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PrimeNumber
Student


Registered: 10/18/18
Posts: 184
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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7 grams to Psychosis 1
#26487284 - 02/15/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I recently had a mushroom induced trainwreck, and I feel compelled to share my experience.
Back in November, I took 7 grams Johns Hopkins style and had the easiest, gentlest, most elegant trip of my life. I wrote it up here.
7 days later I was psychotic, in the seclusion room of my local psych ward, naked, punching the walls until my knuckles bled. I had a manic episode at the same time, which lasted over a month, most of which was spent in the psych ward.
I have bipolar disorder type 1--the most severe form--and have had manic episodes that were drug induced and ones that were not. I've used psychedelics at least 30 or 40 times in my adult life, I lost count long ago, and had no problems until now.
There is a case to be made that the onset of this manic episode was a mere coincidence. The argument against that is that I proceeded to psychosis more or less immediately, which is not typical; usually psychosis in mania is the result of sleeping 3 hours a night for weeks at a time (lack of REM).
Every good book I read on psychedelics warned against people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia taking psychedelics. I thought I was safe with mushrooms because mania is more or less a dopamine thing, and shrooms don't touch dopamine receptors. I thought I was safe because I had always been safe. I thought I was safe because mushrooms are a sacrament, and how could a sacrament exclude people, especially ones that are suffering the most?
My understanding of the Johns Hopkins research is that they screen out people who have family histories of psychotic disorders. I wish I would have paid attention to that.
The thing that really kicks me in the balls the hardest is, I still believe in psychedelics. I know too much about them to mentally throw them away. They are some of the most promising drugs ever, and it hurts to watch the psychedelic renaissance continue without being able to participate. I never got to try DMT/aya, either.
I don't want to type forever and I don't want to preach. But I've learned the hard way that I have to let go of psychedelics completely, and I would encourage anyone that has a family or personal history of bipolar/schizophrenia/psychosis to quit while they're ahead. A psychotic or manic episode is enough to destroy your life.
There's just no way I can use this stuff ever again. I wish you all the best.
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magicschoolbus



Registered: 02/19/18
Posts: 160
Loc: Shroomery
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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..... so what happened?
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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If it were me, i'd try mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT with Harmalas (Psilohuasca) or Ayahuasca before totally giving up, or experimenting around with adding admixture plants or supplements or certain essential oils with the Psychedelic of choice, as you can add a lot to the Psychedelic and alter it in favorable ways as to cut back on potential risks or bring certain aspects out or flavor it to your liking to better fit your own neurochemistry or whatever the case may be, there's a lot of potential in herbal combinations with Psychedelics, rather than just relying solely on the Psychedelic itself. I mean ultimately it's your body/mind, and your choice, but i think it's a worthy area of investigation but perhaps some are not stable enough for such experimentation. Also keep in mind the dosage, sometimes, for some people, more is not better, if you can use a low to moderate dosage, or a high dosage but not heavy dosage, and get good results, then no need to push it imo.
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Backbone
Stranger



Registered: 01/18/20
Posts: 339
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Maybe just scroll these forums every now and then and laugh at the bullshit trips everyone is posting on here, you have to be gentle to yourself sometimes and respectful of reality you cant escape problems from a drug, scars should be worn with pride. If you see shadows and shit don't take psychedelics. I probably have mania, and bipolar lol but idgaf because if i don't believe in those disorders or rather i have no way to know if i have them because it all feels self induced and subjective anyways, what good is it going to do me to avoid shit that might trigger an episode. Also don't ever go to a psych ward again lol and especially not naked and don't punch walls because they'll put you on all types of atrocious shit, i've been there several times. Everyday feels like a psychotic or manic episode to me, shit i do to myself to ward off a pointless existence. Sometimes you need to be a passenger, kind of watch all the stuff your brain likes to do get used to it so you dont get totally consumed by it
Edited by Backbone (02/15/20 09:59 PM)
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Hotdog from Space
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/19
Posts: 74
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Backbone]
#26487781 - 02/16/20 12:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, you did 7g
So what was the psychosis about?
