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InvisibleRRedBBeard
SE Connecticut
Male
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 385
Loc: SE CT
Could brf's be preferable to tub grows?
    #26488539 - 02/16/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, I'm an iconoclast. Not much is guaranteed sacred, and I tend to challenge the 'conventional wisdom' where it is found. That said, I'm questioning the superiority of tubs and 'large grows' over brf's. And yes, I'm relatively new to mushroom culture, but not totally green either.
Here are my observations:
A 60 quart tub with ~3-4" deep substrate is said to have a good 1st flush if that flush is >350 grams. My first 2 GT brfs combined weighed 334 grams before being soaked, and 414 grams after a 24 hour soak,
1st flush was 174 grams, combined. 2nd flush on the original cake is just coming along, with several fat pins showing, plus smaller clumps.
So, it looks like I can produce as much as a big tub with just 4 brf's weighing <2 pounds altogether. I'm guessing the brf 2nd flushes will be relatively smaller.

Don't get me wrong--the big tubs with a full canopy are things of beauty, and I'll no doubt make a few of my own. But there's a reason that I lean toward my brf's and 'humidity chambers'.

The pictures show the 2 GT brf's, plus the 2nd flush developing just now.

Comments welcome....





The 'humidity chambers':



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OfflineMH5109
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Registered: 09/27/17
Posts: 1,385
Loc: America Flag
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Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: RRedBBeard]
    #26488554 - 02/16/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

1oz dry per qt of grain is typically the most common for clean spawn, I do 2qts grain 1:1 with coir in shoe boxes and typically get 3-400+ wet off the first flush. Imo grain is the only way to go, but the brf cakes have their place, they are small relatively fast and pretty easy. But i still go with grain.


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InvisibleRRedBBeard
SE Connecticut
Male
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 385
Loc: SE CT
Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: MH5109]
    #26488573 - 02/16/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nice!
Like I said, I'm not swearing off shoeboxes or tubs....


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OfflineSockadin
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Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: MH5109]
    #26488576 - 02/16/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MH5109 said:
1oz dry per qt of grain is typically the most common for clean spawn, I do 2qts grain 1:1 with coir in shoe boxes and typically get 3-400+ wet off the first flush. Imo grain is the only way to go, but the brf cakes have their place, they are small relatively fast and pretty easy. But i still go with grain.




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Invisiblenatedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: RRedBBeard]
    #26488590 - 02/16/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RRedBBeard said:
Ok, I'm an iconoclast. Not much is guaranteed sacred, and I tend to challenge the 'conventional wisdom' where it is found. That said, I'm questioning the superiority of tubs and 'large grows' over brf's. And yes, I'm relatively new to mushroom culture, but not totally green either.
Here are my observations:
A 60 quart tub with ~3-4" deep substrate is said to have a good 1st flush if that flush is >350 grams. My first 2 GT brfs combined weighed 334 grams before being soaked, and 414 grams after a 24 hour soak,
1st flush was 174 grams, combined. 2nd flush on the original cake is just coming along, with several fat pins showing, plus smaller clumps.
So, it looks like I can produce as much as a big tub with just 4 brf's weighing <2 pounds altogether. I'm guessing the brf 2nd flushes will be relatively smaller.

Don't get me wrong--the big tubs with a full canopy are things of beauty, and I'll no doubt make a few of my own. But there's a reason that I lean toward my brf's and 'humidity chambers'.

The pictures show the 2 GT brf's, plus the 2nd flush developing just now.

Comments welcome....





The 'humidity chambers':





350g dry 1st flush off a 60qt tub is an amazing yield. That's over a half lb dry.
Now if you meant 350g wet, then thats only an oz or so dry which is a terrible yield.

No way are you getting 350g dry from 2 brf cakes, I don't care how big they are.
Bulk subs and grain are far superior to cakes, hands down.


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InvisibleRRedBBeard
SE Connecticut
Male
Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 385
Loc: SE CT
Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26488628 - 02/16/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hi Nate--all my yield references were wet measurements, as stated. The yield for my 2 brf's, combined, was 174 grams, wet of course. If it had been 4 brf's, then the total for 1st flushes would be ~350g.

Actually, no where in my post did I mention the dry weights of dehydrated mushroom yields.

You said <<No way are you getting 350g dry from 2 brf cakes, I don't care how big they are.>> Where the heck did you read that in my post?


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26488646 - 02/16/20 04:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

a pf cake yields around 3.5 grams dry on the first flush around 7 total yield.
that said pf cake yields more than bulk subs and the numbers aren't really even close. so if you were to spawn grain to bulk and place them in of jars to colonize  you get around 2 grams on the first flush maybe 5 total. This is only a biological efficiency standpoint though, cakes win this race hands down but let's talk practicality now.
so for the pf tek you need almost the same  stuff as a mono tub, a 66 qt tub with 5 inches of perlite and 1/4 " holes drilled 2 inches apart in a grid pattern on all six sides, they work best stuffed so 12 to 15 cakes but these cakes also need at least 7 to 10 days of consolidation.
now a mono tub needs 5 qts ( same volume as 15 cakes😉) spawned to bulk sub which is cheaper then perlite. it also only needs up to a max of 6 holes if any and in the 7 to 10 days your cakes are consolidating is about the same timeframe your bulk could be colonizing only now you don't have to mist and your tub which is the same size is now wall to wall substrate , more food more water more surface area equals more mushrooms per square foot.
biological efficiency is great for edibles but in our hobby space/time is prime real estate and we should treat it as such


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
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Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
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Re: Could brf's be preferable to tub grows? [Re: RRedBBeard]
    #26488703 - 02/16/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RRedBBeard said:
Hi Nate--all my yield references were wet measurements, as stated. The yield for my 2 brf's, combined, was 174 grams, wet of course. If it had been 4 brf's, then the total for 1st flushes would be ~350g.

Actually, no where in my post did I mention the dry weights of dehydrated mushroom yields.

You said <<No way are you getting 350g dry from 2 brf cakes, I don't care how big they are.>> Where the heck did you read that in my post?



350 wet gs from a 60 qt mono is not considered a good flush at all, which is what you stated in the op.
4 times that is a decent flush. Also I know you never said dry or wet, thats why I referenced both dry and wet weights in my comment.


@cron- sure as far as actual b.e. is concerned, brf cakes win, but as far as
overall yield, work, cost, and time input bulk subs win every time.


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