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napoleon
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Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency?
#26480757 - 02/11/20 05:57 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Does steeping powdered mushrooms in boiled water for 20 minutes pull out all the actives or do I need to lemon tek the rest of that shit if I don't want to waste any? Also does tea affect the duration/intensity of the trip/peak?
Also I just picked up another half O of transekis for super cheap (50 dollars since my dealer is trying to move them to buy some golden teachers)
Last time I did them I took 4 grams and I felt bunk shit. Just a mild trip during the peak. I don't even know if that was from the mushrooms or all the joints I was smoking
I'm thinking I'm going to do 6 grams and hope the tea will make the trip more potent?
My dealer says the transekis just have a more intense body high and less intense psychedelic mental aspect which seems like bullshit to me considering it all breaks down into psilocin and psilocin is psilocin is psilocin.
I try to pinch them to see if they go blue but I don't see any blue.
Is it possible this batch is just dead in potency?
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azramb
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: napoleon]
#26480772 - 02/11/20 06:03 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yeah probably just a weak batch. Or he sold you a weak species like panaeolus Cinctulus and just told you it was transekis.
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napoleon
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: azramb]
#26480779 - 02/11/20 06:07 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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I'll post some pictures in the ID forum
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Shr00mEater
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: napoleon]
#26480789 - 02/11/20 06:15 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Boil the shrooms, the heat won’t hurt. Toss em into a pot with water, bring to boil and hold for 10 mins, drop to simmer for another 10, Strain and sip. Lemon optional. If that sounds too boring or gross, don’t worry, I am I’m sure someone will come along with an actual good recipe for tea.
Tea hits faster. It does feels more intense that way to me. I also feel that it does comedown a bit sooner that eating them.
If they are dried shrooms, pinching won’t turn them blue.
How did you consume them the last time? I think you should try 4g again but, then again, a 50 dollar ounce does sound like ol’ boy might now they are weak.
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napoleon
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: Shr00mEater]
#26480800 - 02/11/20 06:21 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Last time I grinded them into gelcaps. 2 hours later felt jack shit.
I was just going to grind them up and put them into 2 teabags and steep that teabag in a mug of water that came to a boil, and let it steep for 20 minutes.
And it was 50 for a half O. He gave me a deal close to cost since I told him the last two times I did these I hardly felt anything so his supplier reccommended I just try higher dosages so my guy cut me a deal until his supplier is able to sell teachers and penis envies
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Shr00mEater
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: napoleon]
#26480815 - 02/11/20 06:32 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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4g should have done the trick.
Are you on any medications?
Did you fast at all prior to eating the capsules?
Have you tripped on shrooms successfully before?
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napoleon
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: Shr00mEater]
#26480818 - 02/11/20 06:35 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shr00mEater said: 4g should have done the trick.
Are you on any medications?
Did you fast at all prior to eating the capsules?
Have you tripped on shrooms successfully before?
Quote:
Shr00mEater said: 4g should have done the trick.
Are you on any medications?
Did you fast at all prior to eating the capsules?
Have you tripped on shrooms successfully before?
Ya I trip a lot. I was on SSRIs stopped using them in november so I can start tripping again (had a 4 year break from mushrooms) december I tripped a ton on APES and golden teachers. Dealer ran out of apes and golden teachers so I had to switch to these until his supplier regrew stock.
As far as fasting goes, about 4-5 hours earlier I had a very small amount of calimari which is not a full fast, but by then should have no effects on my trip
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Shr00mEater
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: napoleon]
#26481090 - 02/11/20 09:08 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Those are the variables I could think of, must be very weak shrooms then.
6g down the hatch!
 
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Ram the shroomer

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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: Shr00mEater]
#26481140 - 02/11/20 09:41 PM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Weak batch. If you got a weak batch, then you shouldn’t be to worried about a higher dose.
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LeteciMedvedic
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: Ram the shroomer]
#26481341 - 02/12/20 01:56 AM (4 years, 4 days ago) |
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Once i found a big fucking shroom in my jacket that ws in closet from last winter (year ago), put it in the tea and drinked it, triped my balls out ... If you are making tea, don't forget the Lemon
I always drink tea, the kick in is instant, it always lasts the same: 2.5 hours of insane triping and then 2.5 hours of mild triping, end ...