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MadHatter333
We Are All Mad Here

Registered: 09/20/17
Posts: 4,650
Loc: Your Mom’s Rabbit Hole
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I too was recently diagnosed with bipolar and paranoia... I was also in and out of the psych ward last year. They gave me medication that I took for several months before realizing how shity they made me feel. I’ve been off my meds for over two months now and feel waaaay better!
Did Lucy a few times so far this year and I feel like it’s helped me more than any of the crap they tried to give me. I almost feel that medication they give is just marketing bullshit. I’d never take pharmaceuticals ever again!!
Going to do mushrooms again soon. I recommend anyone with a “mental disorder” not to believe in the hype of modern medicine and instead go the psychedelic route. Doctors make stuff up... a diagnosis can even be a death sentence in some cases. If you believe something enough it becomes reality. Change your mind and the world changes with you.
--------------------
TEKs I Like
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Backbone
Stranger



Registered: 01/18/20
Posts: 339
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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I didnt say doctors make shit up (but they do) i just said its impossible to know if you really have a disorder like that tbh more so when youre young because how would you know until youve experienced the symptoms or had something to relate them to . I quit taking my medications and ima be real with you i wake up and it feels like i have a tourniquet around my brain stem, As soon as i start doing stuff it kinda goes away though.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Quote:
PrimeNumber said: I thought I was safe because mushrooms are a sacrament, and how could a sacrament exclude people, especially ones that are suffering the most?
As much as I love shrooms I really disagree with this statement and imo this attitude gets lots of people in trouble.
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Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 4 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: mushboy]
#26829757 - 07/17/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
PrimeNumber said: I thought I was safe because mushrooms are a sacrament, and how could a sacrament exclude people, especially ones that are suffering the most?
As much as I love shrooms I really disagree with this statement and imo this attitude gets lots of people in trouble.
I definitely agree with this. The comment sounds very 'entitled to an experience' to me.
I feel a lot less bad that this user called me a cunt because I said trip-reports were masturbatory
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Don’t get too down on yourself now, you’re still participating every day & every night. 
What do you think our so called ordinary experience is? And how about our dreams at night when we go to sleep?
You can’t tell me when you are thinking of this or that - that you aren’t experiencing something which is absent from objective reality - yet - perceptible to only yourself - ie. is naturally hallucinogenic, all of our sense experience is.
You can’t tell me that laying in bed and hallucinating deeply & magically every night isn’t participating, you just can’t. Now a days I only really feel the need to take a big trip once or twice, maybe three times a year at most - even then, it’s about life & awareness - something I don’t actually need psychedelics for if I’m really paying attention. It’s okay to not use psychedelics.
Become aware of the primal trip.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/17/20 11:39 PM)
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Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 4 days
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Don’t get too down on yourself now, you’re still participating every day & every night. 
What do you think our so called ordinary experience is? And how about our dreams at night when we go to sleep?
You can’t tell me when you are thinking of this or that - that you aren’t experiencing something which is absent from objective reality - yet - perceptible to only yourself - ie. is naturally hallucinogenic, all of our sense experience is.
You can’t tell me that laying in bed and hallucinating deeply & magically every night isn’t participating, you just can’t. Now a days I only really feel the need to take a big trip once or twice, maybe three times a year at most - even then, it’s about life & awareness - something I don’t actually need psychedelics for if I’m really paying attention.
Become aware of the primal trip.
What a beautiful message
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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My man 
I read a lot of sadness in your post for which you definitely have not received enough sympathy from the folks in this thread. Perhaps you didn't post for sympathy - more a warning? Regardless, I am sorry that this happened to you and that you have to (at least) consider stepping away from psychedelics.
