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OfflinePsyence
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Serotonin deficiency?
    #26470714 - 02/05/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I tried to post this earlier, but for some reason it did’t work. I’ll be more brief this time, so apologies for that.

I have been microdosing for 1 month on and off (0.2g-0.5g). A couple of weeks ago took a larger dose (1.5g dry but they were strong!).

Mostly this has been great (lifted mood, creative, connected to friends and family, uninhibited, fun nights out). However, after some of the doses (in the 0.5g range) I have felt brain fog, some disequilibrium (off balance), slight dizziness and a general sense of ‘lag’ - slowness of perception, not sharp. None of this has been enough to impair my ability to get on with life, but concerning. It started to become a daily feeling. I had one episode of dizziness about two hours after strenuous exercise too.

I looked on this forum and found a post in which someone suggested that a lack of serotonin might be the cause. I searched for natural serotonin boosters and as we had turmeric in the house, I took a teaspoon of that in tea. After 20 minutes the effect was dramatic - my brain fog disappeared, as did the other symptoms.

I’m not sure how psilocybin interacts with serotonin, but is it possible that it could deplete it? My experience suggests that might be the case.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26470736 - 02/05/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Neurotransmitters aren't effected that fast.  IF it wasn't just placebo, it is more likely that you were dehydrated and the tea helped with that.

In fact everything you described is a symptom of dehydration.


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Offlinecrabs
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26470745 - 02/05/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What is your microdosing interval? 1 day on 2 off? I might argue those doses are a little on the high side for microdosing, especially if you're talking about a strong strain or species. I realized after a couple weeks that even .2 of Ps Cyan wasn't even really microdosing. Are you having any traditional psychedelic effects from these doses? Maybe try cutting the dosage down to .1g or taking a break.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26470755 - 02/05/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Neurotransmitters aren't effected that fast.  IF it wasn't just placebo, it is more likely that you were dehydrated and the tea helped with that.

In fact everything you described is a symptom of dehydration.




Nope. Definitely not dehydration. I’m talking about a pattern over several weeks.

And trust me, I’ve done enough of these things to know the difference between a placebo and an active substance when it’s that pronounced. This was like a strong cup of coffee in the morning.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: crabs]
    #26470767 - 02/05/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

crabs said:
What is your microdosing interval? 1 day on 2 off? I might argue those doses are a little on the high side for microdosing, especially if you're talking about a strong strain or species. I realized after a couple weeks that even .2 of Ps Cyan wasn't even really microdosing. Are you having any traditional psychedelic effects from these doses? Maybe try cutting the dosage down to .1g or taking a break.




Sometimes more frequent than that! Yes, the ones I have grown are apparently strong, or I am sensitive to the effects. The doses all had noticeable effects, not strong but perceivable.

For now I will stick to occasional larger doses. If I go back to microdosing I will do what you suggest and lower it. Need to get a better scale too!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineLawlight
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence] * 1
    #26470969 - 02/05/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Psilocin is a competitive inhibitor of several serotonin receptors, this means that it replaces the natural substrate that is serotonin in the receptors for a while. If you do microdoses several days in a row for a long time, it is normal for most of your receptors (which are other proteins) to become closer to psilocin than to serotonin. This is natural and hepigenetic selection. So your theory has enough arguments for you to stop doing microdoses for a while or forever (I'm not a fan of microdoses). Font: med school.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471119 - 02/05/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
I looked on this forum and found a post in which someone suggested that a lack of serotonin might be the cause. I searched for natural serotonin boosters and as we had turmeric in the house, I took a teaspoon of that in tea. After 20 minutes the effect was dramatic - my brain fog disappeared, as did the other symptoms.

I’m not sure how psilocybin interacts with serotonin, but is it possible that it could deplete it? My experience suggests that might be the case.





Placebos are strong and surprisingly (suspiciously) quick acting. :shrug:

No psilocybin doesn't deplete serotonin.  Look at the more likely suspects.


--------------------

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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26471344 - 02/06/20 12:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Lawlight said:
Psilocin is a competitive inhibitor of several serotonin receptors, this means that it replaces the natural substrate that is serotonin in the receptors for a while. If you do microdoses several days in a row for a long time, it is normal for most of your receptors (which are other proteins) to become closer to psilocin than to serotonin. This is natural and hepigenetic selection. So your theory has enough arguments for you to stop doing microdoses for a while or forever (I'm not a fan of microdoses). Font: med school.




