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OfflinePsyence
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Serotonin deficiency?
    #26470714 - 02/05/20 05:05 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

I tried to post this earlier, but for some reason it did’t work. I’ll be more brief this time, so apologies for that.

I have been microdosing for 1 month on and off (0.2g-0.5g). A couple of weeks ago took a larger dose (1.5g dry but they were strong!).

Mostly this has been great (lifted mood, creative, connected to friends and family, uninhibited, fun nights out). However, after some of the doses (in the 0.5g range) I have felt brain fog, some disequilibrium (off balance), slight dizziness and a general sense of ‘lag’ - slowness of perception, not sharp. None of this has been enough to impair my ability to get on with life, but concerning. It started to become a daily feeling. I had one episode of dizziness about two hours after strenuous exercise too.

I looked on this forum and found a post in which someone suggested that a lack of serotonin might be the cause. I searched for natural serotonin boosters and as we had turmeric in the house, I took a teaspoon of that in tea. After 20 minutes the effect was dramatic - my brain fog disappeared, as did the other symptoms.

I’m not sure how psilocybin interacts with serotonin, but is it possible that it could deplete it? My experience suggests that might be the case.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Registered: 10/25/19
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26470736 - 02/05/20 05:15 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Neurotransmitters aren't effected that fast.  IF it wasn't just placebo, it is more likely that you were dehydrated and the tea helped with that.

In fact everything you described is a symptom of dehydration.


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Offlinecrabs
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26470745 - 02/05/20 05:18 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

What is your microdosing interval? 1 day on 2 off? I might argue those doses are a little on the high side for microdosing, especially if you're talking about a strong strain or species. I realized after a couple weeks that even .2 of Ps Cyan wasn't even really microdosing. Are you having any traditional psychedelic effects from these doses? Maybe try cutting the dosage down to .1g or taking a break.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26470755 - 02/05/20 05:23 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Neurotransmitters aren't effected that fast.  IF it wasn't just placebo, it is more likely that you were dehydrated and the tea helped with that.

In fact everything you described is a symptom of dehydration.




Nope. Definitely not dehydration. I’m talking about a pattern over several weeks.

And trust me, I’ve done enough of these things to know the difference between a placebo and an active substance when it’s that pronounced. This was like a strong cup of coffee in the morning.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: crabs]
    #26470767 - 02/05/20 05:28 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

crabs said:
What is your microdosing interval? 1 day on 2 off? I might argue those doses are a little on the high side for microdosing, especially if you're talking about a strong strain or species. I realized after a couple weeks that even .2 of Ps Cyan wasn't even really microdosing. Are you having any traditional psychedelic effects from these doses? Maybe try cutting the dosage down to .1g or taking a break.




Sometimes more frequent than that! Yes, the ones I have grown are apparently strong, or I am sensitive to the effects. The doses all had noticeable effects, not strong but perceivable.

For now I will stick to occasional larger doses. If I go back to microdosing I will do what you suggest and lower it. Need to get a better scale too!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineLawlight
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence] * 1
    #26470969 - 02/05/20 07:29 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Psilocin is a competitive inhibitor of several serotonin receptors, this means that it replaces the natural substrate that is serotonin in the receptors for a while. If you do microdoses several days in a row for a long time, it is normal for most of your receptors (which are other proteins) to become closer to psilocin than to serotonin. This is natural and hepigenetic selection. So your theory has enough arguments for you to stop doing microdoses for a while or forever (I'm not a fan of microdoses). Font: med school.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471119 - 02/05/20 09:07 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
I looked on this forum and found a post in which someone suggested that a lack of serotonin might be the cause. I searched for natural serotonin boosters and as we had turmeric in the house, I took a teaspoon of that in tea. After 20 minutes the effect was dramatic - my brain fog disappeared, as did the other symptoms.

I’m not sure how psilocybin interacts with serotonin, but is it possible that it could deplete it? My experience suggests that might be the case.





Placebos are strong and surprisingly (suspiciously) quick acting. :shrug:

No psilocybin doesn't deplete serotonin.  Look at the more likely suspects.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26471344 - 02/06/20 12:49 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Lawlight said:
Psilocin is a competitive inhibitor of several serotonin receptors, this means that it replaces the natural substrate that is serotonin in the receptors for a while. If you do microdoses several days in a row for a long time, it is normal for most of your receptors (which are other proteins) to become closer to psilocin than to serotonin. This is natural and hepigenetic selection. So your theory has enough arguments for you to stop doing microdoses for a while or forever (I'm not a fan of microdoses). Font: med school.




