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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Lion's Mane and Substrate
    #26419020 - 01/06/20 09:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

So I have both wheat bran and Soy pellets already in hand. I have run 80/20 hwfp/bran with OK results I think for my Lion's Mane. Would I get better results with the 50/50 hwfp/soy like with Oysters? or are they about equal for Lion's Mane? less?


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InvisibleKnownGnome
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26420797 - 01/07/20 11:02 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I don't have a definitive answer for you, but according to FreshCap Mushrooms:

Quote:

Recently, I have also had great success growing Lion’s Mane on the Master’s Mix, a 50-50 hardwood sawdust and soy hulls that has been hydrated to 60%. Yields seem to be slightly higher, and the shelf life seems to be a little better on this substrate, although some further experimentation is still needed.




I requested some research papers and I'll try to update with better information later on if I get them.

A couple snippets about substrate that piqued my interest:

Quote:

It is traditionally cultivated in Asia, mainly in China, Japan, and Malaysia, by using hardwood saw- dust as substrate. However, recent studies have shown that replacing part of the (or the entire) sawdust medium with various agricultural residues, such as sunflower seed hulls ( Figlas et al. 2007), sugarcane bagasse, rice hull and/or soybean dregs ( Hu et al. 2008), and olive pruning ( Koutrotsios et al. 2016), does not only increase productivity but also upgrades mushroom content in bioactive components like anti- oxidants, phenolics, and α-and β-glucans ( Koutrotsios et al. 2016). In general, BE values reported from various H. erinaceus cultivation substrates ranged from 31 to 70% ( Figlas et al. 2007;Ko et al. 2005;Koutrotsios et al. 2016). ...



-Zervakis, Georgios & Koutrotsios, Georgios. (2017). Solid-State Fermentation of Plant Residues and Agro-industrial Wastes for the Production of Medicinal Mushrooms. 10.1007/978-981-10-5978-0_12.

Quote:

The mycelial growth rate in substrates possessing different sunflower seed hull sizes with or without the addition of wheat bran showed that, irrespective of the presence of wheat bran, higher mycelial growth rate was observed with the larger sunflower seed hull size (as disposed of by the regional oil-seed factory without additional process).



-Figlas, Debora & González Matute, Ramiro & Curvetto, Néstor. (2007). Cultivation of Culinary-Medicinal Lion's Mane Mushroom Hericium erinaceus (Bull.: Fr.) Pers. (Aphyllophoromycetideae) on Substrate Containing Sunflower Seed Hulls. International Journal of Medicinal Mushrooms - INT J MED MUSHROOMS. 9. 67-73. 10.1615/IntJMedMushr.v9.i1.80.

Good luck man!


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: KnownGnome]
    #26420805 - 01/07/20 11:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Great information :thumbup:

:popcorn:

I may be growing this again soon but have completely forgotten what it likes for substrate!


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: Forrester]
    #26421235 - 01/07/20 02:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, So only slightly better he thinks. And looking at his recipe. He used what I did. But what I didn't do was add the 5 % gypsum which is supposed to really increase yields of Lion's Mane. I actually have some bags going now with gypsum so I will see how that goes. But that brings me to another question of whether adding gypsum to the 50/50 HWFP/Soy would also increase the already increase of just the 50/50? Or maybe based what you posted go 50/50 Sunflower Seeds/Soy Pellets or straight Soy? with Gypsum to get the most?? How much though and what would be worth it is another question of course to get what increased %

And yea when you get that info please post it here for us.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26421422 - 01/07/20 04:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It would be nice to get a clarification on the gypsum content in these substrates too. I know that the 5% is the general recommendation for sawdust blocks, but I've never really figured out if that's 5% by total substrate volume or total substrate dry weight. Also I remember reading that what was originally suggested for gypsum was way to much and RR suggested to bring it down quiet a bit to something like 3% gypsum, but I can't recall the exact numbers.

For supplementation you also have to consider how much is too much. For example it is recommended to use 20% wheat bran in sawdust, because if you supplement with too much it will apparently cause mutation in some species, like shiitake, it's something to consider.

As a comparison and example for sugar bagasse vs wheat bran and their nitrogen content, you can see that supplementing with 20% bran to 80% sawdust will give you an estimated 0.54% nitrogen (not including the sawdust nutrient content) when compared to straight sugar bagasse which would be 0.18% nitrogen, if I did the math correctly. So if straight sugar bagasse gives better yields, with less apparent nutrient content, it might be because the mushrooms are better able to decompose and metabolize the sugar bagasse vs the sawdust/bran.

*Sugar bagasse has 0.18% nitrogen
*Wheat bran has 2.70% nitrogen


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Offlinefilyep
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu] * 1
    #26421511 - 01/07/20 05:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I have seen much better yields with 50/50 soyhuls compared to 20/80 soyhulls. I'm trialing 20% wheat bran atm. 

Gypsum as far as I know is for ph buffering and added calcium. I don't think it increases yields.