To the other guys who have had diagnoses thrown at you, I respect that that feels like antagonism from the medical establishment. The DSM labels lack any of the nuance needed to capture what it is like to be you. To boot, the use of psycho-pharmaceuticals is equivalent to using a hammer to thread a needle. But I have worked in psyc wards (as a student) and there are MANY people who DO NOT need any more rhetorical, let alone pharmaceutical, encouragement to completely lose it.
I feel for anyone who is in your shoes OP. I wish you well.
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Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 4 days
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A lot of people aren't giving the guy(girl?) sympathy because they are acting recklessly and dangerously. They need professional help, not mushrooms.
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Azure Essence said: A lot of people aren't giving the guy(girl?) sympathy because they are acting recklessly and dangerously. They need professional help, not mushrooms.
I understand your perspective , Im just tryna catch these flies (in this case potentially disaffected folks who are marginalised by mainstream society who are trying to convince them that their fast, creative and/or elevated perspective is crazy) with honey
Edited by microbiome88 (07/18/20 12:05 AM)
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TexasTea
Stranger


Registered: 05/26/20
Posts: 53
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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The OP hasn't been on here in 4 months. Thoughts to him for healing.
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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
Posts: 264
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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To the OP..
Sorry you had such a long psychotic episode. I get the feeling you are at a place now where you can separate the good a bad (bullshit) responses that have been posted thus far.
The recommendation to avoid psychedelics when you have a psychiatric history is not a hard rule. There is most likely but not proven to be a higher chance of negative consequences such a the psychotic break you experienced.
The fact that you have used mushrooms many times before without becoming psychotic is evidence of that.
The risk is always going to be there and the choice is always yours. It is simply a risk/benefit decision. You know your mind and body more than another person could ever or should ever suppose to know.
I am not a proponent of medication but there exceptions and extreme cases.
I would start by going back to the basics. Healthy diet, exercise and sleep if possible. Give yourself some time to heal from this experience and don’t put too much pressure on deciding the future of your psychedelic usage. The mind can be very resilient and self heal given time and gentle care.
Ignore the A-holes on this forum that have never seen or experienced a psychotic break/episode. Their comments are glaringly obvious and blatantly irresponsible.
For now just focus on the “easiest, gentlest, and most elegant trip of your life” that you experienced before the shit hit the fan. Most of the “civilians” out there will never experience a trip at all during their entire lifetime. Hold on to the positivity of that moment and don’t let go. Push the negative shit out the door. You went through hell and survived, able to share and educate the rest of us.
Your honesty and ability to share is a demonstration of strength and character.
Hope you venture back and read this someday.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
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For the record, my opinion is that the medical establishment really doesnt know shit when it comes to the mind or mental disorders
Basically we read a book that lists disorders and criteria and if you meet a certain number of criteria bam, you have it and bam, the book tells you how to treat it (meds and therapy)
Kind of a guessing game shit show if you ask me
Very few professionals are operating from a place of direct experience which lead to wisdom and qualifications to treat this stuff
I admit some have a better idea than others and many know more than me
Shroomerite doctors will aparantly diagnose you based on some txt in a post
Complete fucking ignorance and arrogance sitting on their horse
What a joke
Take it with a grain of salt
Hope the best for you op.. Stick in there
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26830433 - 07/18/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Absolutely.
I was on SSRIs for 7 years. I have been free this month, completely, for 4 years. Best thing I ever did, coming off that shot.
But get this. It was only when I was coming off them, doing my research, and all that. It dawned on me that the doctors had been using me basically as a guinea pig. They put me on one; I could not stop rolling with laughter at work. They put me on another; my teeth and tongue went black. They put me on another; I could not get out of bed, work put me on variable hours for 9 months so I could start at say 11am, but then did my 8 hours. They stop working after about a year. They put me on something else; it didn’t work. They put me on another.
This went on. Alll in all they put me on about 7 different types of SSRI. None worked. The final straw was with the last SSRI, I lost the ability to actually feel joy. Can’t think of the medical term for it, but life became unbearable.