Right! That would make a lot of sense. Part of my feeling was that I regained some of my sharpness while on a low dose and the effects I’m describing were more noticeable when I was not dosing.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘hepigenetic’. I’m familiar with the term epigenetic, but that’s to do with gene expression. This would be a type of dependance.

I think I’ve also decided that I’m not a fan of microdosing, at least not so regularly.

As for the cumin, there seems to be evidence that it does indeed increase serotonin at higher doses.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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Offlinepsysearch
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471414 - 02/06/20 03:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Microdosing is to take sub perceptual doses i.e you notice no effects, taking an active dose such as 0.5g often isn't a good idea.


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OfflineLawlight
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471538 - 02/06/20 06:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Then you could use some cumin and lower the amount until you feel good again. You need much more than microdoses to permanently damage your receptors, such as having had a strong methamphetamine addiction, so your serotonin levels should recover quickly.


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Lawlight]
    #26471551 - 02/06/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

First you said turmeric, and now cumin.  Those are two different substances.  Both are culinary spices.  While tasty and they may have subtle health benefits, they are not going to have drastic acute effects.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26471781 - 02/06/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
First you said turmeric, and now cumin.  Those are two different substances.  Both are culinary spices.  While tasty and they may have subtle health benefits, they are not going to have drastic acute effects.




I think it was autocorrected to cumin, but another name for turmeric is Curcumin. It’s the same thing. It’s been used in Indian medicine for a very long time. It also just happened to be what was in the house at the time.

I have no evangelical attachment to any substances, I’m just commenting and theorising on what I’ve directly observed.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



Edited by Psyence (02/06/20 10:07 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471788 - 02/06/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I’m not recommending that you try this. But have you considered 5HTP? You can pick it up from health shops.

I’ve heard it mentioned on here. But I’d tried it many years ago when I was taking MDMA. My research at the time led me to believe that it’s a pre-cursor to serotonin, and therefore taking the supplement will replenish your serotonin stores more quickly. Though I’m not sure it ever worked for me; towards the end, the ecstasy low was lasting weeks.....

Mush love
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26471810 - 02/06/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
I’m not recommending that you try this. But have you considered 5HTP? You can pick it up from health shops.

I’ve heard it mentioned on here. But I’d tried it many years ago when I was taking MDMA. My research at the time led me to believe that it’s a pre-cursor to serotonin, and therefore taking the supplement will replenish your serotonin stores more quickly. Though I’m not sure it ever worked for me; towards the end, the ecstasy low was lasting weeks.....

Mush love
DJ Ed




Yes, I got some 5-HTP complex (inc magnesium, vit B and Valerian) yesterday. I took one but did not notice any effect.

I am not sure whether I want to keep taking that as I have also read it can bad for the heart, but I will try it again if I feel foggy after shrooms.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26471849 - 02/06/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Woah, I hadn’t heard that! Be careful dude


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26471975 - 02/06/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Woah, I hadn’t heard that! Be careful dude




I mean, it’s sold in health food shops, so I doubt it’s very bad, but apparently excess serotonin is absorbed by the heart. I haven’t read up on it much, just something I read here on shroomery.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26472165 - 02/06/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ah right yeah that sounds reasonable. In that case, I don’t think myself and yourself have to worry; we’re trying to replenish missing serotonin, so the worry of too much serotonin would actually be a blessing.

Stay safe brother, but I reckon get your serotonin levels up then report back here

❤️
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26472193 - 02/06/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Ah right yeah that sounds reasonable. In that case, I don’t think myself and yourself have to worry; we’re trying to replenish missing serotonin, so the worry of too much serotonin would actually be a blessing.

Stay safe brother, but I reckon get your serotonin levels up then report back here

❤️
DJ Ed





Cheers Ed!

My state has returned pretty much to normal now: no dizziness, no brain fog. All good. I'm going to lay off regular microdosing and stick to proper trips every few weeks!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26472198 - 02/06/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Glad to hear it pal. I’ve been on 3.8g doses at fortnightly intervals since October last year. I’m due tomorrow 👍🏻. But since the last trip, my after glow has stayed. It’s been an awesome come down to be fair. Still gonna trip tomorrow,, but think I can now back off the frequency; maybe do fewer but stronger doses 👍🏻


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26472247 - 02/06/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Really? That regularly? What do you feel you gain from it?

