behind in the Naptha.

The above quoted guide mentions here doing a naptha defatting. I don't believe this is necessary.

Now take an excess amount of NaOH and re-basify your solution. Taking it to a ph of 12 is preffered, being a little over or under is no problem. You might use 75g NaOH on 1000ml Acid solution for example (might be excess already). It will look really cool as you can see the DMT salt converting to freebase, as the SOlution will go milky for a while. Make sure to shake or stir a little. There is no risk of emulsion.

Now extract your Basic DMT containing solution with fresh naptha. You might used less naptha now as before, which will help with freeze preciprication. It will be very clear now. Make sure you shake (and prefferably heat) before decanting.

This will definetely result in some very fine white crystals. You might freeze precip ur left behind naptha (before the wash) aswell for some jungle spice, to whom it is preffered.



Personally, I don't see a big benefit of doing STB + Acid Wash over doing A/B Teks though. Might be usefull if you did STB already and find the Extract is very impure or want to use it on large scale as purification of some STB product.


Disclaimer: Neither my friend who explained this to me, nor me is a chemist. So this procedure could probably be done much more efficiently when using different ratios and values. However this "Tek" has not shown to result in any significant loss of product, while removing impurities quite well.


Edited by SpearCaps (02/21/20 06:15 AM)


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SpearCaps] * 1
    #26501899 - 02/24/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)



Just an update, I've harvested 1.5g so far.  There are at least a couple more pulls left in it for sure.  Hoping to get 3g or more out of it.

Thanks again for the help along the way everyone :peace:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26502109 - 02/24/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

natureboy comes through again! I usually get about that, sometimes 2.0!


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Big Worm]
    #26508515 - 02/28/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Please tell me in detail how you make the cartridges? Pics also of the other ingredients??? Please??

That looks fucking phenomenal. I can't imagine what sitting on multiple ounces of spice feels like.

I have a gf now who soooo wants to experience it, but I've been having some problems with extracting recently. The naptha would float to top, then there would be this gooey layer, kinda white, then the black mess with the bark and lye beneath that. Is that fats? I use mhrb. Also, sourcing the damned bark is difficult now, as my searches haven't come up with anything. Used to get it off ebay.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SizlChest] * 1
    #26508537 - 02/28/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

That’s an emulsion.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Amanita86]
    #26510885 - 03/01/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
That’s an emulsion.





Indeed.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: SizlChest]
    #26511603 - 03/01/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SizlChest said:
Please tell me in detail how you make the cartridges? Pics also of the other ingredients??? Please??

That looks fucking phenomenal. I can't imagine what sitting on multiple ounces of spice feels like.

I have a gf now who soooo wants to experience it, but I've been having some problems with extracting recently. The naptha would float to top, then there would be this gooey layer, kinda white, then the black mess with the bark and lye beneath that. Is that fats? I use mhrb. Also, sourcing the damned bark is difficult now, as my searches haven't come up with anything. Used to get it off ebay.




The bark and lye beneath the naptha is a big mixture of things, not just the fats.

According to what Ive heard recently, you can wash the fats out using Naptha BEFORE you add the Lye, which converts the DMT to its freebase. NP solvents seem to be good dissolvers of fat molecules :strokebeard:


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26529717 - 03/11/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)


Just a little more DMT porn.  This was from a different powdered batch of mhrb so I adjusted the water accordingly as suggested in Natureboys tek and it worked out great with a ~1.25% yield so far with one last pull to harvest in the morning.


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26529912 - 03/11/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Fuck yes! I think I told you natureboy was a good one. The one and only I've ever used. YAY!


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Re: Issue with freeze precip for STB tek [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26530723 - 03/12/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You definitely did push for going the Natureboy route and I'm glad you did


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Edited by Psicomb (03/13/20 05:40 PM)


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