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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26421922 - 01/07/20 08:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

As far as I understand it, just like BE, its dry weight.  So the bags I have running right now are 17.7 HWFP. 6 ish Bran and 1.1 Gypsum. So it's a rough 80/20/5. Or rather they will be running when I noc them up tomorrow. I do have some blocks of just HWFP/bran at 80/20 waiting on the 2nd flush. I was not happy with the weight I got, but from what I am gathering from posts on flush sizes for LM, they don't really give massive weights on first flushes anyways normally? They were not all that pretty either which made me sad. But I tell you what, I took one 7 OZ wet weight Lion's Mane cooked and ate by myself... YEEHAW !!!

But someone had suggested that he ran 10-15% bran for Lion's Mane. I have yet to try lower like that. Most everyone I have seen on here has been 20%.

So I guess my next run of bags will be 50/50 HWFP/soy then the run after  50/50/5 err... that math don't hunt right... of HWFP/soy/gypsum and see how it goes. Unless someone knows already what should happen?

And it looks like filyep hints basically don't bother trying just straight soy.

And as far as I know I can't get the sugar bagasse.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineDigitalRhizae
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26422066 - 01/07/20 09:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I was just using sugar bagasse purely as an example as it was mentioned in the study posted above as a 100% replacement and its nutritional value is mentionedin GGMM, so I could make a comparison. I also just found it interesting.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26422240 - 01/08/20 12:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I use hwfp, approx 30% soy hulls and gypsum. Spawned with about 1/2 qrt of oats. Bags are approx 6# hydrated. First individual fruit per bag is just shy of a pound.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: Quadman]
    #26422417 - 01/08/20 06:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quadman, may I assume you tried 50/50/5 hwfp/soy/gypsum and didn't get as good of results? You get bigger fruits per first flush with a little bit more spawn?

Are you doing 5% gypsum or are you lowering it to 3% like DigitalRhizae was talking about?

You said first individual fruit per bag. You only cutting 1 hole per bag? not 2? I tried 2 holes. And top fruited it, although I just figured out an easy way I think to raise the bags a bit so I can side fruit all my bags and still maximize my space, so providing I have everything I need already, I will make that change.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu] * 1
    #26423360 - 01/08/20 05:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:well I have not weighed gypsum.  1 cup to 6 bags.

I have not done 50/50.

Growing on hobby level,  I have plenty of spawn, so.......

I usually cut 2 slits on the upper edge of the top. One on each side. I just looked at the past pics and weights of first fruits.



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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: Quadman]
    #26423559 - 01/08/20 08:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

1 cup to 6 bags for 5-6# bags is definitely over 5% by a little I think. But just a guess. OK, so I will compare yields with your recipe and 50/50 and 50/50 add gypsum. Unless someone pipes in before then on what the results would be. Side note 50/50 fits less bags in the PC than hwfp/bran bags. Much puffier when it soaks up the water. grrr.

Hah I have that same scale!


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26472614 - 02/06/20 07:12 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Ok. I did a few bags of various substrate mixtures. And 50/50 Soy/HWFP definitely even with LM as discussed wins out. I have yet to weigh everything yet and a bunch of the bags contaminated because I didn't PC them long enough.. doh. And there was only 1 bag with the 50/50 but its a monster as compared to any of the bran supplimented bags. Even with added gypsum. Unfortunately all the 50/50 with gypsum contaminated so I didn't get to see those. But here are the latest pics which will be pretty obvious based on sizing.

This is the 50/50. It got put into fruiting after the others and has surpassed the others in size and speed of growth.

These are bran supplement with Gypsum. They don't really seem much better size wise than without the gypsum. but I won't really know until they finish growing.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26472947 - 02/06/20 09:48 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Wow, great looking fruits.  Nice work!

Not surprised you didn't see a noticeable difference with or without gypsum.  I've never noticed a difference either.  I think it's one of those myths RR said like 10 years ago and everyone has just parroted since.  Or maybe it's just for cubes... :lol:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineseagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: Forrester]
    #26473377 - 02/07/20 07:24 AM (4 years, 9 days ago)

Thanks.

Some other things I noticed as well is the fruits from the bran bags yellow up easier on the outer bulbous/tentacle part of the fruit way more than with the soy bag. You can't really see that with the pictures. Yes there is that brown/abort spots, but the drying yellowing doesn't really show through. With the soy bag though.. pfft white as white can be. And where the soy bag is as compared to where the bran bags are in relation to getting more moisture it should be the opposite. Maybe the bran itself is causing this?

I had been thinking the gypsum thing was odd because through the years I had always used straw and never bags until now and so never messed with sawdust or anything until now. And when I had researched gypsum what I was seeing was gypsum was really only good for keeping jars from clumping because of moisture so that they were easier to break n shake at the 30% to speed up colonization. Which it does work great at that. Hands down really helps mixing it in the grain soak that is gonna go in jars. But that it didn't really help with mushroom growth and so wasn't worth it. So I have been kerpuzzled when I was seeing all the recipes using it in bags. And after having tested both with bran bags.. I would say its not worth anything except for the jars like I mentioned, which I would never do grain jars and not use it if I didn't have to.


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: seagu]
    #26473497 - 02/07/20 09:00 AM (4 years, 9 days ago)

That's a good point about using it in grain jars, I had actually forgotten about that, and it does help :thumbup:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisiblerm1024
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Re: Lion's Mane and Substrate [Re: Forrester]
    #26490106 - 02/17/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:takingnotes:  those are some beauty specimens.  Looks like im going 50/50 too if i can find soy hulls.


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