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WhoRunsWhere
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: LeteciMedvedic]
#26481463 - 02/12/20 06:36 AM (4 years, 4 days ago) |
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I'm new at this.. I'm assuming the lemon is for the citrus and has the same effect as OJ in that it makes the actives kick in faster?
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napoleon
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: WhoRunsWhere]
#26481609 - 02/12/20 08:57 AM (4 years, 4 days ago) |
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Succes! Making a tea with 6 grams gave me a trip of about intensity of that of eating an eigth I believe. Could be way off, but I just had a good trip none the less.
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LeteciMedvedic
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: WhoRunsWhere]
#26483706 - 02/13/20 01:08 PM (4 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
WhoRunsWhere said: I'm new at this.. I'm assuming the lemon is for the citrus and has the same effect as OJ in that it makes the actives kick in faster?
I found this with easy 5 sec search "why lemon" <3
Quote:
Quote: I've discovered several things about the major liquids observed:
1...Lemon Juice and 5% Ascorbic acid contain a LOT of ions and are in fact almost isosmotic, meaning isotonic with physiological saline. 5.52% Citric acid solution is isosmotic, Lemon juice contains 5-8%. A 5% ascorbic acid solution gave strong potentiation, while a 5.94% solution is isosmotic.
2...Dimethyltryptamines such as those of mushrooms are poorly watersoluble weak bases. The fruit acids are weak acids. Weak acids with weak bases give weak salt bonds. The way to decrease dissociation is to strongly lower the pH, as seen in the DMT extraction where the pH has to be driven far to either side for effective extraction.
3...Citric acid and Ascorbic acid form highly watersoluble salts that are well absorbed by the stomach, our primary location for absorption of watersolubles. Phosphoric acid (Psilocybin and cola drinks) forms highly watersoluble salts too, but phosphoric acid salts are very poorly absorbed: Disodium Phosphate for instance is in fact used in half-ounce doses as a nonabsorbable laxative without significantly raising serum sodium.
4...The stomach is best at dissolving watersolubles from an Isotonic/isosmotic solution, hence the isotonic sports drinks, and longer fasts increase the rapidity with which nutrients will be absorbed.
Sooo.. if you combine all this then you see that the most rapid absorption (and thus highest peak concentrations at the receptors) takes place from a near-isotonic solution that contains as much carboxylic acidity as possible, preferably as acidic as undiluted stomach juice and in small volume, which produces highly watersoluble and swiftly absorbable salts..
When 1.5gr Ascorbic acid was made into a 30ml solution and the mushrooms were soaked in there for 15min, the solution was near ideal: almost isotonic, small volume, pH 2. When it was taken on morning's empty stomach the stomach was best prepared for it too, being eager to take in nutrients because of a 10 hour fast. The results ought to be very impressive. And they were: approximately 5x potentiation, about the highest potentiation reported.
This explains the Ascorbic acid results (best at 5%, still good at 1.2%), it explains why Lemon juice would be effective in many cases and why Deficitism's acidic lemonade worked out. The solution has to be:
--Close to isotonic/isosmotic --Very acidic --Small in volume --Soaked for approx 15 minutes
and it has to land on an empty stomach that has preferably not seen food or drink for hours.
1-2 fluid ounce of Cranberry or Lemon/Lime juice are the closest readily available solutions, 5.94% Ascorbic acid or 5.52% Citric acid or 3.9% Tartaric acid in demineralized/destilled water would be optimal.
I think I got it pretty much nailed with this one!
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DJ Ed
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: LeteciMedvedic]
#26483853 - 02/13/20 02:40 PM (4 years, 3 days ago) |
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Wow I’ve just had a thought. Maybe not all potency is down to variability from multi spore. Maybe it is also down to the citric acid ratio of your tea? The quote talks about 5x potentiation if you get 5.9% citric acid. So last week I had 3.8g B+ that seriously felt like 15g. I started with a lot of lemon and a lot of boiling water, and boiled it down to about 50ml. First time in years I’ve had to text my wife to come home.......
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26486333 - 02/14/20 11:45 PM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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IME citric acid is best at about 2% the mass of the fresh fruits (the way I make tea). Beyond that it just gets more acidic but the result isn't any more efficient - because all the actives are extracted at the 2% level...
