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OfflineDurgin
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Muda Bottles FTW! * 3
    #26479402 - 02/10/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Some Muda bottle tek-inspired bottles almost ready for harvest:



These are pint-size zip-lock pp5 bottles, inoculated with a PF Classic clone LC. For 8 pint jars, the recipe (not any specific tek -my own mix):

  • 2 quarts straw
  • 2 quarts black kow manure compost
  • 1/4 cup gypsum
  • 1/2 cup dried spent coffee grounds
  • 1/4 cup oat bran
  • 1/4 cup uncooked rice


All ingredients were mixed, hydrated to field capacity, and PC'd at 15 psi for 2 hours. After full colonization, these were cased with pasteurized Jiffy mix and fruited with the lids removed in a modified SGFC with a miniature ultrasonic humidifier.


Edited by Durgin (02/10/20 11:18 PM)


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26479414 - 02/10/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Also note that these are first flush fruits and growing as large or larger than the fruits I got from a standard shoebox spawned 1:2 with colonized wheat and CVG using the same clone (which gave 18g dried from one quart of spawn and another 14g from the second flush). Haven't harvested yet, but from the looks of it this is a very solid biological efficiency given the recipe.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26479429 - 02/10/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nice grow dude:cool:


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Ryzo]
    #26479436 - 02/11/20 12:07 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks. Happy with the efficiency (even with some of the harvested fruits not yet at full size, it produced 120g wet on the equivalent of half a shoebox), but mostly just pleased about the quality of the flush No sidepins, almost no aborts, no mutants, no visible contams. I'm not going for quantity (I've flushed 10x more weight down the toilet than I've ever actually used), just quality, and these ones are really nice looking fruits.


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InvisibleSpunkyMonkey88
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26479606 - 02/11/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Good shit man, dont see many people on here working with PF classic. How do you like it? Does the potency compare to other cubes?


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26479863 - 02/11/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm a fan. Most of my growing experience is with either this, b+, or GT. Not much difference in either growing patterns or potency IME. If anything, PFC is a bit more sparse in terms of pinsets, but I actually prefer that - that way it's less likely you get a first flush canopy of 1.5" fruits that are a pain in the ass to harvest and dry. I much prefer a smaller number of 3-5" fruits, even if yields are a little less.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26480924 - 02/11/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Congratulations and nice flush.  Ive never been a fan of bottle grows not even back in 1980 when everyone was growing them that way.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: eatyualive]
    #26480996 - 02/11/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

NIce flush.. 

  Eat what are you pushing 65 now days? I remember sharing grows with you when I was 23ish...


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: eatyualive]
    #26481104 - 02/11/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Congratulations and nice flush.  Ive never been a fan of bottle grows not even back in 1980 when everyone was growing them that way.




I’m just curious eatualive, how come?

Lots of Japanese factories use the bottle method till today

What do you think about them?


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Ryzo]
    #26481145 - 02/11/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:congrats::congrats::congrats:


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OfflineLeteciMedvedic
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Nichrome]
    #26481317 - 02/12/20 01:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm realy looking forward for some time to work with plastic containers and to fruit in them, i remember I first saw this idea when some guy made a Tek with Grass seeds, fermenting them, colonising and fruiting in plasti containers... Few years ago when I was cultivating, I would usually crumble my BRF cakes into small plastic container with coir, coffee and gypsum and fruit them in SGFC... had nice quality flushes that way


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OfflinePitcherCrab
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: LeteciMedvedic]
    #26481361 - 02/12/20 02:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Looking great! Have you tried using the quart ziploc pp5 containers at all? I have started some quarts and I'm considering adding some pints to the mix. Not sure how the performance will compare.


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“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear



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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #26481530 - 02/12/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I’m super old.
Nothing against it if it works for you. But dealing with that many extra pp5s storage for me is the killer. In addition, you still have to fruit them in a tub. So for me it’s just easier putting a bulk sub in the tub. Less storage space used on the shelf from jars/pp5s. I’d likely use em if I were growing enoki. But for cubes, tubs work well.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: eatyualive]
    #26482180 - 02/12/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I can see that

Thanks for reply, you ain’t old man, you just a legend


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #26482206 - 02/12/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PitcherCrab said:
Looking great! Have you tried using the quart ziploc pp5 containers at all? I have started some quarts and I'm considering adding some pints to the mix. Not sure how the performance will compare.




