|
Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26830532 - 07/18/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Yep yep
Profit off the poison and the cure
But the cure is really just a sedative and money maker
Best chance is therapy that involves things like meditation and awareness and acceptance practices
Thats if you forgo the ancient medicines
Just a profit game and anything that isnt profit isnt used in the industry
Anything that might delete the customer base is abandon
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
|
LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26830699 - 07/18/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
We can't go around shaking people and maker them understand so at the very least we can peek over the fences and make eye contact.
|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
|
I agree and empathise with ya'lls statements above. I mean not at all to dismiss your experiences - they must be frustrating to at the very minimum. Psychiatry is like trying to do particle physics with a chisel and hammer. Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?
I better submit my bias here - I work within the medical establishment. This means I have seen people helped greatly by the crude pharmaceuticals that are in vogue - mostly in the realm of anxiety and depression. Definitely not a comprehensive solution but often an uptick in quality of life. When it comes to psychotic disorders though, the management seems like playing hide and seek in the dark. I am definitely an advocate for all the psychedelic research in these areas.
I feel it needs to be acknowledged that there is at least an idealistic striving for empiricism by most health professionals and scientists. On the other hand there is an undeniably nefarious corporate influence that muddies this empiricism - I am actually at a bit of a loss to know how pervasive that is tbh but it is worrying.
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
|
|
Quote:
Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?
|
Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 3 days
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: mushboy]
#26831324 - 07/18/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
I did hear this last week or so, but don't remember exactly, can you share it again with me?
Something to do with rats that are kept in labs for testing usually have longer telemeres because of better conditions(or something like that), and not really the chemicals they're testing on them?
|
Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
|
|
Yeah maybe you guys are right. Im super biased and have a vendetta against a system i find corrupt and lacking
I suppose its grey vs black and white as usual
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26831363 - 07/18/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
nah with the system is totally black and white.
its us vs them and fuck them.
|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: Enkidu]
#26831410 - 07/18/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enkidu said: Yeah maybe you guys are right. Im super biased and have a vendetta against a system i find corrupt and lacking
I suppose its grey vs black and white as usual
My friend I don't intend to alienate you and your views - I reckon they are more than valid.
I guess I am just trying to come gently to the defence of a system whos roots come from a place of good intentions.
(First one to say "Good intentions pave the road to hell" or similar gets a remote high-five )
|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
|
Quote:
Azure Essence said:
Quote:
Anyone see Bret Weinstein's hypothesis on lab rat telomere length? If the theory and the saga behind it is true, it is truly despairing.
I did hear this last week or so, but don't remember exactly, can you share it again with me?
Something to do with rats that are kept in labs for testing usually have longer telemeres because of better conditions(or something like that), and not really the chemicals they're testing on them?
Thats the gist, yeah!
Its explained on Brets darkhorse podcast, Eric's portal podcast and i believe their respective Joe rogan interviews.
Apologises for referencing joe rogan in an intellectual discussion
Edited by microbiome88 (07/18/20 07:36 PM)
|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: mushboy]
#26831433 - 07/18/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Would it be a fair assertion that this community self-selects for people of whom psychiatry has failed?

The meme reference is too meta for me - hopefully im not coming across too sanctimoniously
I imagine this discussion has been had many times before here
|
PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
I feel for the OP but their timeline is suspicious when it comes to blaming the mushrooms. I've never had any side effect from tripping mushrooms show up suddenly a week later. In shroom time that's ancient history. I'm BP 2 and when I do mushrooms in the depressive part of the cycle they immediately reset me to the top of the peak. Not a week later. Just saying. 
I suspect the OP was just wired to explode eventually.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
|
Azure Essence


Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 8,272
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 3 days
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26831559 - 07/18/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I feel for the OP but their timeline is suspicious when it comes to blaming the mushrooms. I've never had any side effect from tripping mushrooms show up suddenly a week later. In shroom time that's ancient history. I'm BP 2 and when I do mushrooms in the depressive part of the cycle they immediately reset me to the top of the peak. Not a week later. Just saying. 
I suspect the OP was just wired to explode eventually.
Agreed. I looked over some of their post history and there's pretty crazy manic patterns of mega-doses and the like.
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
|
I am with Enkidu, and welcome intellectual debate. My views are that SSRIs can and are helpful to some people. And in the short term can be a positive solution.
My anti-establishment bias on this stems from 2 aspects:
1. The doctors, good intentioned as they are, do not know how SSRIs provide this help. (Yes we know they block serotonin reuptake thereby flooding the brain with feel good serotonin. So they are rebranded and used as anti depressants, dieting aids, appetite suppression, sleep enhancement.........)
2. They are only ever intended for short term use. My doctor said this to me when as a matter of courtesy, I presented him with my research when weaning myself of them after 7 years! Could have punched hi,; at one consultation, he stressed that I should not worry about the cost to him for this medication and that there was no problem me being on them for the rest of my life.
