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LoneLobo
Stranger


Registered: 04/14/16
Posts: 145
Loc: Miami, FL
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26473735 - 02/07/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.
I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.
Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.
-------------------- "You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."
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The Mycologist
Explorer

Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 3,024
Last seen: 29 days, 8 hours
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26473754 - 02/07/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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You are taking way more than microdoses. So thats a factor.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26474939 - 02/08/20 03:16 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psyence said: Really? That regularly? What do you feel you gain from it?
I’m trying to figure out how best to use cubensis. They’re not my favourite mushroom - I’d prefer Liberty Caps - but they’re the ones I can grow 
Any tips for how to get the most from them?
Hey Psyence, good morning.
That’s a real tough question to answer, because I frilly believe this is something you need to work out for yourself. I initially started out with infrequent but high doses, as per Terence McKenna’s advice. But the afterglow didn’t last and the intensity of the trips put me off for months.
Then in Nov 2018 I had a really effective 4.1g B+ trip, where I believe the mushrooms helped me really understand my depression. I subsequently didn’t feel depressed again or trip again for 11 months.
Oct 2019 my depressive thoughts started returning, so I decided to dose slightly lower but at more frequent intervals. This has been the most effective so far, and I do believe the depression has gone again.
But now I’m not so sure I need to trip for a while; had a really nasty experience from 3.8g B+ last night. There was something seriously wrong such that it felt more like 13.8g B+. I had to text my wife at 1.5 hours in to come home and sit with me so we could ride it out together. My thoughts this morning are that regarding my depression there’s little else the mushrooms can tell me, so a break of 6 months now feels sensible.
I could have been doing it all wrong pal, but I seem to have got where I wanted to.
I think the best advice I could give, apart from getting help here, is to listen to your body and your mind; they’re the best indicator of whether you’re overdoing it or not.
Mush love DJ Ed
Edit: one other thing to note. Since October last year, I have been tripping completely alone. My wife has been making arrangements so I have the house and my two dogs to myself for the night. That has resulted in my trips going deeper, and being more useful. I’ve found that if there’s someone else in the house, even if upstairs and I’m downstairs, this stops me trippingnas hard because I’m always concerned what the other person is doing, thinking etc.
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

Edited by DJ Ed (02/08/20 03:37 AM)
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: LoneLobo]
#26474951 - 02/08/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
LoneLobo said: I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.
I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.
Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.
Ah, that’s very nice to hear. Not a nice thing to experience, but good to know I’m not alone!
Do you have any thoughts about why it might happen? I thought our friend’s response above about the brain’s serotonin receptors becoming accustomed to psilocybin/psilocin instead of serotonin was really interesting. Thanks for posting.
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Quote:
The Mycologist said: You are taking way more than microdoses. So thats a factor.
Haha, yes. Someone else pointed that out!
There does seem to be a bit of variation in what people consider to be a microdose. Also, the things themselves vary so much in strength, don’t they? I have some Hawaiians and Albino A+ that are v. strong and some Treasure Coast that are quite weak.
Need better scales too.
Anyone know how to measure psilocybin content?
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26474958 - 02/08/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks DJ Ed. That’s interesting. I generally don’t trip alone, but I might try it.
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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LoneLobo
Stranger


Registered: 04/14/16
Posts: 145
Loc: Miami, FL
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26475359 - 02/08/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psyence said:
Quote:
LoneLobo said: I've had the exact same thing happen to me on several instances, not just with micro but with full on weekly doses.
I use 5htp to mitigate. When those feelings start coming on pop half a regular recommended dose of 5htp. Works in minutes and pretty much always clears out the cobwebs, so to speak.
Movement can be helpful as well. Go for a walk or a run to get the blood pumping. But 5htp is a must. I always make sure to have some on hand.
Ah, that’s very nice to hear. Not a nice thing to experience, but good to know I’m not alone!
Do you have any thoughts about why it might happen? I thought our friend’s response above about the brain’s serotonin receptors becoming accustomed to psilocybin/psilocin instead of serotonin was really interesting. Thanks for posting.
I'm no doctor, but I've always believed this is the result of a lack of serotonin in the brain - not enough to carry information through the pathways. Think of your sober mind as a processing factory. Every day they spit out 10 truck fulls of information per hour. On psilocybin, the mental pathways are more open and more interconnected, so it's more like 20 or 30 truckloads per hour. Depending on the state of the brain at the time of ingestion, usually you can handle this extra workload, but if you've been using psilocybin too often, the trucks just aren't there, so you end up with back up, like a traffic jam.
Depression, negative thoughts, low energy, anxiety: these are the signs of low serotonin. A little 5htp can totally spin a bad trip in the right direction.
-------------------- "You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."
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Backbone
Stranger



Registered: 01/18/20
Posts: 339
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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tea is a diuretic
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
#26494347 - 02/20/20 02:47 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Backbone said: tea is a diuretic
How is that related to the discussion?
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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Backbone
Stranger