I’m trying to figure out how best to use cubensis. They’re not my favourite mushroom - I’d prefer Liberty Caps - but they’re the ones I can grow :smile:

Any tips for how to get the most from them?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineLoneLobo
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26473735 - 02/07/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.

I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.

Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.


--------------------
"You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26473754 - 02/07/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You are taking way more than microdoses. So thats a factor.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26474939 - 02/08/20 03:16 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
Really? That regularly? What do you feel you gain from it?

I’m trying to figure out how best to use cubensis. They’re not my favourite mushroom - I’d prefer Liberty Caps - but they’re the ones I can grow :smile:

Any tips for how to get the most from them?



Hey Psyence, good morning.

That’s a real tough question to answer, because I frilly believe this is something you need to work out for yourself. I initially started out with infrequent but high doses, as per Terence McKenna’s advice. But the afterglow didn’t last and the intensity of the trips put me off for months.

Then in Nov 2018 I had a really effective 4.1g B+ trip, where I believe the mushrooms helped me really understand my depression. I subsequently didn’t feel depressed again or trip again for 11 months.

Oct 2019 my depressive thoughts started returning, so I decided to dose slightly lower but at more frequent intervals. This has been the most effective so far, and I do believe the depression has gone again.

But now I’m not so sure I need to trip for a while; had a really nasty experience from 3.8g B+ last night. There was something seriously wrong such that it felt more like 13.8g B+. I had to text my wife at 1.5 hours in to come home and sit with me so we could ride it out together. My thoughts this morning are that regarding my depression there’s little else the mushrooms can tell me, so a break of 6 months now feels sensible.

I could have been doing it all wrong pal, but I seem to have got where I wanted to.

I think the best advice I could give, apart from getting help here, is to listen to your body and your mind; they’re the best indicator of whether you’re overdoing it or not.

Mush love
DJ Ed

Edit: one other thing to note. Since October last year, I have been tripping completely alone. My wife has been making arrangements so I have the house and my two dogs to myself for the night. That has resulted in my trips going deeper, and being more useful. I’ve found that if there’s someone else in the house, even if upstairs and I’m downstairs, this stops me trippingnas hard because I’m always concerned what the other person is doing, thinking etc.


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



Edited by DJ Ed (02/08/20 03:37 AM)


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: LoneLobo]
    #26474951 - 02/08/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LoneLobo said:
I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.

I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.

Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.




Ah, that’s very nice to hear. Not a nice thing to experience, but good to know I’m not alone!

Do you have any thoughts about why it might happen? I thought our friend’s response above about the brain’s serotonin receptors becoming accustomed to psilocybin/psilocin instead of serotonin was really interesting. Thanks for posting.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26474955 - 02/08/20 03:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
You are taking way more than microdoses. So thats a factor.




Haha, yes. Someone else pointed that out!

There does seem to be a bit of variation in what people consider to be a microdose. Also, the things themselves vary so much in strength, don’t they? I have some Hawaiians and Albino A+ that are v. strong and some Treasure Coast that are quite weak.

Need better scales too.

Anyone know how to measure psilocybin content?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26474958 - 02/08/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks DJ Ed. That’s interesting. I generally don’t trip alone, but I might try it.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineLoneLobo
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26475359 - 02/08/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
Quote:

LoneLobo said:
I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.

I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.

Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.




Ah, that’s very nice to hear. Not a nice thing to experience, but good to know I’m not alone!

Do you have any thoughts about why it might happen? I thought our friend’s response above about the brain’s serotonin receptors becoming accustomed to psilocybin/psilocin instead of serotonin was really interesting. Thanks for posting.





I'm no doctor, but I've always believed this is the result of a lack of serotonin in the brain - not enough to carry information through the pathways. Think of your sober mind as a processing factory. Every day they spit out 10 truck fulls of information per hour. On psilocybin, the mental pathways are more open and more interconnected, so it's more like 20 or 30 truckloads per hour. Depending on the state of the brain at the time of ingestion, usually you can handle this extra workload, but if you've been using psilocybin too often, the trucks just aren't there, so you end up with back up, like a traffic jam.