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26831866 - 07/19/20 03:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DJ Ed said: I am with Enkidu, and welcome intellectual debate. My views are that SSRIs can and are helpful to some people. And in the short term can be a positive solution.
My anti-establishment bias on this stems from 2 aspects:
1. The doctors, good intentioned as they are, do not know how SSRIs provide this help. (Yes we know they block serotonin reuptake thereby flooding the brain with feel good serotonin. So they are rebranded and used as anti depressants, dieting aids, appetite suppression, sleep enhancement.........)
2. They are only ever intended for short term use. My doctor said this to me when as a matter of courtesy, I presented him with my research when weaning myself of them after 7 years! Could have punched hi,; at one consultation, he stressed that I should not worry about the cost to him for this medication and that there was no problem me being on them for the rest of my life.
Take care DJ Ed
I can feel your knuckles clenching in that consult, DJ. Rightly so.
Handy that you are a resourceful fellow and were able to do your own appraisal.
Was this a psychiatrist?
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
|
No it was my GP (general practitioner).
My research was multi-pronged, and I did unearth some quite worrying data relating to SSRI medication.
It all started back with Prozac when research into LSD was more or less globally banned, so they turned their attentions to SSRIs.
SSRIs were introduced, and suddenly they were working for everybody. I now belief that “honeymoon period” from the 80s is over, nd they aren’t turning out to be the magical cure all after all.
The scariest part is the lack of long term studies into their effects. Speaking from personal experience only, why are the withdrawal symptoms so bad? Something not right is happening when these drugs become part of your brain’s biology.
I also found (tenuous) links to SSRI use and mass shootings in schools in the States......
And then the bit about the re-branding. When I started on SSRI medication, I lost a lot of weight because my appetite was suppressed. I became very ill and was admitted to hospital; not eating and type 1 diabetes do not mix. I ended up in a situation where I had lost so much body fat that I could no longer absorb my insulin. So ketoacidosis kicked in and I was very close to death. It’s 11 years since that, and my appetite still has not recovered. Turns out the SSRI I was taking at the time is rebranded under another name, and prescribed to help people lose weight; it is rebranded and prescribed under another name to help women with PMT.
And then the fact they had to try me on at least 7 diffeeent medications, and they still did not work reliably.
But going back to your comment, yes my hands were clenched into fists! He had previously drawn me a picture of my brain and the serotonin going in all sorts of random directions. He then drew the serotonin goin in one direction. He said there is something wrong in your brain and these drugs fix it and make the serotonin move in the same direction. They only cost me pennies nd there are no implications of you staying in them for the rest of your life. So stop your worrying. So 7 years later when I presented my research to him, he turned round and said ; “they were only ever intended as a short term solution for you”.
Ok, I’ve said enough, again. I’ll get off my soapbox. Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
Posts: 264
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26832001 - 07/19/20 06:12 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Speaking in general, fucking with your brains endogenous chemicals and hormones etc will never be a long time solution or possible even a short term solution to any mental health issue. The brain is adaptive. If you crank up the serotonin supply your brain goes “where did all this serotonin come from? Time to turn down production”. Days to months later.. you are close to where you started.
Unfortunately it seems that the brain is not as good at turning the supply back on as quickly. Hence all of the prolonged withdraw symptoms and unpleasant medication weaning.
The idea of giving someone a pill that makes them feel good in the short term and placing them in the position of having to battle withdrawal when they are already struggling seems completely ludicrous.
Again, I’ll throw it out there, sometimes situations arise that are extreme enough that a person level of anguish requires a quick fix - ie suicidal patients with attempts or intent. Even in those circumstances I am not sure a pharma derived solution is really the correct methodology.
I think there are much better coping strategies that allow the brain to adapt slowly and more permanently for good. Therapy is often scoffed at but I think it has a place. Unfortunately most therapists are not worth the small amount of time they can devote to a patient in addition to the fact that all health care is monetarily driven. Better to see 15 paying customers with good health insurance for 30 minutes a day then truly sit with someone and dive into a real analysis let alone start to try and work with the patient on viable solutions.
On a more personal note I’ve always had a real hate for mental health medicine and pharma. When I had just turned 18 I went to a doctor for a checkup simply because I was healthy and hadn’t seen a MD since I was maybe 10 years old. It was actually my moms suggestion, I was on her health insurance plan and they offered a “free well check”. Why not make sure I’m healthy?? At 18 it just seemed like a simple way to pleas my mum and give her some comfort with a clean bill of health.
I end up in this A-holes office while he reads from a questionnaire asking me the most basic questions that anyone on the planet would probably answer in the affirmative to. Have you ever felt sad? Do you ever have a hard time concentrating? Do you have difficulty deciding what to do with your day? etc etc. after maybe 10 minutes of questions and a grand total of 20 minutes face to face I was diagnosed with what he called “depression” at the time. He comes in with “free” samples of Effexor and sends me out the door.
Two results: my mom suddenly had a depressed son (tore her up) and I had just started the worst few months of my life.. I don’t feel the need to list all of the side effects and negative shit I went through but messing with brain chemicals is absolutely fucking torture. Took my self off that shit at the suggestion of my GF and never looked back. The strange part is that was not the only time in my life a Doctor tried to peddle some medications to me for ailments I never even complained about.
