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Offlinemorrowasted
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Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis
    #26477038 - 02/09/20 02:34 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/924495?src=soc_fb_200215_mscpedt_news_mdscp_cannabis&faf=1

Quote:


When added to opioids, cannabinoids in an oral spray were no better than placebo in reducing cancer pain in adults with advanced disease, concludes a new meta-analysis.
included five randomized controlled trials from the United Kingdom and Europe, and involved a total of 1442 patients.

"Cannabinoids cannot be recommended for the treatment of cancer-related pain," the authors conclude.

The results were published online on January 20 in BMJ Supportive & Palliative Care.

The finding throws some cold water on a hot topic, as cannabinoid use for cancer pain has been reported by about 20% of patients in two recent surveys, the authors note.

"There is an increased recent interest in cannabinoids (including cannabis) for [cancer] pain management" as legislative changes have occurred in many countries, writes senior author Jason Boland, PhD, FRCP, Wolfson Palliative Care Research Centre, Hull York Medical School, UK, and colleagues. He said some patients with advanced cancer he sees report taking cannabinoids, but he does not prescribe them.

Medicinal use of cannabis is legal in 40 countries and 29 US states. But, as cancer pain guidelines by the World Health Organization state, data analysis is needed.

The meta-analysis focused on chronic pain among advanced cancer patients.

"I don't know of any data showing cannabinoids work for acute pain," Boland told Medscape Medical News.

The product that was evaluated in studies included in the meta-analysis was a pump-action oromucosal spray that used 1:1 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC): cannabidiol (CBD) extracts (two of the many cannabinoids in cannabis).

The oromucosal spray product is not available in the United States, pointed out Erica Rhein, PharmD, University of Colorado Cancer Center, Aurora.

She explained that there is a "huge" variety of THC and CBD combination products in various strengths and ratios, as well as a multitude of ways to administer or ingest them.

The new analysis shows that a specific product did not improve patients' self-rated pain intensity, remarked Rhein. "However, this conclusion cannot really be extended to all cannabinoid products because they simply have not been studied in the same manner."

That said, she added, "studying every single product available on the market is not feasible."

The new study builds on a systematic review by German researchers (Schmerz 2019;33:424-436). Both efforts had the same overall conclusion, but the new work is based on additional methodological information, and thus, is supported by higher-quality evidence, say Boland and colleagues. 







:shrug:


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #26477596 - 02/09/20 08:21 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

What a bunch of horseshit, just maybe the problem was they were using a nasal spray(that is by now obsolete compared to real medical cannabis) that was designed to treat neuropathic pain from MS. This flies in the face of what has been experienced by thousands of people by now and countless other studies.

I also wonder what kind of doses of opioids these patients were on, considering they were advanced cases. If they had already gotten up to high doses, built up a tolerance, possibly even developed hyperalgesia that kind of clouds things a bit. But there is plenty of literature supporting the fact that cannabinoids potentiate opioid pain relief, so there should have been some action from that alone.

If anything it should read "Sativex no help for cancer pain". Also, meta-analysis isn't very suited to answer questions like this...they are better for things like long-term drug safety and side effects, effects of diet, and impact of socioeconomic status or career settings, etc. This would have been much more suitable for a controlled experiment. One positive about meta-analysis is they are fairly cheap to carry out...perfect for the production of propaganda if one so wishes.

But at least they interviewed one scientist who didn't have their head up their ass...

Quote:

The new analysis shows that a specific product did not improve patients' self-rated pain intensity, remarked Rhein. "However, this conclusion cannot really be extended to all cannabinoid products because they simply have not been studied in the same manner."




I guess to save face, or sleep better at night not feeling like they've sold their journalistic integrity after running a bullshit headline like that. Or just cloud the fact that this is obvious propaganda.


Edited by Holybullshit (02/09/20 08:33 PM)


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26477694 - 02/09/20 09:56 PM (4 years, 7 days ago)

what a stupid study

use full spectrum oil or REAL CANNABIS


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26478045 - 02/10/20 07:11 AM (4 years, 6 days ago)

All the study is saying is that the evidence wasn't sufficient enough for recommendations to be made. Not saying it doesnt work for anybody


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: morrowasted]
    #26478053 - 02/10/20 07:19 AM (4 years, 6 days ago)

yeah but the study was done with a stupid manner of administration. They dont understand terpenes and other cannabinoids, they think its all thc, they dont get its not like everything else.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: morrowasted]
    #26478083 - 02/10/20 07:57 AM (4 years, 6 days ago)

What a bunch of horseshit,


what a stupid study

use full spectrum oil or REAL CANNABIS


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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26478519 - 02/10/20 12:41 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

"cannabidiol (CBD) extracts (two of the many cannabinoids in cannabis)."

So of the over 100 cannabinoids they are only using two of them. Each one has a unique effect from decreasing anxiety (psychological pain) to decreasing physical pain.

That would be as if I took 2 of the weakest alkaloids out of the 200+ in a poppy plant and published an article stating there is no danger/risk with using this plant for pain relief.


--------------------
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Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: O_Dweeds] * 1
    #26478533 - 02/10/20 12:51 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

I believe that the route of administration is the problem,  smoked or vaporized is the best route for pain management with cannabis. I would have to eat a gram or more of oil to get the same relief.