The most I've taken at one time is 250 g fresh with full tolerance, which would have been made up with 5 g of citric acid in the tea prep and yielded about 125 cc of tea, give or take. Some of that would most likely stay in the spent fruits though. 
Usually a dose would be like 50 g and 1 g citric acid as a 25 g shot.
See the experiments logged somewhere in here.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (02/14/20 11:51 PM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26486397 - 02/15/20 01:21 AM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: IME citric acid is best at about 2% the mass of the fresh fruits (the way I make tea). Beyond that it just gets more acidic but the result isn't any more efficient - because all the actives are extracted at the 2% level...
The most I've taken at one time is 250 g fresh with full tolerance, which would have been made up with 5 g of citric acid in the tea prep and yielded about 125 cc of tea, give or take. Some of that would most likely stay in the spent fruits though. 
Usually a dose would be like 50 g and 1 g citric acid as a 25 g shot.
See the experiments logged somewhere in here.
Thank you for the links, PrimalSoup. I’ve got a few questions for you!
(First, I can’t se the picture titles, but they’re pretty self-explanatory)
- I boil / simmer for 20 minutes and a lot of water boils off. I note you boil for a minute, then steep for 20 mins with the lid on the pan. Is that correct?
- I note you use citric acid; I use lemon juice. Any thoughts on citric acid content of LJ? Or do I need to exercise some grey cells?
- When you say “steep”, does that mean you’ve turned the heat off?
- I note you use fresh mushrooms; I use dry. So presumably the amount of water you need for dry is a) a lot more water than for fresh, and b) pretty much a trial and error how much water you need?
- Final question; you freeze the tea. So presumably you know the Doseage per ml of finished tea? Presumably you need to defrost the frozen tea to extract a small volume. Does repeated thawing and freezing affect the tea over time?
Many thanks for your links, and looking forward to your answers 👍🏻
❤️ DJ Ed
p.s. After being bitch-slapped by a super strong 3.8g last week, I felt the need to still trip last night so took my smallest ever dose: 2.5g dry B+. The come up was really intense again, and I thought here we go again! But then it levelled off Nd I had a really enjoyable trip. Obviously nowhere near 3.8g and above, but still very enjoyable. It felt more “recreational” than usual, and ......easier! At one point I was telling the fractals in my garden bushes to give it a rest, and was almost laughing at how unthreatening they were for once........that could come back to bite me in a future strong trip!!!
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26486438 - 02/15/20 02:21 AM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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You can see the picture titles if you hover over the picture...probably...
Bring to boil while stirring constantly, adjust heat or pan to keep on low boil for a couple minutes. Steep as long as you feel like it, 5-10 mins is good. Leave 'em too long and it becomes disgusting. Probably you don't need to steep but it's too hot to process off the burner. 
If you use fresh just rehydrate them (add back 9x the dry weight plus the smidgen for the pan). I've done this but it isn't nearly as good as tea from fresh.
Yeah I know the concentration, because I write it down on the container:

It says it's PE from 12-30 it was made from 280g of fresh fruits and it has 158 grams of water. So if I wanted 28g fresh tea I'd pull out 16g of tea. But normally a bottle with this much would get broken down at some point into smaller containers because it doesn't like being thawed and refrozen a lot. When you thaw it get it hot and shake the fuck out of it to remix everything, then parcel it out into whatever. You don't have to write down the weight/volume of the tea because you can always determine it again later. I was just making it easier here. 
I use citric acid because it keeps forever (dry powder), it's cheap, can easily be weighed on the scale and added to the fresh shrooms in the right % every time. But it's the main acid in lemon juice so I suppose that would work just as well.
The main benefit of citric acid is to get the psilocin extracted into a small amount of water. If you use a lot of water it doesn't much matter. If you use dry it doesn't much matter because they've already lost psilocin due to drying. If you're cooking woodlovers it doesn't matter because they haven't got much psilocin in the first place. It's only good for cubes.
What you want to compare is the experience from eating fresh shrooms with eating dry and how long they take to hit and how they feel. The psilocin from fresh goes straight to the bloodstream and the brain (half hour for eating, 10-15 min for tea). In either case the psilocybin has to be dephosphorylzed by the liver into psilocin before it becomes active. None of these prep methods actually convert psilocybin into psilocin unless the brew is down around pH 1.5-3 (the stomach's level) SFAIK, if even then (see below).
