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Igloomis
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Very frustrated. Please advise
#26481516 - 02/12/20 07:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I did two grows using Quaesitor Tek and a reliable mail order spore source. I was overjoyed with the results. The third time I had to go out of town during the substrate colonization. When I came back all had been lost to gray mold.
On my fourth grow now and it is going into a nosedive. I did two tubs, one with my own substrate mix and the other with one mail ordered from someone we all know and love. About a week and a half into colonization I wondered if my problem had been not enough ventilation (lid on holes sealed) so I started letting it breath for a few seconds each day. But it soon appeared that colonization had come to a standstill. Weeks later there is very little advancement of mycelium and I'm seeing small spots of green.
Any observations?
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis] 2
#26481526 - 02/12/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wtf is Quaziator tek?
You done fucked up
Just start from scratch - put some spores on agar and make some good filtered lids. And while your agar grows you can read up on sterile tek and a fruiting tek that doesn’t suck.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26481611 - 02/12/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Igloomis said: I did two grows using Quaesitor Tek and a reliable mail order spore source. I was overjoyed with the results. The third time I had to go out of town during the substrate colonization. When I came back all had been lost to gray mold.
On my fourth grow now and it is going into a nosedive. I did two tubs, one with my own substrate mix and the other with one mail ordered from someone we all know and love. About a week and a half into colonization I wondered if my problem had been not enough ventilation (lid on holes sealed) so I started letting it breath for a few seconds each day. But it soon appeared that colonization had come to a standstill. Weeks later there is very little advancement of mycelium and I'm seeing small spots of green.
Any observations?
If you would like to upload some pics we would be happy to help you and make observations.
Quote:
feldman114 said: Wtf is Quaziator tek?
Idk but sounds kinda cool lol.
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Raccoon
Newb


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: gizmo1]
#26481637 - 02/12/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You're seeing spots of green, or you saw spots of green? If you are seeing green, throw out the sub. If you saw green, then I you already tossed the sub. Take a picture and post here if you're not sure, but do it now. As far as what went wrong, nobody knows what quausitor Tek is, haha.
-------------------- First Grow
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gizmo1



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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Raccoon]
#26481739 - 02/12/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The green could just be some bruising going on or something never know what the untrained eye is seeing without pictures.
I've searched quaziator here and no results well besides this thread. So I typed it into duckduckgo search engine and no results were found. Im not really sure if maybe that was a typo or something.
Edited by gizmo1 (02/12/20 10:46 AM)
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alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: gizmo1]
#26481753 - 02/12/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Apparentky a person called Principium Quaesitor authored some book called "Magic Mushroom Grower's Guide Simple Steps to Bulk Cultivation." Never heard of it.
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Well you got further than I did with searching lol. We're that much closer to decoding the tek used. I didn't see ot was spelled differently in OP than in the first reply no wonder I didnt find shit.
Edited by gizmo1 (02/12/20 10:59 AM)
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Sockadin



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No E-book available. Only paperback and written in 2014. I was just curious how many ideas where borrowed from this website. I might order it for fun.
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Igloomis
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Sockadin]
#26485033 - 02/14/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, that's the book. I was hoping someone was familiar with it.
My problem is not sterile conditions. I have a closed sterile lab and SAB. I have grown dozens of jars of spawn and never had any contamination, and I have had very successful grows. I think my error this time (and the previous, now that I think about it) was sealing my monotubs too tightly during bulk substrate colonization. The colonization seemed to slow to a crawl and possibly gave opportunity for contamination (if that's what it is).
Does that seem likely?
Here are the spots I saw. I removed them and they have not returned. Even though the mycelium was not thickly colonized due to slowed growth I decided to start fruiting to see what would happen. By this point the substrate looked very dry, so I am spritzing the tub walls regularly. Pins have developed (although sparsely) and are growing normally. I live in the desert and the air is horrifically dry this time of year. In the past, if growing in winter, my second flush was always much more productive after thorough rehydrating.
Question: If you suspect slight contamination but it doesn't progress noticeably is it safe to assume the mushrooms are OK, or is it a total loss anyway? At this point I'm considering it a learning opportunity regardless of if/what I harvest.
Edited by Igloomis (02/14/20 09:35 AM)
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Raccoon
Newb


