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Igloomis
Ranger


Registered: 07/01/18
Posts: 101
Last seen: 11 months, 10 days
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Importance of casing layer?
#26486640 - 02/15/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I hope people don't mind all of my questions. Because there is so much info scattered all over this forum (and some of it quite old) I'm trying to compartmentalize some specific topics to get the latest concensus.
Question 1: How important is a casing layer?
Question 2: What's the best time to apply it?
Question 3: Doesn't it inhibit your awareness of colonization progression?
Question 4: When/if to start misting when using a casing?
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Neowynd8

Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 277
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Igloomis]
#26486647 - 02/15/20 07:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Most people don't use one for cubes. Although, lot of people say it helps prevent blobs if you're growing Penis Envy.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Igloomis] 1
#26486650 - 02/15/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You're in luck, I was just compiling quotes from tc by subject in a journal and I started with casing.as a topic so here's my answers and then a few tc quotes on casings.
Just a reminder I found all this very easily using the advanced search function and limited the results to two years.
1 not nessecary but often helpful (I use one every time) case at spawning with cv 2 in my opinion at spawning 3 no - case and fruit at spawning - no need to monitor it, just set and forget until harvest 4 monotubs are set and forget, misting should be done when dry, but often is not nessecary until after harvest.
Casings
Quote:
stareatclouds said: Here's an AA tub with half cased:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25192625#25192625
Quote:
stareatclouds said: I don't think a casing layer has to be completely non-nutritious, it's just more beneficial to be. A casing layer provides extra moisture and creates a microclimate to stimulate pinning. I add a layer of my sub on top and fruit at spawning and it's not always eaten up. It's super beneficial for shoebox totes since they're prone to drying out quickly.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25495284#25495284
Quote:
stareatclouds said: There's really no reason not to case immediately, in my opinion. It's not like it's a difficult process or has any real downsides. I always put a thin layer of CVG over my shoeboxes and let them go. A casing layer helps with moisture, stimulates pinning, etc.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25238242#25238242
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Casing rarely if ever hurts. I have seen very few cultures that didn’t like a casing. Casing with these is fine, just not a requirement.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26141289#26141289
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: First casing layers rock. They are not required the way it is for agaricus, but they do have lots of benefits especially for people in dry or cold regions. Peat is a great casing material but I have a few issues with it. First is that it needs perfect pasteurization and you probably want to buffer it as well. I don’t like having to have a pile of different media to deal with all the time so I no longer use peat to case with. Coir and verm are nearly bulletproof and I already have them on hand for use as bulk media.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25648925#25648925
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Pastywhyte said: Cubes can colonize casing layers just fine.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25396978#25396978
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: my old F2 RW clone did terrible in bottles and also did not appreciate uncased bulk.

But spawn it to a mono with a pseudo casing or real casing and it takes right off
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26196379#26196379
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I use coir as a casing
I have also seen limed peat get fully colonized.
Coir as a casing material:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25738419#25738419
Quote:
eatyualive said: For case at spawning, the idea is that it speeds things up quite a bit from spawn to fruit. To me dialing in is just getting things to work in your environment and your variables. The case at spawn method doesn’t need dialing in. You let the mushrooms do their thing and they fruit themselves. Meaning no effort required. Mushrooms are going to fruit when all the variables are right for fruiting. This method requires little to no maintenance.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26301388#26301388
Quote:
LotKid said: I used to make an actual casing for everything using peat but now I only do that for PE.
Everything else I just put a layer of coir/verm on top. I don't think the term "pseudo-casing" works well to describe using coir/verm as a casing. Whether you apply it at spawning or at 100% colonization. I like to apply my CV thick enough that it acts as a casing by providing a humid microclimate at the surface of the substrate.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25576951#25576951
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Holybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,551
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Igloomis]
#26486660 - 02/15/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am not the most qualified person to be giving definite answers to those questions but I will share my experiences and I imagine you are probably about to get a few contrasting answers.
I can tell you from my experiences that you don't have to have a casing layer, but it allows for more room for error in the fruiting environment and for me lack of one makes it harder to get an even pinset and seems to most negatively impact the subsequent flushes.
IMO, after or very near full colonization when you are ready to fruit. But I have experimented with adding it earlier without catastrophic, and sometimes good, results. I imagine there are scenarios in which you may benefit from adding it earlier, but the earlier you add it the higher your contam risk rises as not only does that give more time for contams to develop in your casing layer but you might be exposing uncolonized substrate to contamination.
Not if you wait until you are ready to fruit.
Misting is a trickier question, as it depends on a lot of other variables. Honestly, I don't like misting. I think it should be done as little as possible, and a casing layer works to that end. People have a tendency to over mist, both acutely and chronically. Too much moisture is very bad, and rapid changes in moisture level are bad, and every time you mist you risk contaminating your grow.
The casing layer ensures your substrate retains moisture and more importantly moisture remains consistent at the surface.
I guess the answer of when to mist, is before/as your casing layer dries out. But just because your casing layer looks a touch dry on top doesn't mean its dry on the bottom. With a proper set up you should never need to mist during fruiting except possibly between flushes after harvesting and even then only lightly.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Holybullshit]
#26486963 - 02/15/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think that it would also be helpful for anyone with experience with it to comment on jiffy mix casing unpasteurized.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26486977 - 02/15/20 11:54 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Jiffy mix out of the bag just wetted contaminated on after a flush or two for me.
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26487024 - 02/15/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I’ve always cased between 80-100% colonized.
I use jiffy 5050 straight from the bag, then mix in probly 20% verm. I’ve only done it a handful of times and a few did contam after the second or during the third flush but they were pe so it had been quite a while.
I have extremely low rh, so I always use a top layer at spawn. Occasionally I’ll get a tub that still grows super fuzzy on the surface and then I’ll case it because I have problems with myc like that drying out/matting a little bit.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (02/15/20 12:33 PM)
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pureshrooming
feels like a stranger

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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: A.k.a]
#26487087 - 02/15/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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If using jiffy mix as a casing layer, is there any benefit to running it through the PC first? I've never used a casing layer but I just put some PE to agar and plan to use one on these tubs.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Pasteurize jiffy and peat based casing, do not sterilize.
I like to get more than one flush from my tubs so I'm not going to attempt jiffy without a proper pasteurization. Running some with my sous vide as we speak.
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#26487213 - 02/15/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah my very first grow I used a tek that was solid until it said sterilize the casing and almost killed my tub at the last second.
I’ll see how many flushes I get now that I’m using agar.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (02/15/20 03:47 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
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Re: Importance of casing layer? [Re: A.k.a]
#26487589 - 02/15/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you do a top layer, make sure you apply it light and fluffy. I kinda sprinkle mine on at spawning. So when your spawn is colonizing your substrate it is also colonizing the top layer at the same time. So you don’t have to wait days for the bulk sub to colonize. You are basically killing two birds with one stone and knocking off days of waiting for a bulk sub to colonize.
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