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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26945096 - 09/19/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
So if oats do fine being out of the hull, what makes burst oats bad?




I'll  try and answer both your questions.

First, oats can be fine without the hull because they still have the bran. These two get confused a lot. The hull is the part that makes whole oats inedible (fibrous shell), the bran is the dark outside that is the difference between whole wheat and white flour. It is the bran that bursts in burst grains, not the hull.



To answer why g2g is better than an agar wedge to inoculate oats is because the hull of the oats better harbors endospores. This gives oats a shorter "inoculation window" before the endospores recover and outcompete the mycelium. G2g has many more inoculation points than a wedge, so the mycelium can easily colonize the oats before the bacteria is able to get its foot in the door.


Edited by One of Us (09/19/20 11:12 PM)


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26945103 - 09/19/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

5-6 weeks is a little excessive for a single wedge. Expect it using my method if you start from a wedge. Like I said oats are best suited for g2g figure out whats best suited for you.

I don't give a shit about endospores. If you PC correctly they can eat a dick.


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Edited by Grimsweeper (09/19/20 11:19 PM)


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: One of Us]
    #26945111 - 09/19/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

~Noted~

Im taking my ass to bed. It's late here. Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I'll utilize it.


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26945116 - 09/19/20 11:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I used to believe that, but I can say that this last bag of oats had a huge endospore load.  Ruined my grows for months until I started PC-ing for 3.75 hours.

I used impeccably clean wedges on antibacterial agar, and had bacterial spawn, every. Single. Jar. Several different strains/cultures, too.

I used to think endospore count was a non issue if you vent properly, etc, and all the horror stories from people were just because they didn't sterilize properly. But then it happened to #metoo


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26945150 - 09/19/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

5-6 weeks for a jar to colonize is unacceptable in my book. My rye jars take about 2 weeks tops to colonize.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: LotKid]
    #26945170 - 09/19/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I find yield to correlate to weight over volume.



:takingnotes:I'm off to the feed store tomorrow. Hoping they have some rye and wheat.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: LotKid]
    #26945739 - 09/20/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
5-6 weeks for a jar to colonize is unacceptable in my book. My rye jars take about 2 weeks tops to colonize.



Rye is superior by far but 5 times the price of oats for me.  Paying cash locally is also a win.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26945947 - 09/20/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

.40/lb for ats and 2.00/lb for rye is a massive difference but if you account all the time and effort involved in creating what could be failed spawn, I am starting to think the cost savings isnt worth it at all.

The hull is both a blessing and an a curse. It can be highly beneficial for the myc if it actually catches, but it also harbors endospores. The hull is also likely why it takes so long to colonize. This longer period also provides time for any bacterial spores to cvatch up and germinate and thus competing with the myc.

Again, I used to love oats but i think i'm retiring them for now.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: maxmush]
    #26946640 - 09/20/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

We talking esker oats or we talking cosaque black winter oats?.....lol As if oats are oats and cubes are cubes.

Are those moths in the bag or are they beetles?

In an ideal world all oats would be equal.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Nichrome]
    #26946670 - 09/20/20 06:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:breakthrough:


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Failboat]
    #26948486 - 09/21/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Fresh out of the PC. Still a lot of burst grain. Boiled some water, removed from stove, soaked the oats for 30 minutes and dried in strainers for about 7 hours. The oats felt dry to the touch. When the jars are turned upside down only a few grains stick to the side and the moisture is likely from the sticky oats that aren't in the hull. If say about 25% are burst and there weren't very many that looked burst before the PC. Would you inoculate this?



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Offlinesporecap
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26948661 - 09/21/20 11:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Your jar looks exactly like mine when I take them out of the PC. There's quite a lot of condensation and the grains stick to the side like in your pic. I give it a good shake and let it sit for 1-2 days on the shelf. If I am really bored I give it another shake then, but after that all the condensation has been reabsorbed and the grains look quite dry. I guess this will happen for you as well.
And I hardly see any burst grains in your jar? Maybe 2-5% max? It looks spot on to me, go for it:thumbup:


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OfflineLoomy
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: sporecap]
    #26948684 - 09/22/20 12:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

My Anecdotal opinion is I hate oats and they suck. Switched to wheat and never went back. Easier prep too IMO


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Loomy]
    #26948874 - 09/22/20 07:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Im definitely going to let it sit for a few days. I did a few other practice runs and they both had similar condensation. After a day or so it dried up but this jar has seems much stickier. I'm gonna follow the advice of the pros and use another grain for my masters but I really want to master oats. When I found this forum, I was following all of Bod's teks and still currently am for the most part. I've got a few bags of rye on the way right now but so far oats have been a challenge for me and I'm determined to get it right before I start using something else.


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Offlinesporecap
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Loomy]
    #26948965 - 09/22/20 08:47 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Loomy said:
My Anecdotal opinion is I hate oats and they suck. Switched to wheat and never went back. Easier prep too IMO



:whathesaid: And cheaper usually


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: sporecap]
    #26950215 - 09/22/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Naysayers say what you will about oats. I've spawned 150 #'s of oats over the last eight weeks to harvest and thrown away 2 quarts. I haven't done the math but coir may be a bigger cost factor.


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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26950823 - 09/23/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Just picked up 250 lb of millet for $70.90 out the door.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26950847 - 09/23/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Any decent quality grain will work just fine. They each (even one type from batch to batch) require different prep and handling but will all produce just fine if you can adapt. I like oats. I prefer good rye but rye seems to vary a lot more in the batches I've seen. Some batches of rye make a lot of burst grains and some seem to never burst no matter how hard or long you boil/soak/cook them. It is all up to the cultivator what motivating factors lead them from one batch of grain to another.

All of these grains have worked well for me:

Oats
Corn
Barley
Rye
Rice
Millet
Sorghum
Tritacle
Spelt

I'm sure there are countless other grains/seeds that would work well.


WBS is a mix of things and is not considered a "grain" in my minds eye.

Each type of grain will vary with its factors like ease of prep, productivity, time, tendency to contaminate, from batch to batch.

The local feed/seed supplier here has train tracks through their lot and trains full of grain from all over the country leave tons of grain at a time there. It all gets bagged and labeled things like "winter rye" or "feed oats". There are hundreds if not thousands of varieties of things like oats and rye. Each one has a different average profile but things like amount of irrigation or available calcium or soluble silicon present in soils or what type of molds bacteria or insects are present have an effect on the specific batch.

Seed grade is my go to for any grain if it is available due to the cleanliness and the seeds being viable alive and packed with nutrition. "Food grade" is second in quality but generally more expensive, and feed grain is sort of the bottom of the barrel but usually very cheap and most importantly available.


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β€œBetter to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”


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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Nichrome]
    #26950894 - 09/23/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:goodday:


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Funky Monkey]
    #26955147 - 09/25/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

All my spawn I made with oats is fucked. All is triching out right before 1st flush is coming in. Im almost certain is because all my spawn is bacterial from taking so long to colonize on these oats. They smelled ok and start colonizing fine but crap out. I guess all just up my ration from 1:1 to 2:1 and hope for the best. I prepped hundreds of #'s. Im over these fucking oats.


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