Depression, negative thoughts, low energy, anxiety: these are the signs of low serotonin. A little 5htp can totally spin a bad trip in the right direction.


--------------------
"You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."


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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26492674 - 02/18/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

tea is a diuretic


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26494347 - 02/20/20 02:47 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Backbone said:
tea is a diuretic




How is that related to the discussion? :smile:


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26494985 - 02/20/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The one guy was saying the op probably just felt better because he drank and thus got hydrated


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26495825 - 02/20/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Backbone said:
The one guy was saying the op probably just felt better because he drank and thus got hydrated




Right.

I mean all those posts were totally off the mark. I just don’t get the attitude: ‘oh it can’t possibly be anything to do with the mushrooms, you must be dehydrated’. It’s such a blind spot. Just because I’m suggesting that your favourite thing might have a down side, that doesn’t mean you have to get all defensive. It’s childish.

Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.

I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.

If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496004 - 02/20/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.




Well that is false, not every substance has to have a downside.


Quote:

I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.




Eh, turmeric is not magic.  It may have a small anti-inflammatory effect but even that is debated.

Quote:

If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!




If people didn't question what others claimed then charlatans would reign supreme.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496652 - 02/21/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:

Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.




Well that is false, not every substance has to have a downside.


Quote:

I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.




Eh, turmeric is not magic.  It may have a small anti-inflammatory effect but even that is debated.

Quote:

If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!




If people didn't question what others claimed then charlatans would reign supreme.




Nothing at all wrong with questioning what other say, but I don't hear any questions... What's your question?

There are substances with no down side? Name one. Give me an example of a psychoactive substance with no down side.

Turmeric is not magic? I never claimed that it was. I said it appeared to have a very specific effect in a very specific circumstance. That's hardly claiming it cures cancer, now is it?

As for the implication that I am a charlatan, again, that's insulting. If you have nothing worthwhile to say, you have the option to say nothing.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496738 - 02/21/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

And just to be clear, when I came on this forum to discuss this, I didn’t come selling anything.

I had an experience. I did some research (on this forum) and found some useful information. I used that information and found a possible solution.

What I did next was to post here in order to confirm whether other people had experienced anything similar, to see whether they had also found a solution. I also posted in case it might be of use to anyone else.

That’s the most scientific and useful thing I could think of doing in the situation.

I didn’t post asking for the opinions of opinionated evangelists about something they have no experience of. Just because you didn’t experience a thing doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Frankly I expected more from people who are supposedly into consciousness expansion, but I guess there are no places free of ignorance!


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



Edited by Psyence (02/21/20 10:24 AM)


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496823 - 02/21/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Keep your chin up, pal. People on here generally mean well.
Sending you love, peace and good vibes
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496831 - 02/21/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I do not think you are a charlatan.  I am referring to many people happy to profit off of selling snake oils.

If turmeric makes you happy then go for it.

You don't like what I say so you call me ignorant.  And insult everyone at large on the forum based on my statements.  Whether I am ignorant or not does not mean people here have closed minds.  I can support my ignorant view with accredited published research:

The Journal of Medicinal Chemistry:

"Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate. The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases. No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead. On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed."

Chemistry: Chemical con artists foil drug discovery


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496851 - 02/21/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
I do not think you are a charlatan.  I am referring to many people happy to profit off of selling snake oils.

If turmeric makes you happy then go for it.

You don't like what I say so you call me ignorant.  And insult everyone at large on the forum based on my statements.  Whether I am ignorant or not does not mean people here have closed minds.  I can support my ignorant view with accredited published research:

The Journal of Medicinal Chemistry:

"Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate. The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases. No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead. On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed."

Chemistry: Chemical con artists foil drug discovery




You seem to be confused.

My statements refer to you and the other person attempting to tell me I was not experiencing the symptoms I was experiencing and did not experience relief from the thing that appeared to relieve them. I am calling you ignorant, yes, because to ignore or discount another person’s experience based simply on your own bias is the very definition of ignorance. If you find that insulting, then perhaps you should check your own attitude. It seems to me you are definitely on the wrong forum for a person who holds those kind of views and opinions. At the very least you must realise that you are on a hiding to nothing arguing that kind of thing, so why waste your time?