Registered: 01/18/20
Posts: 339
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26494985 - 02/20/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The one guy was saying the op probably just felt better because he drank and thus got hydrated
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Backbone]
#26495825 - 02/20/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Backbone said: The one guy was saying the op probably just felt better because he drank and thus got hydrated
Right.
I mean all those posts were totally off the mark. I just don’t get the attitude: ‘oh it can’t possibly be anything to do with the mushrooms, you must be dehydrated’. It’s such a blind spot. Just because I’m suggesting that your favourite thing might have a down side, that doesn’t mean you have to get all defensive. It’s childish.
Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.
I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.
If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496004 - 02/20/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.
Well that is false, not every substance has to have a downside.
Quote:
I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.
Eh, turmeric is not magic. It may have a small anti-inflammatory effect but even that is debated.
Quote:
If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!
If people didn't question what others claimed then charlatans would reign supreme.
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:
Every substance has a downside. Every one. Psilocybin probably a lot less than most, but if you ignore the possibility then you are doing no-one any favours.
Well that is false, not every substance has to have a downside.
Quote:
I cannot be 100% sure without conducting my own scientific trial, but I am 90% sure that what I experienced was due to regularly taking psilocybin, perhaps coupled with a dietary deficiency (I eat a healthy, balanced diet though). Turmeric appeared to have an almost instant restorative effect.
Eh, turmeric is not magic. It may have a small anti-inflammatory effect but even that is debated.
Quote:
If you have not experienced something, good for you, but to call into doubt what another person has experienced is insulting. Worse than that though, it is evidence of a closed mind, which is not something I expected to see here, of all places!
If people didn't question what others claimed then charlatans would reign supreme.
Nothing at all wrong with questioning what other say, but I don't hear any questions... What's your question?
There are substances with no down side? Name one. Give me an example of a psychoactive substance with no down side.
Turmeric is not magic? I never claimed that it was. I said it appeared to have a very specific effect in a very specific circumstance. That's hardly claiming it cures cancer, now is it?
As for the implication that I am a charlatan, again, that's insulting. If you have nothing worthwhile to say, you have the option to say nothing.
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496738 - 02/21/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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And just to be clear, when I came on this forum to discuss this, I didn’t come selling anything.
I had an experience. I did some research (on this forum) and found some useful information. I used that information and found a possible solution.
What I did next was to post here in order to confirm whether other people had experienced anything similar, to see whether they had also found a solution. I also posted in case it might be of use to anyone else.
That’s the most scientific and useful thing I could think of doing in the situation.
I didn’t post asking for the opinions of opinionated evangelists about something they have no experience of. Just because you didn’t experience a thing doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Frankly I expected more from people who are supposedly into consciousness expansion, but I guess there are no places free of ignorance!
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
Edited by Psyence (02/21/20 10:24 AM)
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496823 - 02/21/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Keep your chin up, pal. People on here generally mean well. Sending you love, peace and good vibes DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496831 - 02/21/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I do not think you are a charlatan. I am referring to many people happy to profit off of selling snake oils.
If turmeric makes you happy then go for it.
You don't like what I say so you call me ignorant. And insult everyone at large on the forum based on my statements. Whether I am ignorant or not does not mean people here have closed minds. I can support my ignorant view with accredited published research:
The Journal of Medicinal Chemistry:
"Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate. The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases. No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead. On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed."
Chemistry: Chemical con artists foil drug discovery
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Quote:
InfiniteDreams said: I do not think you are a charlatan. I am referring to many people happy to profit off of selling snake oils.
If turmeric makes you happy then go for it.
You don't like what I say so you call me ignorant. And insult everyone at large on the forum based on my statements. Whether I am ignorant or not does not mean people here have closed minds. I can support my ignorant view with accredited published research:
The Journal of Medicinal Chemistry:
"Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate. The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases. No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead. On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed."
Chemistry: Chemical con artists foil drug discovery
You seem to be confused.
My statements refer to you and the other person attempting to tell me I was not experiencing the symptoms I was experiencing and did not experience relief from the thing that appeared to relieve them. I am calling you ignorant, yes, because to ignore or discount another person’s experience based simply on your own bias is the very definition of ignorance. If you find that insulting, then perhaps you should check your own attitude. It seems to me you are definitely on the wrong forum for a person who holds those kind of views and opinions. At the very least you must realise that you are on a hiding to nothing arguing that kind of thing, so why waste your time?
My comments are certainly not directed at anyone else, so I have no idea who else you think I am insulting.
What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?
You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.
What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing.
Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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Psyence
Stranger than most



Registered: 01/09/20
Posts: 64
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496860 - 02/21/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJ Ed said: Keep your chin up, pal. People on here generally mean well. Sending you love, peace and good vibes DJ Ed
Cheers Ed!
You too.
I can see there are good people here, just disappointing when other people weigh in with nothing worthwhile to say
-------------------- "It never got weird enough for me" - HST
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496875 - 02/21/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your screename is a play on "science" and you are claiming your anecdotal experience is above actual scientific rigor. I hope all the best for you and if turmeric solves your problems I am glad that your problems have been solved. I wish you the best. However, I don't believe that turmeric is medicine and would never suggest it to someone as a means of correcting any issues. My view comes from the rigorous scientific evidence.
Quote:
What are you actually arguing? That mushrooms can have no side-effects? How do you know?
I never said anything remotely like that. You are just mad that I disagreed with your statement that every substance in the universe must have a negative aspect.
Quote:
You are arguing that cumin has no effect in boosting serotonin? Maybe you’re right, maybe not.
I didn't bring up cumin. I think you are confusing curcumin, which is the substance in turmeric that is being investigated. And yes I am arguing that turmeric in general and curcumin specifically have no proven medical benefit. And I am basing my argument off of scientific research rather than anecdotal, subjective experience.
I have nothing against turmeric, it is a delicious spice and I"m sure it has wonderful nutritious benefits. It is good as a food. I think it is quack medicine.
Quote:
What I still don’t understand is why you involve yourself in a discussion to which you have added nothing. Perhaps you are just bored and have nothing better to do?
Um... so people don't continue to spread misinformation and hurt people's health with fake medicine.
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Serotonin deficiency? [Re: Psyence]
#26496878 - 02/21/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psyence said: I can see there are good people here, just disappointing when other people weigh in with nothing worthwhile to say
It hurts my feelings when you insinuate that I am a bad person.
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