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Offlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26468606 - 02/04/20 02:21 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
Negative. That is not at all what I'm doing.

I said I won't speak to your talking points about the middle class and what you think the middle class should have because it is also probably an arbitrary vision not based on anything real.

I brought up the standard of living to note that simultaneously Jeff Bezos has amassed his fortune while the standard of living has also risen for most people globally compared to 100 years ago. Even people in 3rd world countries are likely living at least a little easier than their family members were 100 years ago.

That is a testament to Bezos not actually taking money out of anyone's pockets because the money supply is not finite. If it were he would not be able to amass a fortune (not to mention all the other people making bank out there, also not keeping money out of people's hands) at the same time that the average persons quality of life is climbing.

And by suggesting most of Bezos' wealth comes at the expense of others..... you are literally defining a zero-sum game but just saying you are not.

Wikipedia defines a zero-sum game as:

In game theory and economic theory, a zero-sum game is a mathematical representation of a situation in which each participant's gain or loss of utility is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the utility of the other participants.




Again, you're still making the SAME fallacious argument.

You're attempting to rationalize Bezos gaming the system to accumulate billions by suggesting the standard of living improved in the 3rd world. What DOES technology gains have to do with Bezos gaming the system?  NOTHING!!!  You do realize your argument is fallacious?

The standard of living can rise DESPITE Bezos gaming the system, but does that justify him gaming the system at the expense of others?  No it doesn't.

"That is a testament"  No it isn't, it's a fallacious argument.  :shrug:

Also, reread what zero sum means, the term "exactly" is key here. I never stated "exactly", I stated "most". That's a big difference.


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468611 - 02/04/20 02:23 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

"Though Jeff Bezos’ annual salary is only $81,840, most of his wealth comes from his Amazon shares"

According to business insider

You think Jeff Bezos is the only Amazon shareholder? :lol: You have no idea how businesses works


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Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Offlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26468616 - 02/04/20 02:25 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
And I also said that if this IS a zero- sum game ( meaning my gain is your loss if we are 2 players) then Jeff Bezos' could not amass such a fortune while simultaneously the standard of living globally is rising.

Amassing of a fortune and global rising of standard of living would be mutually exclusive in a zero-sum game.

Edit** Therefore.. no this is not a zero-sum game. And yes, there is plenty of icecream for everyone. You just have to go out and get yours instead of worrying about how much people like Bezos are eating.




Yes, standards of living can improve from technology simultaneously while the billionaires screw the 99% out of their due share of production.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26468631 - 02/04/20 02:31 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
So it is ok to be mega-rich, but poor people should be able to dictate how the mega rich spend their money, arbitrarily?

Edit** Or shouldn't the mega rich be able to decide for themselves (just like normal folks) how and when they're going to spend their loot?

Or if they even spend it at all?




The (poor) citizens should be able to elect Representatives to tax income and wealth at the levels they think is reasonable. Guess why this doesn't work today?  Because our "Representatives" are bought and paid for by billionaires!!!!!

There's nothing fair or level about this playing field, it's a rigged game and it's only going to get worse. Why do you defend criminals?


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: qman] * 1
    #26468647 - 02/04/20 02:40 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Good for him. Nothing like providing your workers with no benefits and shitty working conditions. Also paying them a non liveable wage. Good for that dude he's totally stuck it to every one of us.

That wealth benefits nobody but him. But good for him man i'm happy for him. You won dude.


--------------------
"I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"In the days of kings and queens I was a jester."

"And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies

"Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26468650 - 02/04/20 02:43 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
"Though Jeff Bezos’ annual salary is only $81,840, most of his wealth comes from his Amazon shares"

According to business insider

You think Jeff Bezos is the only Amazon shareholder? :lol: You have no idea how businesses works



I never even remotely suggested that. Did you even read my poast?
Jeff owns 16% of Amazon btw. That’s a huge chunk. Stocks are the next best thing to liquid funds imo.

Either way, it’s pretty asinine to say someone you never met has “no idea how business works”. But not any more asinine than suggesting that Bezos’ hoarding is not hurting the working class or shrinking the economy overall.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468663 - 02/04/20 02:48 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Still don't get the point. Reread. All of it. Twice.

You'll get there.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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InvisibleMagicman69
All About the Benjamins
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468665 - 02/04/20 02:49 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

The Washington Post already named Jeff Bezos Man of the Year for 2020.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26468674 - 02/04/20 02:54 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
Still don't get the point. Reread. All of it. Twice.

You'll get there.