Mushrooms saved my life, literally. But the doctors have no FUCKING idea how the brain works, how SSRIs work, and s-ecifically how SSRIs work on your brain.
Rosalind Watts (ICLMLondon, psilocybin research team) said about a year ago in an interview, that the medical professionals and pharmaceuticals HAVE NO LONG TERM DATA ON THE SAFETY OF SSRIS. They only have enough evidence to pass the FDA checks and allow them to go on sale to the public. Think about that, people. Maybe that’s why the withdrawal symptoms are so bad, many people stay on them for life.
I’ve said enough! Mush love DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26830446 - 07/18/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anhedonia 
Glad you made it off ssri slop. I had a very similar tussle with them for a year, switching around from this to that and so on etc- all for those awful side effects, risks & consequences, and negligible benefit! - what a nightmare! Cheers to freedom
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Anhedonia 
Glad you made it off ssri slop. I had a very similar tussle with them for a year, switching around from this to that and so on etc- all for those awful side effects, risks & consequences, and negligible benefit! - what a nightmare! Cheers to freedom 
my friend
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26830532 - 07/18/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yep yep
Profit off the poison and the cure
But the cure is really just a sedative and money maker
Best chance is therapy that involves things like meditation and awareness and acceptance practices
Thats if you forgo the ancient medicines
Just a profit game and anything that isnt profit isnt used in the industry
Anything that might delete the customer base is abandon
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26830699 - 07/18/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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We can't go around shaking people and maker them understand so at the very least we can peek over the fences and make eye contact.
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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I agree and empathise with ya'lls statements above. I mean not at all to dismiss your experiences - they must be frustrating to at the very minimum. Psychiatry is like trying to do particle physics with a chisel and hammer. Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?
I better submit my bias here - I work within the medical establishment. This means I have seen people helped greatly by the crude pharmaceuticals that are in vogue - mostly in the realm of anxiety and depression. Definitely not a comprehensive solution but often an uptick in quality of life. When it comes to psychotic disorders though, the management seems like playing hide and seek in the dark. I am definitely an advocate for all the psychedelic research in these areas.
I feel it needs to be acknowledged that there is at least an idealistic striving for empiricism by most health professionals and scientists. On the other hand there is an undeniably nefarious corporate influence that muddies this empiricism - I am actually at a bit of a loss to know how pervasive that is tbh but it is worrying.
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Quote:
Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?
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Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 4 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: mushboy]
#26831324 - 07/18/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
I did hear this last week or so, but don't remember exactly, can you share it again with me?
Something to do with rats that are kept in labs for testing usually have longer telemeres because of better conditions(or something like that), and not really the chemicals they're testing on them?
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
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Yeah maybe you guys are right. Im super biased and have a vendetta against a system i find corrupt and lacking
I suppose its grey vs black and white as usual
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26831363 - 07/18/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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nah with the system is totally black and white.
its us vs them and fuck them.
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26831410 - 07/18/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: Yeah maybe you guys are right. Im super biased and have a vendetta against a system i find corrupt and lacking
I suppose its grey vs black and white as usual
My friend I don't intend to alienate you and your views - I reckon they are more than valid.
I guess I am just trying to come gently to the defence of a system whos roots come from a place of good intentions.
(First one to say "Good intentions pave the road to hell" or similar gets a remote high-five )
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Azure Essence said:
Quote:
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
I did hear this last week or so, but don't remember exactly, can you share it again with me?
Something to do with rats that are kept in labs for testing usually have longer telemeres because of better conditions(or something like that), and not really the chemicals they're testing on them?
Thats the gist, yeah!
Its explained on Brets darkhorse podcast, Eric's portal podcast and i believe their respective Joe rogan interviews.
Apologises for referencing joe rogan in an intellectual discussion
Edited by microbiome88 (07/18/20 07:36 PM)
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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: mushboy]
#26831433 - 07/18/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?