Right! That would make a lot of sense. Part of my feeling was that I regained some of my sharpness while on a low dose and the effects I’m describing were more noticeable when I was not dosing.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘hepigenetic’. I’m familiar with the term epigenetic, but that’s to do with gene expression. This would be a type of dependance.

I think I’ve also decided that I’m not a fan of microdosing, at least not so regularly.

As for the cumin, there seems to be evidence that it does indeed increase serotonin at higher doses.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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Offlinepsysearch
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471414 - 02/06/20 03:32 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Microdosing is to take sub perceptual doses i.e you notice no effects, taking an active dose such as 0.5g often isn't a good idea.


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OfflineLawlight
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471538 - 02/06/20 06:26 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Then you could use some cumin and lower the amount until you feel good again. You need much more than microdoses to permanently damage your receptors, such as having had a strong methamphetamine addiction, so your serotonin levels should recover quickly.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Lawlight]
    #26471551 - 02/06/20 06:36 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

First you said turmeric, and now cumin.  Those are two different substances.  Both are culinary spices.  While tasty and they may have subtle health benefits, they are not going to have drastic acute effects.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26471781 - 02/06/20 10:03 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
First you said turmeric, and now cumin.  Those are two different substances.  Both are culinary spices.  While tasty and they may have subtle health benefits, they are not going to have drastic acute effects.




I think it was autocorrected to cumin, but another name for turmeric is Curcumin. It’s the same thing. It’s been used in Indian medicine for a very long time. It also just happened to be what was in the house at the time.

I have no evangelical attachment to any substances, I’m just commenting and theorising on what I’ve directly observed.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



Edited by Psyence (02/06/20 10:07 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471788 - 02/06/20 10:10 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

I’m not recommending that you try this. But have you considered 5HTP? You can pick it up from health shops.

I’ve heard it mentioned on here. But I’d tried it many years ago when I was taking MDMA. My research at the time led me to believe that it’s a pre-cursor to serotonin, and therefore taking the supplement will replenish your serotonin stores more quickly. Though I’m not sure it ever worked for me; towards the end, the ecstasy low was lasting weeks.....

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26471810 - 02/06/20 10:31 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
I’m not recommending that you try this. But have you considered 5HTP? You can pick it up from health shops.

I’ve heard it mentioned on here. But I’d tried it many years ago when I was taking MDMA. My research at the time led me to believe that it’s a pre-cursor to serotonin, and therefore taking the supplement will replenish your serotonin stores more quickly. Though I’m not sure it ever worked for me; towards the end, the ecstasy low was lasting weeks.....

Mush love
DJ Ed




Yes, I got some 5-HTP complex (inc magnesium, vit B and Valerian) yesterday. I took one but did not notice any effect.

I am not sure whether I want to keep taking that as I have also read it can bad for the heart, but I will try it again if I feel foggy after shrooms.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471849 - 02/06/20 11:20 AM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Woah, I hadn’t heard that! Be careful dude


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26471975 - 02/06/20 12:38 PM (4 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Woah, I hadn’t heard that! Be careful dude




I mean, it’s sold in health food shops, so I doubt it’s very bad, but apparently excess serotonin is absorbed by the heart. I haven’t read up on it much, just something I read here on shroomery.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26472165 - 02/06/20 02:24 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Ah right yeah that sounds reasonable. In that case, I don’t think myself and yourself have to worry; we’re trying to replenish missing serotonin, so the worry of too much serotonin would actually be a blessing.

Stay safe brother, but I reckon get your serotonin levels up then report back here

❤️
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26472193 - 02/06/20 02:41 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Ah right yeah that sounds reasonable. In that case, I don’t think myself and yourself have to worry; we’re trying to replenish missing serotonin, so the worry of too much serotonin would actually be a blessing.

Stay safe brother, but I reckon get your serotonin levels up then report back here

❤️
DJ Ed





Cheers Ed!

My state has returned pretty much to normal now: no dizziness, no brain fog. All good. I'm going to lay off regular microdosing and stick to proper trips every few weeks!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26472198 - 02/06/20 02:45 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Glad to hear it pal. I’ve been on 3.8g doses at fortnightly intervals since October last year. I’m due tomorrow 👍🏻. But since the last trip, my after glow has stayed. It’s been an awesome come down to be fair. Still gonna trip tomorrow,, but think I can now back off the frequency; maybe do fewer but stronger doses 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26472247 - 02/06/20 03:13 PM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Really? That regularly? What do you feel you gain from it?

I’m trying to figure out how best to use cubensis. They’re not my favourite mushroom - I’d prefer Liberty Caps - but they’re the ones I can grow :smile:

Any tips for how to get the most from them?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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