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OfflinePegway
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Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate?
    #26468829 - 02/04/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hi All,

Newbie here working on my first grow and I'm looking for some advice on how much substrate to use in my monotub.  I initially had two 2 pound spawn bags that were colonizing nicely.  Unfortunately a couple of weeks in my dog got into one and ate about half of it (should I be checking his poo for mushrooms :smile:).  So now I'm left with one 2 pound bag that is now a couple of days from being fully colonized.  I'm using a 54 quart tub so my question is, because I only have a 2 pound bag of spawn, would it be better to have a deeper substrate that is a lower ratio of spawn, or would it be better to have a shallower substrate with a little higher ratio?  I guess the other option would be to get a smaller tub but I'd prefer to avoid that unless it's really necessary. Thanks!


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26468910 - 02/04/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If i were you, i would do a deeper substrate with a lower ratio of spawn. That's just my personal preference.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26468948 - 02/04/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks.  I'm a little worried that it won't colonize properly or will take months.  If the 2lb bag equates to roughly 2 quarts then I'd need 14 quarts of substrate to make 3 inches in my tub.  Is a 1:7 ratio too low?  Debating just getting a 20 quart tub and having a smaller yield for this go around.


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469097 - 02/04/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I've been lowering my spawn ratio over time with excellent results.  I do 1:5 generally (or something in that neighborhood) for most of my projects but 1:7 would be fine, honestly.  Deeper is definately better and relative to not only yield but yield of/success of later flushes IME.  I started this round adding another inch to my recent shoeboxes and monos and lo and behold they maintain better surface conditions.  Way less misting, and they deal with temperature fluctuations better in regard to losing surface moisture.  1:5 seems like the sweet spot but I've done 1:10 a couple times now and my BE was still very respectable.


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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26469102 - 02/04/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Can we talk about how your dog enjoyed the trip?


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26469162 - 02/04/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Can we talk about how your dog enjoyed the trip?




:whathesaid:

Did he actually get high? I always wonder how much spawn you would need to eat to get high.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26469177 - 02/04/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't notice anything but he's 120 lbs and a little high strung to begin with.


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469186 - 02/04/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

yo, if youre working with 2lb or you said 2 quarts?

you should just use double or triple the amount of spawn. dont worry about depth.

i did shoeboxes with 1.5-2 inch depth with 1 quart spawn to 2 quarts coir/verm

its gave 3-4 flushes. one shoebox did 1-2oz dry

depth doesnt matter. sure you can speculate but just get the thing to fruit.

really dont worry about depth. worry about it colonizing fast and strong


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: yojay50]
    #26469200 - 02/04/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Depth may not be critical but as others have said, it changes things a lot when it comes to maintenance and steady conditions in my experience. I'm another vote for higher ratio of sub and more depth.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Smartattack]
    #26469292 - 02/04/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

To clarify, I have a 2 pound bag of grain spawn but I've read and it looks like that will be roughly 2 quarts.  When using a monotub I've read multiple threads that say anything less than 2 inches isn't good.  I assume that's because of maintenance and conditions as some have said.  I don't mind if it takes a little longer to colonize but just want to make sure it's still strong.


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469304 - 02/04/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Pegway said:
To clarify, I have a 2 pound bag of grain spawn but I've read and it looks like that will be roughly 2 quarts.  When using a monotub I've read multiple threads that say anything less than 2 inches isn't good.  I assume that's because of maintenance and conditions as some have said.  I don't mind if it takes a little longer to colonize but just want to make sure it's still strong.





dude monotub or growing out of a glass. its the same,

depth isnt going to give stregnth. 2 inch or 4 inch it just uses the food it has to produce fruit.

less substrate isnt going to give you limp fruit or cause problems.

just expand to what you feel and prioritize colonization speed and expanding.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: yojay50]
    #26469322 - 02/04/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah makes sense. I meant to highlight the size of the container, not that it's a monotub.  Think I'm going to shoot for 2 inches and we'll see how it goes.  Given the shallower depth, will it dry out faster or should I be good without misting until after the first flush?


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469357 - 02/04/20 09:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The thinner you go, the higher the percentage of substrate becomes surface area. So yes logic and practice dictates a thinner sub will hold water for less time. Do a tub 1/4" thick, it will be dry before corn flakes get soggy.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Smartattack]
    #26469363 - 02/04/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I had a deaf and blind cocker spaniel with a nose as sharp as a blade. I dropped 3 fresh fruits during harvest and she wolfed them down before I could blink. She was shaking all night and whimpering. I sat with my arms around her all night. I think she had a good ride.


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Smartattack]
    #26469371 - 02/04/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What Smartattack said= :thumbup: 2" isn't ideal.  Shoot for 3-4 for much better results and easier maintenence.  And yojay: no one said anything about limp fruits or whatever.  There is a huge difference between 2 and 4" of sub in reference to maintenence.  And... if you're not keeping an eye on conditions becasue you like... have a life for instance... and you don't maintain surface conditions appropriately- it will lower yields.  Over-misting isn't great either and this is a learning experience for him so it's best to shoot for self-maintaining and not try to compensate after the fact.  Go deeper.  4" works super-duper, but 3 is way better than 2.