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OfflineO_Dweeds
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Doc9151]
    #26478855 - 02/10/20 04:08 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

Definitely, ROA is a major factor as-well; however you are also saying cannabis where this publication is stating that they isolated only two cannabinoids and THC. Where strains of cannabis not only have a unique cannabinoid content, but also different levels of each cannabinoid. What is much needed is a study where all known cannabinoids are isolated & each tried for their medical benefits both with and without THC.

Unfortunately there is much more money in non-organic/synthetic molecules, where the majority of the studies published are conducted after internal R&D with a specific intended outcome.


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: SnowDaze]
    #26478897 - 02/10/20 04:44 PM (4 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

SnowDaze said:
yeah but the study was done with a stupid manner of administration. They dont understand terpenes and other cannabinoids, they think its all thc, they dont get its not like everything else.




There was no administration(at least by the researchers here), no experiment, it's a meta-analysis. They chose a stupid drug for the analysis...if anything though this should be used as support for advancing medical cannabis as it shows the products available through prescription right now are not effective enough and we need more.


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OfflineCrystalizedFungi
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26479571 - 02/11/20 05:19 AM (4 years, 6 days ago)

"When added to opioids, cannabinoids in an oral spray were no better than placebo "...

Of course weed isn't gonna be noticable sprinkled on top of opioids, this study did nothing at all


Edited by CrystalizedFungi (02/11/20 10:14 AM)


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: CrystalizedFungi]
    #26481020 - 02/11/20 08:34 PM (4 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

CrystalizedFungi said:
Of course weed isn't gonna be noticable sprinkled on top of opioids, this study did nothing at all



you misunderstood,  they are comparing one to the other and there is no comparison, They weren't giving them together.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Doc9151]
    #26481425 - 02/12/20 05:18 AM (4 years, 5 days ago)

That's not how I read it.

Quote:

The studies included were RCTs that assessed clinically relevant cannabinoids as an adjuvant to opioid medications[emphasis added] in patients with advanced cancer that had mixed aetiologies of pain due to their cancer.




Although this was not an experiment, just an analysis of previously created data, I imagine you'd have a hard time comparing opioids vs sativex alone in human advanced cancer patients for ethical reasons.


Edited by Holybullshit (02/12/20 05:22 AM)


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OfflineJizzMasterZero
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26481504 - 02/12/20 07:26 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

I know it’s popular now days to say that cannabis fixes every problem known to man, but I’ve never found that it relieves pain at all. I had foot surgery years ago, and cannabis definitely made my post op pain worse so I had to quit for a while. Who fucking cares what this study says, cannabis is widely available to those who want it. Let the individual make the choice.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: JizzMasterZero]
    #26481519 - 02/12/20 07:34 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

I dunno about (abdominal) pain, but when my friend was going through stomach cancer, taking a dab would stop him from projectile vomiting. He didn’t really even have time to use flower. It had to be either shatter or a legit c02 pen.

In my own experience, just dealing with regular nausea, if I really *need* to throw up, weed/thc will make me throw up. It’s also been proven recently that thc makes you really want to poop if your body needs to (that last part I’ve noticed with basically every tryptamine also, and some phens)

Basically I use thc for regular pain but when it comes to GI stuff, it seems rather than analgesia, it just makes you have to do what you have to do.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Fractal420]
    #26481536 - 02/12/20 07:49 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

if I have to puke , nothing will stop it, not weed, phenergan, zofran, nothing. sometimes,  if I catch it soon enough weed will help, but there are occasions where nothing works but purging.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: JizzMasterZero] * 1
    #26481586 - 02/12/20 08:34 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

JizzMasterZero said:
Who fucking cares what this study says, cannabis is widely available to those who want it. Let the individual make the choice.




Not for everyone.

As for pain, I think its better for neuropathic pain and chronic pain rather than acute pain. And from my experiences and what I've garnered from others it's not so much that it necessarily makes pain go away(although sometimes it does, especially in the case of musculoskeletal pain) is that it makes it easier to ignore the pain, or prevent a flair up.


Edited by Holybullshit (02/12/20 08:38 AM)


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Doc9151]
    #26481593 - 02/12/20 08:46 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
if I have to puke , nothing will stop it, not weed, phenergan, zofran, nothing. sometimes,  if I catch it soon enough weed will help, but there are occasions where nothing works but purging.




That’s how I feel, but I’ve also seen thc’s effect on nausea from chemo firsthand. I guess it works differently, perhaps. My friend would also dip shatter in CBD crystals and said that added to the anti-nausea effect. But CBD alone wouldn’t really help

More about recreating a part of the entourage effect


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Grinning wide
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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: Fractal420]
    #26481672 - 02/12/20 09:51 AM (4 years, 4 days ago)

I've talked with a few chemo patients who say they have tried cannabis and that zofran is more effective for chemo-induced nausea.

Cannabis is definitely not as effective for acute pain as opioids are. A basic understanding of how opioids work to interrupt pain signaling in the spinal cord makes studies like this a bit superfluous, honestly.

But I do agree that for some people it helps distract them from the pain and maintain a more positive attitude despite their circumstances.



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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Cannabinoids No Help for Cancer Pain, Concludes Meta-Analysis [Re: morrowasted]
    #26482186 - 02/12/20 03:23 PM (4 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I do agree that for some people it helps distract them from the pain and maintain a more positive attitude despite their circumstances.



That's what it does for me,  it helps to break the cycle when I can't seem to stop focusing on my pain. Cannabis doesn't take it away but makes it more bearable and it gives me an appetite I wouldn't have otherwise.


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