But the convincing demo is in the difference in potency of tea made with scant water and citric acid (like I'm showing) vs the potency of tea made with just scant water (all from fresh). That was clear as day vs night and what convinced me of two things - (1) it's bringing the psilocin by extracting it into the tea which adds potency because (2) the trip is stronger and just as long with acidic tea (when you factor in the shorter comeup). Again - if you boil fresh shrooms into a pint of straight water for 20 minutes (the old standard way) and consume it all you'll get about the same result even with cubes because psilocin IS marginally soluble in straight water. Potentiation also comes with acidification, for different reasons (see below).
Let me be clear - if you eat the fresh fruits your body will eventually extract the actives. But the nausea for me is a problem, and beyond some amount (like 10g I don't want to keep eating them unless I'm high). With tea there's no nausea from the eating, no matter the dose (up to 250g fresh with full tolerance). Hence I make tea, always have done so. I found that adding some citric acid makes the tea from fresh more potent and shortens the comeup even more than from eating - while not being so acidic as to cause its own nausea (yeah I get that). I found foundation for all this in the article "Measure of the Mushroom" that I cited in the tea tek which shows the solubilities of the actives. I've never had reason yet over many hundreds of trips to seek a different approach, so I really care fuck-all about the nay-sayers. 
But I seem to have posted - and forgotten - this about 3 years ago in this thread:
Quote:
Actually lemon tek or any acidfication DOES add potency. Big surprise there, hmm. It works by improving the % of actives that are absorbed through the stomach and gut, which without modification in studies is only about 50%, with the rest being excreted without ever being used, through studies. Sorry don't have the references handy but I posted about it recently.
Which does explain why acidification is useful, but not for the reasons people think. OTOH I've heard the claim countless times ("conversion") but have yet to find an actual study that demonstrates it does that. IE, psilocybin only in, acid soak, psilocin out. I'd welcome more information though.
that's about all there is to it - thanks because this gets to become the new acidic tea tek thread with a few tweaks.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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DJ Ed
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26486485 - 02/15/20 03:45 AM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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First of all, thank you very much, PrimalSoup, for a thorough response. I’ve got loads to chew over now.
Yes I get the making and freezing a tea from fresh mushrooms; I’ve noticed in the past when I get my first trip from a flush, I always do it fresh, and it always comes on so much faster. Wood will be graining within ten minutes 👍🏻
But I have limited freezer space. Got myself a mini-fridge to keep all my psychoactives out of the house and away from children’s curiosity! So freezing is out. Might have to freeze some small containers of fresh tea, so they can fit in.
Since I added lemon juice 4 years ago, I have never gone back to normal tea. The trip is so much CLEANER.
I also tend not to steep, or to bring up to the boil. I crush the dried mushrooms and soak in lemon. Used to use just enough lemon to get the powder wet. Last few trips I have used a lot more lemon (see below) and water, and maybe coincidence (I’m at the end of my B+ stash so the small mushrooms are already strong), but the last couple of trips, relative to the dose I have taken, have been SUPER STRONG!
But yeah on the large amount of initial liquid: as soon as the mushrooms are soaked in lemon, I pour on ALREADY BOILING water, then simmer for 20 minutes. However gently or rapidly I simmer, the water always really boils down to minimal volume. In fact I have to be vigilant because I have completely boiled it off in the past. I’m considering for my next tea to simmer with a lid on the pan, to stop the water evaporating off........
Again, thank you. Much love, DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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PrimalSoup
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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26486926 - 02/15/20 11:28 AM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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I boiled a batch of tea stone dry one time. One time only. God the stink... After that I stopped trying to reduce it and just started with less water.
You don't need much freezer space. I've had thousands of grams fresh weight stored in no more than a kilogram of liquid, less than a loaf of bread. And you can label it creatively if you need.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Ram the shroomer

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Re: Does tea pull out all the actives? And can a batch be dead in potency? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26487624 - 02/15/20 08:50 PM (4 years, 1 day ago) |
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I know the bluing fades away when whole or chopped shrooms are boiled. I know it is because of oxidation, but could it also mean that the psilocybin has all been drained when the bluing goes away? Eating the left over shroom matter hasn’t done much for me and I usually don’t
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