My comments are certainly not directed at anyone else, so I have no idea who else you think I am insulting.

What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?

You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.

What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing.

Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496860 - 02/21/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
Keep your chin up, pal. People on here generally mean well.
Sending you love, peace and good vibes
DJ Ed




Cheers Ed!

You too.

I can see there are good people here, just disappointing when other people weigh in with nothing worthwhile to say


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496875 - 02/21/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Your screename is a play on "science" and you are claiming your anecdotal experience is above actual scientific rigor.  I hope all the best for you and if turmeric solves your problems I am glad that your problems have been solved.  I wish you the best.  However, I don't believe that turmeric is medicine and would never suggest it to someone as a means of correcting any issues.  My view comes from the rigorous scientific evidence.

Quote:

What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?




I never said anything remotely like that.  You are just mad that I disagreed with your statement that every substance in the universe must have a negative aspect.

Quote:

You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.




I didn't bring up cumin.  I think you are confusing curcumin, which is the substance in turmeric that is being investigated.  And yes I am arguing that turmeric in general and curcumin specifically have no proven medical benefit.  And I am basing my argument off of scientific research rather than anecdotal, subjective experience.

I have nothing against turmeric, it is a delicious spice and I"m sure it has wonderful nutritious benefits.  It is good as a food.  I think it is quack medicine.

Quote:

What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing.
Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?




:bringiton: 

Um... so people don't continue to spread misinformation and hurt people's health with fake medicine.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496878 - 02/21/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
I can see there are good people here, just disappointing when other people weigh in with nothing worthwhile to say




It hurts my feelings when you insinuate that I am a bad person.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496907 - 02/21/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Your screename is a play on "science" and you are claiming your anecdotal experience is above actual scientific rigor.  I hope all the best for you and if turmeric solves your problems I am glad that your problems have been solved.  I wish you the best.  However, I don't believe that turmeric is medicine and would never suggest it to someone as a means of correcting any issues.  My view comes from the rigorous scientific evidence.

Quote:

What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?




I never said anything remotely like that.  You are just mad that I disagreed with your statement that every substance in the universe must have a negative aspect.

Quote:

You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.




I didn't bring up cumin.  I think you are confusing curcumin, which is the substance in turmeric that is being investigated.  And yes I am arguing that turmeric in general and curcumin specifically have no proven medical benefit.  And I am basing my argument off of scientific research rather than anecdotal, subjective experience.

I have nothing against turmeric, it is a delicious spice and I"m sure it has wonderful nutritious benefits.  It is good as a food.  I think it is quack medicine.

Quote:

What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing.
Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?




:bringiton: 

Um... so people don't continue to spread misinformation and hurt people's health with fake medicine.



Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Your screename is a play on "science" and you are claiming your anecdotal experience is above actual scientific rigor.  I hope all the best for you and if turmeric solves your problems I am glad that your problems have been solved.  I wish you the best.  However, I don't believe that turmeric is medicine and would never suggest it to someone as a means of correcting any issues.  My view comes from the rigorous scientific evidence.

Quote:

What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?




I never said anything remotely like that.  You are just mad that I disagreed with your statement that every substance in the universe must have a negative aspect.

Quote:

You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.




I didn't bring up cumin.  I think you are confusing curcumin, which is the substance in turmeric that is being investigated.  And yes I am arguing that turmeric in general and curcumin specifically have no proven medical benefit.  And I am basing my argument off of scientific research rather than anecdotal, subjective experience.

I have nothing against turmeric, it is a delicious spice and I"m sure it has wonderful nutritious benefits.  It is good as a food.  I think it is quack medicine.

Quote:

What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing.
Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?




:bringiton: 

Um... so people don't continue to spread misinformation and hurt people's health with fake medicine.





You really are confused, aren’t you?

Indeed, my screen name is a play on science. I believe passionately in science, as in real science. That's not about closing doors but opening them: a real scientist does not discount anecdotal evidence. They don't rely on it either. They examine it, explore it, look for more.  Just because you have not experienced something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If you understand the nature of scientific studies, you understand that they are not easy to do well, they must be highly focused with large sample groups etc etc. Any scientific study must be carefully read to be properly understood.

