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OfflineDoyledozo
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26476887 - 02/09/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

This is so interesting. My questions came from a situation im in currently. Have a ksss print I got from one source then saw someone selling swabs from the squat mutants. If the spores from a clone are MS again I should expect similar results from both sources correct?  I suppose what Im really trying to learn is how certain phenos are isolated and stabilized. Intensive "blind" agar work growing out different sectors until the correct one is isolated?


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Offlineunibrowscowl
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26476914 - 02/09/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I think most people with a true isolate would still get varying performance and some people wouldn't.




This answers so many questions I've had.  Thank you.


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: BlueTryptoYoshi]
    #26476921 - 02/09/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

its a really interesting question for us noobs yoshi, id assume the answer has to do with what happens when you clone a piece of tissue, i think were confused about the multiple strain part, i mean i still dont know what is happening when you clone a mushroom are we extracting mycelium or dna or both? is it the dna thats programmed to grow mycelium? if the tissue is mycelium IT WOULD contain multiple strains, but i dont think that sounds right. Also think about this couldn't i just take two spores to create a single strain? instead of making an innumerable amount of transfers. It seems to me you make two choices, select for the body type via cloning or select for mycelium via isolation. See i want to say id prefer to clone but neither way seems like its more proficient than the other, i could clone get spores than get shit genetics for the fruits, or i could isolate and get both great mycelium and great fruit bodies until i cloned took spores and got shit genetics. The other question is whether or not all of the possible dna of a single mushroom is allotted between every spore. Thats really the million dollar question


Edited by Backbone (02/09/20 01:49 PM)


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26476939 - 02/09/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

There are no guarantees in mycology or any other science.


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Nichrome]
    #26477051 - 02/09/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

ok so i think my longs ass posts came from a simple lack of knowledge that i wouldn't have known if someone hadn't posted a diagram on here so this is what i gather. Two spores containing less dna then the parent(s) interact to form mycelium which interacts with the mycelium from two other spores to produce a fruit body and a clone is exactly that, the same exact genetic information as the parent, not including any genetic mutations. Or do the spores have the same amount of dna but how the f would that work for ms syringes which are made from prints because all the fruits would look the same? lmaoooooooooooo :thumbup: im not drunk i promise


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OfflineBlueTryptoYoshi
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26477117 - 02/09/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

They explained it like 4 times.
A single spore can make mycelium. (Monokaryotic)
This mycelium cannot fruit by itself.
It interacts with other compatable Monokaryotic then it becomes dikaryotic. This is now a single strain culture. This can fruit. It can also interact and create more strains within a single culture.

I think spores are always just spores. Carrying unknown genetics. Pretty sure.


I learned a lot in this thread.
I'm not really confused about anything, rather than just learning. I spend most of my days researching. I get a lot of down time at work and enjoy learning.
I'm finished here ttyl


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Edited by BlueTryptoYoshi (02/09/20 03:38 PM)


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: BlueTryptoYoshi]
    #26477126 - 02/09/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

oh yeah true


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InvisibleHans Wermhat
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26477148 - 02/09/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Each spore contains one full set genes (for example, lets say there's only four genes in the species: gene A, gene B, gene C, and gene D. each spore has one copy of each of those genes). Say two spores germinate forming two monokaryote myceliums. Monokaryote #1 contain the genes A1, B1, C1, and D1. Monokaryote #2 have genes A2, B2, C2, and D2. The two monokaryons meet, they hit it off, they fuse to become a single strain of dikaryotic mycelium.

Dikaryotic mycelium have two nuclei per cell, one from each of the parent monokaryon. So now the dikaryotic mycelium grow, each cell have two nuceli, one nucleus with gene A1, B1, C1, and D1, and the other nucelus with A2, B2, C2, and D2.

When this mycelium fruit and make spores, the two nuceli combine. And then are split (meiosis) to produce spores, each with a full set of genes. The thing is, the split won't be where every spore has either (A1, B1, C1, D1) or (A2, B2, C2, D2); some crossing over can happen and you end up with some spores that have for example A1, B2, C1, D1... or A2, B2, C1, D1... etc etc. Like a spore might get some of its genes derive from monokaryote #1 and others from monokarote #2. And now keep in mind that there's where more htan just 4 genes in a species... its more like thousands of genes. And you end up with billions of possibilities in the genetic make up of the spores, so even if you're dealing with a true single-strain isolate, no the spores will not be identical


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Hans Wermhat]
    #26477167 - 02/09/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So technically a mushroom only has two offspring just repeated? Can two spores with the same genes match up? and if two with half of the other two nuclei match up isnt that technically a clone?


Edited by Backbone (02/09/20 04:17 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26477199 - 02/09/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

No,
Yes If sexually compatible ,
A clone is strictly when you clone a mushroom


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26477202 - 02/09/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i give up


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Backbone]
    #26477205 - 02/09/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Read a basic biology introduction book. Especially the part about meiosis
Or google tetrad analysis in yeast. Mushrooms spores are much like this


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OfflineBowman
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: BlueTryptoYoshi]
    #26477274 - 02/09/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

How long can a monokaryon live/grow without encountering another monokaryon? Can a monokaryon fuse with a dikaryon?


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Bowman]
    #26477283 - 02/09/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Forever, provided the right conditions I would assume. Whether or not they fuse, they can surely exchange linear transferable gene clusters.:heart:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Bowman]
    #26477286 - 02/09/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bowman said:
How long can a monokaryon live/grow without encountering another monokaryon? Can a monokaryon fuse with a dikaryon?



Probably a very long time but maybe not. Also probably depends on species.

Probably. Sometimes different species accidentally fuse so I would say the kind of fusing your proposed is somewhere between rare to commonplace


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26477349 - 02/09/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:header:


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OfflineBowman
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26477389 - 02/09/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Re: different species accidentally fuse...(!) I have to ask, can this lead to intrageneric hybrids? Are there hybrids of Psylocybe species?


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Are all the spores from a clone the same? [Re: Bowman]
    #26477419 - 02/09/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Different species wouldn't be compatible. That's part of what makes them different species. There might be a few exception with some close relatives, but I doubt it.


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