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26485050 - 02/14/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think most would tell you to toss that sub. But if you removed the spots and your grow seems to be moving along, them let it grow. That mold is most likely not-pathogenic. However, I would quarantine that grow from your grow area... Maybe someone with more experience can chime in, but from all I read, once you see green, you don't have much time before your whole sub is green no matter what you do. Cutting it out, only buys you time to push out some fruits. Keep us posted on your progress, good luck.
-------------------- First Grow
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26485052 - 02/14/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ooof, that tub is fucked, bud.
The mean green takes no prisoners
But it prolly came from your spawn. The oxygen inside a tub should be enough for colonization.
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Igloomis
Ranger


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485375 - 02/14/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks for your feedback, everybody.
It makes sense that it came from the spawn but I carefully inspected it as I added it to the substrate and saw nothing.
Any credence to my theory of too much CO2 buildup in the early phase of colonization? My tubs have locking lids, which in my successful grows I left loose. The only other time I had contamination was when I went out of town and left the lids locked for a couple of weeks, all ventilation holes taped shut.
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26485379 - 02/14/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Did you carefully inspect the agar plate you used to knock up your spawn? How many transfers did you make?
Clean =\= visibly clean
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Igloomis
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: gizmo1]
#26485399 - 02/14/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Gizmo1 said, "Well you got further than I did with searching lol. We're that much closer to decoding the tek used. I didn't see ot was spelled differently in OP than in the first reply no wonder I didnt find shit. "
Sorry about that. This tek uses birdseed for spawn soaked with gypsum and coffee then sterilized in mason jars, and a bulk substrate of manure, coir, vermiculite, gypsum and coffee grounds in monotubs with 6 holes (taped over during substrate colonization, then top holes loosely packed polyfill and bottom tightly packed).
It seems to be generally similar to what I'm seeing here and I have had great results in the past.
Edited by Igloomis (02/14/20 12:51 PM)
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26485423 - 02/14/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ooh ok, I see the problem now. See, using outdated info will get you in trouble because mush cult is a fairly new “science”. It has evolved in major ways in the past 5 years alone.
If you check the date on the tek that lists coffee as an ingredient, I guarantee you’ll find that it’s 5-10 years old, if not more. Likewise, it was recently shown that light is beneficial during colonization, and that introducing “fruiting conditions” right after spawning reduces the wait for pins.
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485427 - 02/14/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Forgot the most important thing - learn agar. Until you see your culture on agar, you can’t possibly be sure it’s clean. Many contams are invisible on grain.
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Igloomis
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485462 - 02/14/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: Did you carefully inspect the agar plate you used to knock up your spawn? How many transfers did you make?
Clean =\= visibly clean
No agar. I injected from mail-ordered syringes (flame sterilized before each injection) through self-sealing inoculation ports on sterilized jars. The jars were moved directly from the sealed pressure cooker to SAB which had been sterilized with disinfectant and lined with alcohol-soaked paper towels. I sterilized the entire room (dedicated workspace with plastic lined walls and ceilings) beforehand and misted the air with disinfectant. I wore a clean lab coat, cloves, mask, and even used hand sanitizer on top of the gloves. Sprayed the lab coat sleeves with disinfectant before reaching into SAB. Other than a ventilation hood I can't imagine any way to make this procedure more sterile.
That's why I'm narrowing my focus to something going wrong in the substrate colonization phase. I even did one tub with my own substrate mixture and purchased pre-mixed/moistened/pasteurized substrate from one of the sponsor companies for a comparison.
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Igloomis
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485472 - 02/14/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's good to know. I have agar and petri dishes but haven't made that leap yet. My syringes come from a prominent sponsor of this forum. What do you think is the likelihood of impurity in such a source?
BTW, thanks so much for your help, guys. I feel like I'm alone in the wilderness doing this stuff. I am growing at my son's request because it has proven helpful for his depression.
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Smartattack
C'mon man