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469398 - 02/04/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Pegway said:
Yeah makes sense. I meant to highlight the size of the container, not that it's a monotub.  Think I'm going to shoot for 2 inches and we'll see how it goes.  Given the shallower depth, will it dry out faster or should I be good without misting until after the first flush?





a substrate drying out is the grower doing something wrong.

you can achieve set and forget with any substrate depth, it just depends on your container and how you keep the conditions inside. you only need a little airflow in the monotub/thing your substrate is in.

also a 2 and 8 inch sub is going to dry out and shrink all the same. both depths have the same surface area.

yea a 2 inch sub wont hold as much water as a 8 inch sub. but both will shrink.

PLUS after the flush you soak the sub anyways.

conditions are dealt with before the tub is set and forget.


if your sub drys fast then next time make your substrate a little more wet, or up humidity in the tub. ie spraying the walls a bit.

the deeper the sub the more stuff to eat and more flushes you can get.

BE is all that matters. but with what ops working with. its better to just focus on speed and colonization than using a less amount of spawn to a high amount of sub just to get to the "magical" 4-6inch suggestion.

like dont use 2 quarts to colonize 15 quarts of sub. its just risky and yea might take longer. idk

just dont worry to much about depth. conditions are something different.

like with a shoebox, you put everything in and then leave the lid on and come back to mushrooms in a 2 week time frame. it makes its own climate. but you can mist if you want towards the end when its colonized but itll litteraly just pin if you leave it. misting can fuck things up if done wrong.

have you looked at mushboys shoebox thread
?


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: eatyualive] * 1
    #26469401 - 02/04/20 10:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
I had a deaf and blind cocker spaniel with a nose as sharp as a blade. I dropped 3 fresh fruits during harvest and she wolfed them down before I could blink. She was shaking all night and whimpering. I sat with my arms around her all night. I think she had a good ride.





she probably heard and saw during that DAMN


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OfflineMaylink
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469410 - 02/04/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Pegway said:
I didn't notice anything but he's 120 lbs and a little high strung to begin with.




My puppy stole a ~9g wet shroom back from my first harvest and was a bit silly and wobbly, before snoring all night. I swear it’s made him more self-aware/intelligent (and naughty). They probably eat this stuff all the time out in nature.


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Offlineyojay50
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Maylink]
    #26469416 - 02/04/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

reminds me of a time my friends puppy ate a gram of shatter and was fucking freaking out. freaked me out dude


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: yojay50]
    #26469434 - 02/04/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to be really careful to make sure that my sub is at field capacity so I guess my biggest concern is just that it will dry out faster if it's not deep enough because it has less water to start with.  That said I've also read a lot that going with too low a ratio of spawn will be problematic.
I've read the mushboys shoebox thread but was just hoping to use my 54 quart tub because I had it on hand and have already prepped it.


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26469476 - 02/04/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Use a smaller tote if you dont have enough spawn for a big one. 2 quarts is perfect for a shoebox dubtub at 1:3. Shoeboxes are usually 1$ each. Start some more bags

Shallow subs work but require more maintenance, IE misting or bottom watering,

and really narrow range like 1:1 will colonize and fruit fastest but give lower Biological Efficiency overall. However if your spawn is questionable this gives least amount of time for contamination to set it. If its super bacterial You can mix 1:1 with coir prepped dryer than field capacity (1-2 drops not a stream) then if you get a massive pinset you can bottom water. But make sure to not overdo it.


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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: yojay50]
    #26469480 - 02/04/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)









also a 2 and 8 inch sub is going to dry out and shrink all the same. both depths have the same surface area.







:tryingnottodie:


Of course they have the same surface area, difference being that one has 4 times the volume of substrate beneath the given surface area. This isnt a debatable variable. What your saying is straight up fake news.


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Smartattack]
    #26469510 - 02/05/20 12:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:








also a 2 and 8 inch sub is going to dry out and shrink all the same. both depths have the same surface area.







:tryingnottodie:


Of course they have the same surface area, difference being that one has 4 times the volume of substrate beneath the given surface area. This isnt a debatable variable. What your saying is straight up fake news.</font></font>




A wide mouth quart mason jar filled with water halfway will take 1/2 of the time that it would take a wide mouth quart mason jar full of water. :shrug: is just pure common sense.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #26485262 - 02/14/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Update and question:  I ended up using about a 1:4 ratio in my 56 quart tub and that got me to about 2 3/4 inches plus I put a 1/4 inch casing layer on.  It's been 9 days and I had it wrapped in a blanket because my house gets a little cool at night.  I took it out to expose to light and this is how it's looking.  There's still some moisture on the sides of the tub so I'm hoping the substrate still has enough moisture.  Should I just let it go and be patient or is there anything else I should do to put into fruiting conditions?  My house is generally between 65 and 72 depending on time of day.


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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26485298 - 02/14/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

will you post a pic with the lid off? it's hard to see what's going on in there.


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OfflinePegway
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: normalperson]
    #26485332 - 02/14/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)





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OfflineMushkingMulah360
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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: Pegway]
    #26485347 - 02/14/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If anything it looks a little wet too me as you can see the mating of the mycelium. But hey I’m still a noob so not I’m %100


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Re: Better to have higher ratio of spawn or deeper substrate? [Re: MushkingMulah360]
    #26485368 - 02/14/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


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