The meme reference is too meta for me - hopefully im not coming across too sanctimoniously
I imagine this discussion has been had many times before here
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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I feel for the OP but their timeline is suspicious when it comes to blaming the mushrooms. I've never had any side effect from tripping mushrooms show up suddenly a week later. In shroom time that's ancient history. I'm BP 2 and when I do mushrooms in the depressive part of the cycle they immediately reset me to the top of the peak. Not a week later. Just saying. 
I suspect the OP was just wired to explode eventually.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 4 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26831559 - 07/18/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I feel for the OP but their timeline is suspicious when it comes to blaming the mushrooms. I've never had any side effect from tripping mushrooms show up suddenly a week later. In shroom time that's ancient history. I'm BP 2 and when I do mushrooms in the depressive part of the cycle they immediately reset me to the top of the peak. Not a week later. Just saying. 
I suspect the OP was just wired to explode eventually.
Agreed. I looked over some of their post history and there's pretty crazy manic patterns of mega-doses and the like.
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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I am with Enkidu, and welcome intellectual debate. My views are that SSRIs can and are helpful to some people. And in the short term can be a positive solution.
My anti-establishment bias on this stems from 2 aspects:
1. The doctors, good intentioned as they are, do not know how SSRIs provide this help. (Yes we know they block serotonin reuptake thereby flooding the brain with feel good serotonin. So they are rebranded and used as anti depressants, dieting aids, appetite suppression, sleep enhancement.........)
2. They are only ever intended for short term use. My doctor said this to me when as a matter of courtesy, I presented him with my research when weaning myself of them after 7 years! Could have punched hi,; at one consultation, he stressed that I should not worry about the cost to him for this medication and that there was no problem me being on them for the rest of my life.
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26831866 - 07/19/20 03:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJ Ed said: I am with Enkidu, and welcome intellectual debate. My views are that SSRIs can and are helpful to some people. And in the short term can be a positive solution.
My anti-establishment bias on this stems from 2 aspects:
1. The doctors, good intentioned as they are, do not know how SSRIs provide this help. (Yes we know they block serotonin reuptake thereby flooding the brain with feel good serotonin. So they are rebranded and used as anti depressants, dieting aids, appetite suppression, sleep enhancement.........)
2. They are only ever intended for short term use. My doctor said this to me when as a matter of courtesy, I presented him with my research when weaning myself of them after 7 years! Could have punched hi,; at one consultation, he stressed that I should not worry about the cost to him for this medication and that there was no problem me being on them for the rest of my life.
Take care DJ Ed
I can feel your knuckles clenching in that consult, DJ. Rightly so.
Handy that you are a resourceful fellow and were able to do your own appraisal.
Was this a psychiatrist?
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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No it was my GP (general practitioner).
My research was multi-pronged, and I did unearth some quite worrying data relating to SSRI medication.
It all started back with Prozac when research into LSD was more or less globally banned, so they turned their attentions to SSRIs.
SSRIs were introduced, and suddenly they were working for everybody. I now belief that “honeymoon period” from the 80s is over, nd they aren’t turning out to be the magical cure all after all.
The scariest part is the lack of long term studies into their effects. Speaking from personal experience only, why are the withdrawal symptoms so bad? Something not right is happening when these drugs become part of your brain’s biology.
I also found (tenuous) links to SSRI use and mass shootings in schools in the States......
And then the bit about the re-branding. When I started on SSRI medication, I lost a lot of weight because my appetite was suppressed. I became very ill and was admitted to hospital; not eating and type 1 diabetes do not mix. I ended up in a situation where I had lost so much body fat that I could no longer absorb my insulin. So ketoacidosis kicked in and I was very close to death. It’s 11 years since that, and my appetite still has not recovered. Turns out the SSRI I was taking at the time is rebranded under another name, and prescribed to help people lose weight; it is rebranded and prescribed under another name to help women with PMT.