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Posts: 3,775
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26485497 - 02/14/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your in blind luck if you use a syringe and don't get contam. I started with syringes as well. Had contamination. Stopped using syringes, zero contamination. They really are regularly that bad. Reputable source or not. It's not even their fault, as used correctly (agar) syringe contam isn't an issue anyways. Straight to grain with it is the problem.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Smartattack]
#26485505 - 02/14/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think the Russian roulette analogy works best here. Cause, if I’m being honest, 4/5 times ms>grain will work...but that one time is gonna be a biiigity bitch.
I was kinda over the whole agar “fad” for a while, until I got a bunk syringe. 7 masters went to shit and I had empty monos waiting for spawn to colonize for weeks. Sooo not worth all the previous success.
Plus, you can’t clone well without agar, and cloning is a game-changer for anyone using ms>grain.
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goatchild
mr noob


Registered: 10/31/19
Posts: 162
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Smartattack]
#26485519 - 02/14/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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What if you make your own syringes? I did 3 recently. Was super careful and my jars seem ok so far. I guess the problem is even if we get super careful the spores can be infected right? And that would contaminate the syringe?
-------------------- "What stands in the way becomes the way."
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Igloomis
Ranger


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485528 - 02/14/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Can someone please recommend a good step-by-step guide for agar tek?
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: goatchild]
#26485531 - 02/14/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485538 - 02/14/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: I think the Russian roulette analogy works best here. Cause, if I’m being honest, 4/5 times ms>grain will work...but that one time is gonna be a biiigity bitch.
I was kinda over the whole agar “fad” for a while, until I got a bunk syringe. 7 masters went to shit and I had empty monos waiting for spawn to colonize for weeks. Sooo not worth all the previous success.
Plus, you can’t clone well without agar, and cloning is a game-changer for anyone using ms>grain.
Let me start out by saying I AM NOT suggesting anyone do this, but I used to constantly clone straight to grain and never lost on this method. Now in my new growing space and seeing how often you can get contams on agar while cloning I couldn't suggest this method to anyone. I used to get pretty damn lucky cutting corners. Now I can strive for perfection and chances are I still may fail. Im becoming efficient in keeping my failure from getting in the way of my success though.
OP definitely learn to use agar its super simple and will help you out alot.
-------------------- Trade List đź–•đź–•đź–• 6 hole Mini Monos
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Smartattack]
#26485616 - 02/14/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
What do you think is the likelihood of impurity in such a source?
This is biology, not chemistry. Spores are inherently contaminated. That is why agar is crucial, whether from print or syringe, it allows you to isolate clean growth before progressing.
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Igloomis
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:
What do you think is the likelihood of impurity in such a source?
This is biology, not chemistry. Spores are inherently contaminated. That is why agar is crucial, whether from print or syringe, it allows you to isolate clean growth before progressing.
I'm going to do this soon.
It seems like one syringe can go a long way since you're expanding the mycelium via the agar surface, right? In general, how many petri dishes would you recommend preparing, and how many CCs of spore solution from a syringe per dish? Start with one or multiple parallel dishes? And how many generations from the first dish are typical before all contaminants are eliminated?
You can slice the mycelium-bearing agar with a sterile scalpel and drop it directly into the sterilized spawn jars, right?
I already have sterile petri dishes, agar, and malt dextrose.
It seems like once you've got this tek down cloning is a no-brainer next logical step.
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Igloomis
Ranger


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: feldman114]
#26485815 - 02/14/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
feldman114 said: ...cloning is a game-changer for anyone using ms>grain.
Dumb question. What is the ms in ms>grain?
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MushkingMulah360
Amateur Mycologist


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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis] 1
#26485896 - 02/14/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Multi spore
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Sir Pentinite
Stranger all the time.