If you had read what I wrote more carefully, you would have seen that I did not make any hard and fast claims for anything. I simply told what I experienced. Take from that what you will, but if you start telling me I am selling snake oil, don't be surprised when I tell you where to get off.

If you're not arguing that mushrooms have no side effects, why are you stating that not every substance has a negative as well as a positive effect? What's your point? You thought I was talking about every substance in the universe? OK, perhaps I should have been really specific to avoid all possible confusion: 'Every psychoactive substance has side effects'. How about that? Do you disagree?

Sorry, yes, curcumin (turmeric). That's not the first time that confusion has happened. It's an autocorrect thing. Look, I was not particularly expecting it to have any effect when I took it. I simply had some in the house and took it in place of 5-htp as an experiment. To my surprise, it worked. I didn't recommend anyone else to do it. I'm not selling supplements.

"Um... so people don't continue to spread misinformation and hurt people's health with fake medicine."

Please. Get off your high horse. You just said yourself Turmeric is a healthy food.

:bringiton:


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496922 - 02/21/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:

Psyence said:
I can see there are good people here, just disappointing when other people weigh in with nothing worthwhile to say




It hurts my feelings when you insinuate that I am a bad person.




You stepped on my thread patronising me and telling me I’m talking shit. You think I’m going to leave with a good impression of your character?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496953 - 02/21/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You did suggest that it was the tea that made him feel hydrated, when tea is a diuretic lol Tums isnt a medicine not really but it calms your stomach. Maybe the tumeric did the same, there are serotonin receptors in the gut. I really doubt it did anything directly to any receptor though I also doubt that psylosin "replaces" serotonin receptors I dont think thats how receptors work, and the psylosin in mushrooms is a tiny amount


Edited by Backbone (02/21/20 12:58 PM)


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26496966 - 02/21/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Turmeric is a spice.  That is all.  It has no medicinal value.  I have linked scientific evidence.  You have provided nothing other than anger.

Quote:

Indeed, my screen name is a play on science. I believe passionately in science, as in real science.
That's not about closing doors but opening them: a real scientist does not discount anecdotal evidence. They don't rely on it either. They examine it, explore it, look for more.  Just because you have not experienced something doesn't mean it didn't happen.




Fallacious.  Again I have provided scientifically published data supporting my claim, and you have provided nothing. 

Quote:

If you understand the nature of scientific studies, you understand that they are not easy to do well, they must be highly focused with large sample groups etc etc. Any scientific study must be carefully read to be properly understood.




And I have provided scientific evidence conducted in the globally approved manner, and you have provided nothing.

Quote:

If you had read what I wrote more carefully, you would have seen that I did not make any hard and fast claims for anything. I simply told what I experienced. Take from that what you will, but if you start telling me I am selling snake oil, don't be surprised when I tell you where to get off.




Human suffering is real.  People want to fix their ailments.  Turmeric is not going to help anyone with anything unless they wish their food tasted better.

Quote:

If you're not arguing that mushrooms have no side effects, why are you stating that not every substance has a negative as well as a positive effect? What's your point? You thought I was talking about every substance in the universe? OK, perhaps I should have been really specific to avoid all possible confusion: 'Every psychoactive substance has side effects'. How about that? Do you disagree?




I do not, people should not use psychoactive substances without great research and intention.

Quote:

Sorry, yes, curcumin (turmeric). That's not the first time that confusion has happened. It's an autocorrect thing. Look, I was not particularly expecting it to have any effect when I took it. I simply had some in the house and took it in place of 5-htp as an experiment. To my surprise, it worked. I didn't recommend anyone else to do it. I'm not selling supplements.




I do not think you are personally trying to mislead anyone or profit nefariously in any way.  Again, there are entire industries built around doing this quite effectively.  Look it up if you doubt me.  They are selling turmeric right now as medicinal at quite a high cost.  Compare this to turmeric you can get as a spice for food.  Yet, when subjected to scientific rigor we find that turmeric is a false lead.  People were not bad or evil when they thought maybe to explore it.  And who knows?  In the future something could be found.  But right now that is not what the data shows.  And people are really sick and really suffering, and to waste their time or money with nonsense goes against the Hippocratic Oath. 

Quote:

Please. Get off your high horse. You just said yourself Turmeric is a healthy food.