I've also got some pints, but I find that they often stall out before fully colonizing. It's possible that a less-dense sub (perhaps with more LC) may work better, but if I use them at all these days, it's mainly just to fill them halfway and then fruit in vitro. I'll also sometimes fill up a bottle 1/4 of the way with grain, inoculate that with agar, then spawn 1:1 or 1:2 with coir and fruit it right in the same bottle. At that point it's like a miniaturized version of a shoebox grow.

And eat, agree with you 100% on efficiency grounds. I just don't need that much, and using bottles for small grows gives me a chance to try out a wider variety of genetics and techniques than if I committed a full shoebox or mono to every grow. It definitely isn't the way to grow bulk, and it takes more time to manage them all, but when it's just a hobby then spending time on it is kind of the point. And if I end up with a culture I really like, then I've always got plenty of shoeboxes I can spawn to - as of now, though, I don't even have anyone to give the stuff away to, so growing in any kind of quantity is a waste.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26482481 - 02/12/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I’m not as old as many think because I started young. Young at heart. Thanks. I grew out of bottles once. It’s all about doing what fun. I even do pf grows from time to time. I even side fruited a month ago..:lol:


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Edited by eatyualive (02/12/20 07:17 PM)


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: eatyualive]
    #26482540 - 02/12/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Yeah I’m super old.
Nothing against it if it works for you. But dealing with that many extra pp5s storage for me is the killer. In addition, you still have to fruit them in a tub. So for me it’s just easier putting a bulk sub in the tub. Less storage space used on the shelf from jars/pp5s. I’d likely use em if I were growing enoki. But for cubes, tubs work well.



Ok now I feel like a dick. Age is relative anyway.. we all love your grows and keep blazing the path forward for all the younglings my


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Offlinebongoman
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: LeteciMedvedic]
    #26482640 - 02/12/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LeteciMedvedic said:
i remember I first saw this idea when some guy made a Tek with Grass seeds, fermenting them, colonising and fruiting in plasti containers...




That would have been Violet's POD and In-vitro V-Tek.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: bongoman]
    #26482705 - 02/12/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

eat u alive

slayin' da OMC

since 85

YA HERD

:snoopyes:


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OfflinePitcherCrab
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26483243 - 02/13/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Durgin said:
I've also got some pints, but I find that they often stall out before fully colonizing. It's possible that a less-dense sub (perhaps with more LC) may work better, but if I use them at all these days, it's mainly just to fill them halfway and then fruit in vitro. I'll also sometimes fill up a bottle 1/4 of the way with grain, inoculate that with agar, then spawn 1:1 or 1:2 with coir and fruit it right in the same bottle. At that point it's like a miniaturized version of a shoebox grow.





Ah, interesting! That's been my experience so far as well I've got quarts going at the moment but they've stalled a bit. It's been two months and they're still not fully colonized. That was partly my fault for not shaking after inoculation, not using enough LC and putting the lid on too tight, but I'm hoping I can get them to finish up. I just started some more quarts and hope I get better results. Maybe it's time to try pints!


--------------------
PC's LAGM 2021 (TOC & TWC)
P. natalensis Growlog 2021
Pans for PC Fall 2021 Growlog

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear



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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: PitcherCrab]
    #26483320 - 02/13/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PitcherCrab said:

Ah, interesting! That's been my experience so far as well I've got quarts going at the moment but they've stalled a bit. It's been two months and they're still not fully colonized. That was partly my fault for not shaking after inoculation, not using enough LC and putting the lid on too tight, but I'm hoping I can get them to finish up. I just started some more quarts and hope I get better results. Maybe it's time to try pints!




Yeah, these four quarts are a month and a half old:



The red line is dry erase marker - I traced the progress about 10 days ago to see if they'd stalled or were just slow. Still moving, but only like 1-2mm per day. And they're too dense to shake, so that wouldn't help. I think if you're planning on needing a shake, you'd need a recipe of mostly grains rather than bulk.

I've been working on an idea for quarts that might work though. I've seen some people talk about using a dowel to press a tunnel down the middle so you can drop LC in all the way down. The trouble with that is that if you take out the dowel, it will likely close up during PC, and if you don't then removing the dowel afterward involves a lot of movement (meaning high contam risk, at least if you're using a SAB). My idea is to make a hole with a dowel / sharpie / whatever but then use something hollow that can be PC'd to create a sturdy tunnel so that you can easily get LC down to the bottom for quicker colonization.