And then the fact they had to try me on at least 7 diffeeent medications, and they still did not work reliably.
But going back to your comment, yes my hands were clenched into fists! He had previously drawn me a picture of my brain and the serotonin going in all sorts of random directions. He then drew the serotonin goin in one direction. He said there is something wrong in your brain and these drugs fix it and make the serotonin move in the same direction. They only cost me pennies nd there are no implications of you staying in them for the rest of your life. So stop your worrying. So 7 years later when I presented my research to him, he turned round and said ; “they were only ever intended as a short term solution for you”.
Ok, I’ve said enough, again. I’ll get off my soapbox. Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
Posts: 264
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26832001 - 07/19/20 06:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Speaking in general, fucking with your brains endogenous chemicals and hormones etc will never be a long time solution or possible even a short term solution to any mental health issue. The brain is adaptive. If you crank up the serotonin supply your brain goes “where did all this serotonin come from? Time to turn down production”. Days to months later.. you are close to where you started.
Unfortunately it seems that the brain is not as good at turning the supply back on as quickly. Hence all of the prolonged withdraw symptoms and unpleasant medication weaning.
The idea of giving someone a pill that makes them feel good in the short term and placing them in the position of having to battle withdrawal when they are already struggling seems completely ludicrous.
Again, I’ll throw it out there, sometimes situations arise that are extreme enough that a person level of anguish requires a quick fix - ie suicidal patients with attempts or intent. Even in those circumstances I am not sure a pharma derived solution is really the correct methodology.
I think there are much better coping strategies that allow the brain to adapt slowly and more permanently for good. Therapy is often scoffed at but I think it has a place. Unfortunately most therapists are not worth the small amount of time they can devote to a patient in addition to the fact that all health care is monetarily driven. Better to see 15 paying customers with good health insurance for 30 minutes a day then truly sit with someone and dive into a real analysis let alone start to try and work with the patient on viable solutions.
On a more personal note I’ve always had a real hate for mental health medicine and pharma. When I had just turned 18 I went to a doctor for a checkup simply because I was healthy and hadn’t seen a MD since I was maybe 10 years old. It was actually my moms suggestion, I was on her health insurance plan and they offered a “free well check”. Why not make sure I’m healthy?? At 18 it just seemed like a simple way to pleas my mum and give her some comfort with a clean bill of health.
I end up in this A-holes office while he reads from a questionnaire asking me the most basic questions that anyone on the planet would probably answer in the affirmative to. Have you ever felt sad? Do you ever have a hard time concentrating? Do you have difficulty deciding what to do with your day? etc etc. after maybe 10 minutes of questions and a grand total of 20 minutes face to face I was diagnosed with what he called “depression” at the time. He comes in with “free” samples of Effexor and sends me out the door.
Two results: my mom suddenly had a depressed son (tore her up) and I had just started the worst few months of my life.. I don’t feel the need to list all of the side effects and negative shit I went through but messing with brain chemicals is absolutely fucking torture. Took my self off that shit at the suggestion of my GF and never looked back. The strange part is that was not the only time in my life a Doctor tried to peddle some medications to me for ailments I never even complained about.
I’ve come across many kind and caring people in the healthcare industry but I will say this wholeheartedly: Fuck Pharma and their scheming. If I need a mental reset I have found my solution.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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That is horrible, FrancoAmerican. I am so glad you’re OK. Playing devils advocate, and to give a full unbiased view, SSRIs did save my life. I was very close to suicide, going onto SSRIs was my commitment to my wife, as I’d resisted them for years. We had separated, which compounded my depression; my ongoing depression which was made worse 10 years prior when my first daughter died, led to my wife leaving. The SSRIs were my way of persuading her to come back!
It has been a really tough fight, this one bro. I have just looked through my bedroom drawer; my last pack of SSRIs is still in there; 100mg Sertaline (Zoloft). Handwritten on the packet is 0mg 20/07/2016.........4 years ago tomorrow I’ve been free!