I ain't got no horse.  If you can't discern the difference between food and medicine, quit giving people false information about medicine.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496985 - 02/21/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I mean all those posts were totally off the mark. I just don’t get the attitude: ‘oh it can’t possibly be anything to do with the mushrooms, you must be dehydrated’. It’s such a blind spot. Just because I’m suggesting that your favourite thing might have a down side, that doesn’t mean you have to get all defensive. It’s childish.

Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.




Dude, lay off the mushrooms for a bit.  I have not made any statements about mushrooms and wished you good health originally and was hoping to point you in the right direction with regards to taking care of yourself physically.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26496999 - 02/21/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Pukka tea brand is delicious. Expensive tho.

They have one call Turmeric Glow. It’s pretty good, but I really like their Relax or Nighttime blends.


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26497012 - 02/21/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I will check those out.  You refering to Turmeric Lifekind?


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497044 - 02/21/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:

I mean all those posts were totally off the mark. I just don’t get the attitude: ‘oh it can’t possibly be anything to do with the mushrooms, you must be dehydrated’. It’s such a blind spot. Just because I’m suggesting that your favourite thing might have a down side, that doesn’t mean you have to get all defensive. It’s childish.

Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.




Dude, lay off the mushrooms for a bit.  I have not made any statements about mushrooms and wished you good health originally and was hoping to point you in the right direction with regards to taking
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Turmeric is a spice.  That is all.  It has no medicinal value.  I have linked scientific evidence.  You have provided nothing other than anger.

Quote:

Indeed, my screen name is a play on science. I believe passionately in science, as in real science.
That's not about closing doors but opening them: a real scientist does not discount anecdotal evidence. They don't rely on it either. They examine it, explore it, look for more.  Just because you have not experienced something doesn't mean it didn't happen.




Fallacious.  Again I have provided scientifically published data supporting my claim, and you have provided nothing. 

Quote:

If you understand the nature of scientific studies, you understand that they are not easy to do well, they must be highly focused with large sample groups etc etc. Any scientific study must be carefully read to be properly understood.




And I have provided scientific evidence conducted in the globally approved manner, and you have provided nothing.

Quote:

If you had read what I wrote more carefully, you would have seen that I did not make any hard and fast claims for anything. I simply told what I experienced. Take from that what you will, but if you start telling me I am selling snake oil, don't be surprised when I tell you where to get off.




Human suffering is real.  People want to fix their ailments.  Turmeric is not going to help anyone with anything unless they wish their food tasted better.

Quote:

If you're not arguing that mushrooms have no side effects, why are you stating that not every substance has a negative as well as a positive effect? What's your point? You thought I was talking about every substance in the universe? OK, perhaps I should have been really specific to avoid all possible confusion: 'Every psychoactive substance has side effects'. How about that? Do you disagree?




I do not, people should not use psychoactive substances without great research and intention.

Quote:

Sorry, yes, curcumin (turmeric). That's not the first time that confusion has happened. It's an autocorrect thing. Look, I was not particularly expecting it to have any effect when I took it. I simply had some in the house and took it in place of 5-htp as an experiment. To my surprise, it worked. I didn't recommend anyone else to do it. I'm not selling supplements.




I do not think you are personally trying to mislead anyone or profit nefariously in any way.  Again, there are entire industries built around doing this quite effectively.  Look it up if you doubt me.  They are selling turmeric right now as medicinal at quite a high cost.  Compare this to turmeric you can get as a spice for food.  Yet, when subjected to scientific rigor we find that turmeric is a false lead.  People were not bad or evil when they thought maybe to explore it.  And who knows?  In the future something could be found.  But right now that is not what the data shows.  And people are really sick and really suffering, and to waste their time or money with nonsense goes against the Hippocratic Oath. 

Quote:

Please. Get off your high horse. You just said yourself Turmeric is a healthy food.




I ain't got no horse.  If you can't discern the difference between food and medicine, quit giving people false information about medicine.





You really do have an axe to grind, don’t you?

Listen, like I said, I make no claims for turmeric to be able to cure cancer or anything else. I made an observation. I just don’t like being talked down to by dogmatic individuals with too much time on their hands who think they know more than they do because they can use google.