Registered: 05/15/19
Posts: 525
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26486024 - 02/14/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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And it's called that because unless you have some specialized equipment, knowledge, and experience, you won't be working with a individual spores.
Quote:
Igloomis said:
It seems like one syringe can go a long way since you're expanding the mycelium via the agar surface, right?
Yep. After the first harvest you can start making spore prints and ditch the syringes altogether. It would be like collecting zucchini seeds from your own garden if one zucchini produced 10 year's worth of seeds.
Quote:
In general, how many petri dishes would you recommend preparing
500mL of prepped agar is enough for 20 or 25 petris (I forget how many are in a sleeve) of the 100x10mm size. I prefer to pour a whole sleeve and store the plates instead of trying to remelt unused agar.
Quote:
and how many CCs of spore solution from a syringe per dish?
One drop per plate is usually the easiest to do although it takes a lot less than that to get growth.
Quote:
Start with one or multiple parallel dishes?
Start with at least several in case there are few that either don't germinate or just grow mold or slime.
Quote:
And how many generations from the first dish are typical before all contaminants are eliminated?
That depends on how clean it was to begin with and how good your technique is. I'd say expect three transfers (four plates) at minimum.
Quote:
You can slice the mycelium-bearing agar with a sterile scalpel and drop it directly into the sterilized spawn jars, right?
Yes, a clean plate can be used to inoculate several jars. A clean jar can be used to inoculate several more jars via grain-to-grain (G2G) transfer.
Quote:
It seems like once you've got this tek down cloning is a no-brainer next logical step.
Exactly!
-------------------- "I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'" - Terrence McKenna
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Igloomis
Ranger


Registered: 07/01/18
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You guys are awesome. Thank you so much!
It sounds like I need a serious change-up of my tek.
There is so MUCH info on this forum, will someone please direct me to a complete and updated step-by-step tek write-up?
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis] 1
#26486052 - 02/14/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here is a great list of teks, you can follow the "Easy AF" series end to end:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24297804
If you are asking about agar specifically the link on that page is great, there are multiple great agar teks, but here is one: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023
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feldman114
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26486151 - 02/14/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Igloomis said:
Quote:
InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:
What do you think is the likelihood of impurity in such a source?
This is biology, not chemistry. Spores are inherently contaminated. That is why agar is crucial, whether from print or syringe, it allows you to isolate clean growth before progressing.
I'm going to do this soon.
It seems like one syringe can go a long way since you're expanding the mycelium via the agar surface, right? In general, how many petri dishes would you recommend preparing, and how many CCs of spore solution from a syringe per dish? Start with one or multiple parallel dishes? And how many generations from the first dish are typical before all contaminants are eliminated?
You can slice the mycelium-bearing agar with a sterile scalpel and drop it directly into the sterilized spawn jars, right?
I already have sterile petri dishes, agar, and malt dextrose.
It seems like once you've got this tek down cloning is a no-brainer next logical step.
You can probably make 100 plates from 10cc of solution if you wanted. To inoculate, either put one drop of solution on the plate and streak - in a zigzag pattern using an inoculation loop - or, drip 2-3 drops on a sterilized q-tip and swab the agar surface.
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Igloomis
Ranger


Registered: 07/01/18
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said: Here is a great list of teks, you can follow the "Easy AF" series end to end:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24297804
If you are asking about agar specifically the link on that page is great, there are multiple great agar teks, but here is one: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023
Thanks, ID. What about something more involved? I have a pressure cooker, monotubs, SAB, etc. Just need to get up to date with the latest procedures and materials.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26486644 - 02/15/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Follow that first link, it is a list of links, and cover everything you mentioned. There is a guide just for how to PC. There is one just for setting up a SAB. There are ones for the agar step, the spawn step, the bulk step. It is end to end.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Loc: Milky way
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You can't sterilize with disinfectant you can only disinfect/sanitize with disinfectants. you can not sterilize a SAB.
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Igloomis
Ranger



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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: bodhisatta] 2
#26507104 - 02/27/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just a quick followup.
I dumped the tub with purchased pre-made bulk. It stalled and never recovered.
I soaked the other tub and I have a second flush but it's dribbling in gradually. I've harvested about 20g over several days, about a handful ripening each day. Weird.
I just picked up a 50 bag of oats and some new tubs, and I'm doing my first agar culture this weekend, so see y'all in the UnBodified Tub thread soon!
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: Igloomis]
#26507145 - 02/27/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Igloomis
Ranger



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Re: Very frustrated. Please advise [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26507935 - 02/28/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks ISUFOs! I have since read several of those front to back. I read Bod's entire threads on the oats and unmodified tub Teks and that's what I'm doing now.
I apologize for starting a thread like this before I realized there are other good places to plug into existing conversations, but I really appreciate the great advice and encouragement.
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