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
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Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26832833 - 07/19/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrancoAmerican said: Speaking in general, fucking with your brains endogenous chemicals and hormones etc will never be a long time solution or possible even a short term solution to any mental health issue. The brain is adaptive. If you crank up the serotonin supply your brain goes “where did all this serotonin come from? Time to turn down production”. Days to months later.. you are close to where you started.
Unfortunately it seems that the brain is not as good at turning the supply back on as quickly. Hence all of the prolonged withdraw symptoms and unpleasant medication weaning.
The idea of giving someone a pill that makes them feel good in the short term and placing them in the position of having to battle withdrawal when they are already struggling seems completely ludicrous.
Again, I’ll throw it out there, sometimes situations arise that are extreme enough that a person level of anguish requires a quick fix - ie suicidal patients with attempts or intent. Even in those circumstances I am not sure a pharma derived solution is really the correct methodology.
I think there are much better coping strategies that allow the brain to adapt slowly and more permanently for good. Therapy is often scoffed at but I think it has a place. Unfortunately most therapists are not worth the small amount of time they can devote to a patient in addition to the fact that all health care is monetarily driven. Better to see 15 paying customers with good health insurance for 30 minutes a day then truly sit with someone and dive into a real analysis let alone start to try and work with the patient on viable solutions.
On a more personal note I’ve always had a real hate for mental health medicine and pharma. When I had just turned 18 I went to a doctor for a checkup simply because I was healthy and hadn’t seen a MD since I was maybe 10 years old. It was actually my moms suggestion, I was on her health insurance plan and they offered a “free well check”. Why not make sure I’m healthy?? At 18 it just seemed like a simple way to pleas my mum and give her some comfort with a clean bill of health.
I end up in this A-holes office while he reads from a questionnaire asking me the most basic questions that anyone on the planet would probably answer in the affirmative to. Have you ever felt sad? Do you ever have a hard time concentrating? Do you have difficulty deciding what to do with your day? etc etc. after maybe 10 minutes of questions and a grand total of 20 minutes face to face I was diagnosed with what he called “depression” at the time. He comes in with “free” samples of Effexor and sends me out the door.
Two results: my mom suddenly had a depressed son (tore her up) and I had just started the worst few months of my life.. I don’t feel the need to list all of the side effects and negative shit I went through but messing with brain chemicals is absolutely fucking torture. Took my self off that shit at the suggestion of my GF and never looked back. The strange part is that was not the only time in my life a Doctor tried to peddle some medications to me for ailments I never even complained about.
I’ve come across many kind and caring people in the healthcare industry but I will say this wholeheartedly: Fuck Pharma and their scheming. If I need a mental reset I have found my solution.
Quote:
DJ Ed said:
That is horrible, FrancoAmerican. I am so glad you’re OK. Playing devils advocate, and to give a full unbiased view, SSRIs did save my life. I was very close to suicide, going onto SSRIs was my commitment to my wife, as I’d resisted them for years. We had separated, which compounded my depression; my ongoing depression which was made worse 10 years prior when my first daughter died, led to my wife leaving. The SSRIs were my way of persuading her to come back!
It has been a really tough fight, this one bro. I have just looked through my bedroom drawer; my last pack of SSRIs is still in there; 100mg Sertaline (Zoloft). Handwritten on the packet is 0mg 20/07/2016.........4 years ago tomorrow I’ve been free!
Take care DJ Ed
Holy shit fellas. Both harrowing stories.
I am destined to be a GP and these are the types of stories that galvanise me to do better.
Problem with being a GP is youre a jack of all trades but a master of none - and youve got 15mins to apply your a-mastery
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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I almost wrote that about my GP, to try not to point the finger in his direction too much. What I should have made clear is that the GP who said “only ever intended as a short term fix”, was not a previous GP different part of the country who said you can stay on these for life if you want.
Take care, and good luck in your career, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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