The list of foods with health benefits is huge. If you genuinely don’t know this, I suggest you do more research. It’s genuinely surprising to find these kinds of attitudes on a forum devoted to plant medicine. Who would have thought, eh?

Virtually all foods have medicinal properties, particularly if a person is deficient in certain things. Your arbitrary distinction between foods and medicines suggests to me that you have no knowledge of complementary medicine or preventative medicine.

Just because it doesn’t fit into the narrow framework you have received doesn’t mean it’s not true.

Lay off the mushrooms? Guess what, that’s what I did. Took a few days, stood back, assessed the situation objectively. Then started again with a respectful attitude.

Perhaps that’s what you should do. Or perhaps you should take a higher dose and shake yourself out of your know-it-all attitude: you are no scientist, that I will tell you for free.

Stop playing at being one.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497048 - 02/21/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Thanks, I will check those out.  You refering to Turmeric Lifekind?




Careful with that stuff. And definitely don’t read about the health benefits or you’ll probably lose your shit again.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26497083 - 02/21/20 02:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:judyfacepalm:


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497106 - 02/21/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Someone end this discussion


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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26497114 - 02/21/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Backbone said:
Someone end this discussion




Please.

The irony of someone going off the deep end about consuming a kitchen spice on a forum dedicated to what is - in many parts of the world - a class A drug, is pretty f***ing hilarious though.

😂


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26497126 - 02/21/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You brought tea back up, 11 days after this thread died off...

Quote:

Backbone said:
tea is a diuretic





Quote:

Backbone said:
Someone end this discussion




.. and now you want to complain?

lol, obviously tea is a very big deal, as we now know. Anyone ever try a chai tea? Mind blowing stuff, you should try it.


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26497132 - 02/21/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Antidepressant activity of curcumin: involvement of serotonin and dopamine system
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-008-1300-y

An Overview of Curcumin in Neurological Disorders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2929771/

Curcumin reverses impaired hippocampal neurogenesis and increases serotonin receptor 1A mRNA and brain-derived neurotrophic factor expression in chronically stressed rats.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17617388


Curcumin Shows Promise as Depression Treatment
https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/topics/mood-disorders/curcumin-shows-promise-as-depression-treatment/

Turmeric
https://nootropicsexpert.com/

I haven't read 'em. But if you were of a scientific persuasion and highly opinionated about the subject, you might want to take a look.


Edited by Psyence (02/21/20 02:59 PM)


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InvisibleShr00mEater
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26497136 - 02/21/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Wow. What have ya got for ginger tea?


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? *DELETED* [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #26497176 - 02/21/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by InfiniteDreams

Reason for deletion: ?


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? *DELETED* [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497180 - 02/21/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by InfiniteDreams

Reason for deletion: ?


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497203 - 02/21/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497244 - 02/21/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Internet arguing is special olympics.  I believe we have very different opinions on what science is and what valid scientific research is.  So we are at an impasse.


Edited by InfiniteDreams (02/22/20 07:19 PM)


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InvisibleInfiniteDreams
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497248 - 02/21/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Wow


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26497292 - 02/21/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Psychology Today: Supplemental Science: Tweaking Turmeric
A variant of the superspice makes gains as a way to stave off cognitive decline.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201803/supplemental-science-tweaking-turmeric%3famp


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26497296 - 02/21/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe you should try some


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
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OfflineBackbone
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26497303 - 02/21/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Also if you put tumeric up your ass it travels directly to the gut unprocessed and cleanses your serotonin levels


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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26497312 - 02/21/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Backbone said:
Also if you put tumeric up your ass it travels directly to the gut unprocessed and cleanses your serotonin levels




I’ll have to take your word on that one.


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
    #26497319 - 02/21/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Backbone said:
Also if you put tumeric up your ass it travels directly to the gut unprocessed and cleanses your serotonin levels




Surely you’d have to remove your own head from up there first though?


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflinePsyence
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26497324 - 02/21/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psyence said:
Quote:

Backbone said:
Also if you put tumeric up your ass it travels directly to the gut unprocessed and cleanses your serotonin levels




Surely you’d have to remove your own head from up there first though?




And if your friend Infinitedream wants to try it, you’ll have to get out of his too...


--------------------
"It never got weird enough for me"
- HST



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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
    #26499075 - 02/21/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Its just getting silly guys.


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