I’ve come across many kind and caring people in the healthcare industry but I will say this wholeheartedly: Fuck Pharma and their scheming. If I need a mental reset I have found my solution.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
|
That is horrible, FrancoAmerican. I am so glad you’re OK. Playing devils advocate, and to give a full unbiased view, SSRIs did save my life. I was very close to suicide, going onto SSRIs was my commitment to my wife, as I’d resisted them for years. We had separated, which compounded my depression; my ongoing depression which was made worse 10 years prior when my first daughter died, led to my wife leaving. The SSRIs were my way of persuading her to come back!
It has been a really tough fight, this one bro. I have just looked through my bedroom drawer; my last pack of SSRIs is still in there; 100mg Sertaline (Zoloft). Handwritten on the packet is 0mg 20/07/2016.........4 years ago tomorrow I’ve been free!
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
microbiome88
Acquaintance

Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 123
|
Re: 7 grams to Psychosis [Re: DJ Ed]
#26832833 - 07/19/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
FrancoAmerican said: Speaking in general, fucking with your brains endogenous chemicals and hormones etc will never be a long time solution or possible even a short term solution to any mental health issue. The brain is adaptive. If you crank up the serotonin supply your brain goes “where did all this serotonin come from? Time to turn down production”. Days to months later.. you are close to where you started.
Unfortunately it seems that the brain is not as good at turning the supply back on as quickly. Hence all of the prolonged withdraw symptoms and unpleasant medication weaning.
The idea of giving someone a pill that makes them feel good in the short term and placing them in the position of having to battle withdrawal when they are already struggling seems completely ludicrous.
Again, I’ll throw it out there, sometimes situations arise that are extreme enough that a person level of anguish requires a quick fix - ie suicidal patients with attempts or intent. Even in those circumstances I am not sure a pharma derived solution is really the correct methodology.
I think there are much better coping strategies that allow the brain to adapt slowly and more permanently for good. Therapy is often scoffed at but I think it has a place. Unfortunately most therapists are not worth the small amount of time they can devote to a patient in addition to the fact that all health care is monetarily driven. Better to see 15 paying customers with good health insurance for 30 minutes a day then truly sit with someone and dive into a real analysis let alone start to try and work with the patient on viable solutions.
On a more personal note I’ve always had a real hate for mental health medicine and pharma. When I had just turned 18 I went to a doctor for a checkup simply because I was healthy and hadn’t seen a MD since I was maybe 10 years old. It was actually my moms suggestion, I was on her health insurance plan and they offered a “free well check”. Why not make sure I’m healthy?? At 18 it just seemed like a simple way to pleas my mum and give her some comfort with a clean bill of health.
I end up in this A-holes office while he reads from a questionnaire asking me the most basic questions that anyone on the planet would probably answer in the affirmative to. Have you ever felt sad? Do you ever have a hard time concentrating? Do you have difficulty deciding what to do with your day? etc etc. after maybe 10 minutes of questions and a grand total of 20 minutes face to face I was diagnosed with what he called “depression” at the time. He comes in with “free” samples of Effexor and sends me out the door.
Two results: my mom suddenly had a depressed son (tore her up) and I had just started the worst few months of my life.. I don’t feel the need to list all of the side effects and negative shit I went through but messing with brain chemicals is absolutely fucking torture. Took my self off that shit at the suggestion of my GF and never looked back. The strange part is that was not the only time in my life a Doctor tried to peddle some medications to me for ailments I never even complained about.
I’ve come across many kind and caring people in the healthcare industry but I will say this wholeheartedly: Fuck Pharma and their scheming. If I need a mental reset I have found my solution.
Quote:
DJ Ed said:
That is horrible, FrancoAmerican. I am so glad you’re OK. Playing devils advocate, and to give a full unbiased view, SSRIs did save my life. I was very close to suicide, going onto SSRIs was my commitment to my wife, as I’d resisted them for years. We had separated, which compounded my depression; my ongoing depression which was made worse 10 years prior when my first daughter died, led to my wife leaving. The SSRIs were my way of persuading her to come back!
It has been a really tough fight, this one bro. I have just looked through my bedroom drawer; my last pack of SSRIs is still in there; 100mg Sertaline (Zoloft). Handwritten on the packet is 0mg 20/07/2016.........4 years ago tomorrow I’ve been free!
Take care DJ Ed
Holy shit fellas. Both harrowing stories.
I am destined to be a GP and these are the types of stories that galvanise me to do better.
Problem with being a GP is youre a jack of all trades but a master of none - and youve got 15mins to apply your a-mastery
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
|
I almost wrote that about my GP, to try not to point the finger in his direction too much. What I should have made clear is that the GP who said “only ever intended as a short term fix”, was not a previous GP different part of the country who said you can stay on these for life if you want.
Take care, and good luck in your career, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
|