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 Pinkerton
Koanist
Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,324
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 People don't know what is best for themselves. 
#26473884 - 02/07/20 12:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Think about the bazillion choices you have in every aspect of your life, do you really think you've made the best possible choice even once?
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Pinkerton
Koanist
Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,324
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 Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Pinkerton]
#26473906 - 02/07/20 12:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you have the choice between job X and job Y, you feel job X is better for you thus you pick job X. At your first day, your colleague say something rude to you cuz he/she feels competition, and now you don't like each other. If you picked job Y, you may find the love of your life on your first day.
D'ya get it?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Pinkerton]
#26475041 - 02/08/20 07:19 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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we choose based upon what we see, not on future history.
nobody going to judge you for not knowing the future
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 Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: redgreenvines]
#26475161 - 02/08/20 09:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pinkerton said:
Think about the bazillion choices you have in every aspect of your life, do you really think you've made the best possible choice even once?
Yeah there are a lot of possibilities in life but "best" is a subjective measure of one's own life and this is likely more indicative of your personal assessment of decision making than some universal truth.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Pinkerton]
#26475188 - 02/08/20 09:23 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pinkerton said:
If you have the choice between job X and job Y, you feel job X is better for you thus you pick job X. At your first day, your colleague say something rude to you cuz he/she feels competition, and now you don't like each other. If you picked job Y, you may find the love of your life on your first day.
D'ya get it?
There's another type of ignorance where a person knows what the outcomes will likely be but still doesn't know what is best. We never truly know what is best but we can know the quality of a decision by the outcome. And there are all the psychological issues that cause people to make bad choices (thinking they are best) and avoid good choices (thinking they are bad).
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Rahz]
#26475198 - 02/08/20 09:31 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah one could attempt to scale decision making qualitatively. But this assumes one can come to an agreed upon basis for the quality of a decision.
What timeline is appropriate to accurately assess the effects of a decision?
How do you isolate out external factors?
What scenarios are similar enough to have a basis for assessing multiple individuals decisions and the impacts of these decisions?
Who decides the benefit/conequence of the decision? The person making the decision or the person observing?
Does the decision makers emotional response play a role?
Does impact on others play a role? How far out do you cast this net? What metric is measuring impact?
And on and on and on and on
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Kickle]
#26476048 - 02/08/20 07:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea, it's complicated.
Not knowing what is best results in the world we have.
There's a saying that seems relevant to this thread. Humans are not as smart as they think they are and too smart for their own good. Trial and error is where it's at. That and for the wise, watching other people make mistakes. I've never been very wise in that regard.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Pinkerton] 1
#26476071 - 02/08/20 07:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's no alternative. No one else knows what's best for people either. Anyone claiming to either has a massive ego or something to sell, or they're trying to get something out of the person whether emotional or monetary or otherwise.
Also, there would be no freedom if people couldn't choose what to do for themselves. That's like one of the core founding principals of real freedom is people being allowed to decide what to do for themselves in their own lives.
In many situations, there are no "best" outcomes, or "best" choices, just different outcomes and different choices.
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,175
Loc: USA 
Last seen: 5 days, 21 hours
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Rahz]
#26476219 - 02/08/20 10:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
There's another type of ignorance where a person knows what the outcomes will likely be but still doesn't know what is best. We never truly know what is best but we can know the quality of a decision by the outcome.
So often we observe other people's choices and decide they are "out of control" of their actions instead of realizing they are very aware of the negative outcomes, but they perceive more benefits engaging in the behavior than not. For example, we see someone who gets drunk every night and we decide they are "out of control" instead of accepting the fact they are very aware of the negative consequences, and give the positives of getting drunk more weight. Same can be said of all behaviors that cause self-harm. Including binge eating, mass shooting followed by suicide, etc.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26476635 - 02/09/20 09:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just because one knows the outcome doesn't mean they aren't out of control, or experiencing cognitive dissonance. But yea, there are exceptions for sure. And control is another complication. Maybe just an illusion. If there's a metric for best, perhaps it would be suffering. Some have said suffering is needed, therefore everything is best. Or perhaps the concept of need is an illusion. Empty desires. There's also the idea that everyone is doing the best they can.
What, me worry?
Yes, me worry!
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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The Mindful Mage
Friend of the Cosmos
Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 9
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Rahz] 1
#26476785 - 02/09/20 10:54 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is the perspective that we always make the best choice possible in each moment, given our knowledge at the time.
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What you seek, is seeking you.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,334
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: The Mindful Mage]
#26476870 - 02/09/20 12:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea, if we're doing the best we can, we always make the best choice possible. Everything else is wishful thinking.
But hindsight is 20/20. Regret and the concept of making better choices is a thing.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Re: People don't know what is best for themselves. [Re: Rahz]
#26479469 - 02/11/20 01:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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an old favorite:
Maybe (Taoist story)
There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.
"Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.
"Maybe," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.
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