My first try will be using these very thick-walled cardboard tubes that are at the center of my dog's poop bags. They're about 2" long and 1/4" wide, so should let me dump LC into the exact middle of the bottle. They're thick enough that I think they'll stay solid, but if not, my next option will be centrifuge tubes with the narrow end cut off. I got a pack of 100 for slant making, but won't use nearly that many in the foreseeable future, and anyway they're cheap and should even be reusable if you're willing to clean them after. And as an added bonus, they're wide enough (I think 15mm) that you could potentially even use colonized grain for inoculation rather than LC.

(In that case I'd probably just make up GLI instead, but I know some people just really hate working with liquids, and this would allow for bottle grows without LC/LI or a separate bulk spawning.)

Waiting for some of my current grows to finish before making up some new bottles this way, but if it works out I'll definitely document and share with the group.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin] * 1
    #26483333 - 02/13/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Paper straws my guy

Stick them in the middle, PC, and pour

:cool:


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Ryzo]
    #26483335 - 02/13/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ryzo said:
Paper straws my guy

Stick them in the middle, PC, and pour

:cool:



They hold up? I thought of those but assumed that if they can't stay in one piece for the time it takes to drink a glass of water, they'd surely fall apart during a PC cycle. Was going to keep an eye out for bamboo straws, since those would probably hold up better, and they're thinner so I could potentially spread 3 or 4 around the bottle for even quicker colonization.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26483355 - 02/13/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Nah they’re good dude

Prep your pp5 and slide em down center

Don’t even need the whole straw either I cut mine in half and let the LC do it’s thang straight center

Not sure which you’ve seen but the paper ones I’ve used are hard as cardboard


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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Ryzo]
    #26483454 - 02/13/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If you’re gonna pc them anyways why not make a tunnel of grain? Large grains like oats or wheat would allow the lc to flow past and make a great jump off point for the mycelium to colonize the rest of the bottle from.


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: AyePlus]
    #26483474 - 02/13/20 10:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
If you’re gonna pc them anyways why not make a tunnel of grain? Large grains like oats or wheat would allow the lc to flow past and make a great jump off point for the mycelium to colonize the rest of the bottle from.



Where's that "mind blown" gif when you need it? Though I would think wheat might absorb a bit too much. Would actually try popcorn for this. I only typically use it for growing stones (as many others have noted, it takes longer to prep and has fewer inoculation points, but for stones the results are way better IME), but in this case, I think it would probably hold the space open better than smaller grains.


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OfflineRyzo
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: AyePlus]
    #26483822 - 02/13/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
If you’re gonna pc them anyways why not make a tunnel of grain? Large grains like oats or wheat would allow the lc to flow past and make a great jump off point for the mycelium to colonize the rest of the bottle from.




See this right here is where the pros come in better

Bruh that’s genius


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InvisibleDrboomer
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Ryzo]
    #26484006 - 02/13/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So the tunnel of corn in the.center would be to keep the sub loose for shaking or just.to let the LI flow through more evenly to colonize the bottom?


I like shoeboxes alot but I can see using this with a pint of pan cake in a quart screw top. I've always wanted to try pans this may be the tek.


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Drboomer]
    #26485573 - 02/14/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Just to let the LI flow.

Re: pans, I've got some of these pint bottles colonizing now, but I'd be reluctant to try it with quarts. Pans need more FAE than cubes, so fruiting in vitro probably wouldn't give great results. Might work, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Given how much lower the weights from pans are to begin with, I'd hate to go through all that work and wind up with like half a dry gram.


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Durgin]
    #26485611 - 02/14/20 02:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Durgin, late to the party here, but I'm doing a round of pans in the quart size jars instead of bags for the next round.
I figure one quart will colonize better that 3 stuffed in a bag. But I'll dump out the quarts and fruit from a tray just
like usual.

I don't think you would have much success fruiting directly out of those quarts bc the stuff on the bottom would choke out.
Like you said, they'll need some air after 5-7 days.


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OfflineDurgin
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Re: Muda Bottles FTW! [Re: Asura]
    #26485703 - 02/14/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Was actually thinking of trying the same thing once I free up some more quarts. Right now I have 7 of them (+ 2 pints) full of hpoo/straw/verm (Jake's recipe) that I'm in the middle of pasteurizing, and when the quarts of grain I noc'd up a couple days ago are finished and I can spawn, I may try your tek in quarts with an LC I just started. But first need to see if my improvised FC will be good enough to get a half-decent yield, or if I'll need to build out a full GH tub like Jake's. (Not really aiming for canopies like you and Jake get and would happily settle for half that, so will see how close I can get with what I already have on hand.)


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