Pfff what a non-answer. Guess you’re at your wit’s end here, huh?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Magicman69]
    #26468677 - 02/04/20 02:55 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
The Washington Post already named Jeff Bezos Man of the Year for 2020.




Source?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468683 - 02/04/20 02:58 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:


Money is a placeholder for value. Money is finite at any given time but it's not fixed. So in this way it's infinite because it can always grow. If it grows faster than value that's inflation you could have millions and not be able to buy a loaf of bread. If value gets added its really easy to print more money. Your idea of a finite amount of dollars doesn't work though.

Everyone could be billionaires and we could all drive fast cars. If we created enough value for everyone. Money doesn't create value. If you give people with shit skills more money eventually the economy will correct itself they'll go back to being broke in comparison to everyone else. You can't fix people with monetary policy.

If you fight for 15/hr and get it then still do 7$ an hour work 15 turns into the new 7 because you didn't magically add 8 dollars of value per hour extra to your work ethic. Prices go up and you end up worse off than before because people with skills and intelligence will squeeze your new money sponge even harder because they got pissed off they had to pay you more than your worth





--------------------
:whyyy:


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26468700 - 02/04/20 03:05 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:


Money is a placeholder for value. Money is finite at any given time but it's not fixed. So in this way it's infinite because it can always grow. If it grows faster than value that's inflation you could have millions and not be able to buy a loaf of bread. If value gets added its really easy to print more money. Your idea of a finite amount of dollars doesn't work though.

Everyone could be billionaires and we could all drive fast cars. If we created enough value for everyone. Money doesn't create value. If you give people with shit skills more money eventually the economy will correct itself they'll go back to being broke in comparison to everyone else. You can't fix people with monetary policy.

If you fight for 15/hr and get it then still do 7$ an hour work 15 turns into the new 7 because you didn't magically add 8 dollars of value per hour extra to your work ethic. Prices go up and you end up worse off than before because people with skills and intelligence will squeeze your new money sponge even harder because they got pissed off they had to pay you more than your worth








Basically, we’re all stupid and unskilled, so we should just eat our mystery meat and be happy about it? Got it.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468714 - 02/04/20 03:09 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Im saying you can't pay someone more than they produce or it will fail. However you want to frame that in your perspective is up to you. I personally wouldn't be so pessimistic. Being pessimistic is a trait of the people who don't get paid what they want to but think complaining is the best solution.


--------------------
:whyyy:


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468715 - 02/04/20 03:10 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Magicman69 said:
The Washington Post already named Jeff Bezos Man of the Year for 2020.




Source?



It was a joke. He owns the paper and 2020 just started :lol:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Magicman69]
    #26468727 - 02/04/20 03:17 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Well all that other stuff ya’ll are saying aside, it would be nice if Amazon as well as other giant companies walking away with the level of profit they are would treat their employees better.  They’re helping make a hard life impossible.

It would also be nice if in addition to them helping in that regard the healthcare system wasn’t doing essentially the same thing.  Not everyone needs Lambo’s but everyone should be able to see a doctor and go to the dentist etc.  Humans are capable of entirely too much at this point for there to be people being told “tough shit” when it comes to their health.

That’s really all my point was.


--------------------
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"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26468739 - 02/04/20 03:23 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Im saying you can't pay someone more than they produce or it will fail. However you want to frame that in your perspective is up to you. I personally wouldn't be so pessimistic. Being pessimistic is a trait of the people who don't get paid what they want to but think complaining is the best solution.




Oh ok. Thats a different point completely.
Still, the CEO of Starbucks offers to pay the tuition of all his employees. Thousands of baristas get tuition reimbursement. As per your logic, this is a win-win. Working class people gain skills, while everyone else reaps the benefits of an economy stimulated by all this new “value”.
Don’t you think this should be free for ALL working class folks? And who better to pay for it than the “intelligent” billionaires who have more than any person could ever spend? What about healthcare? A healthier society is more profitable - better for everyone.

I was only bashing bezo’s lack of spending, not his lack of philanthropy.
I’m not saying he should give his money away. But hoarding so much (not spending it) shrinks the economy, which is bad for everyone.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468743 - 02/04/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Damn it, Amanita
:trippy:

Beat me to it again.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26468750 - 02/04/20 03:30 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Investing in people is one strategy. Bezo may see that no one really needs a college education to move up the ladder at his company. Perhaps teaching is done internally and class by class when needed. Making investing in degrees useless to him.

Most places do offer healthcare. It would probably be a lot better had government not been meddling with it for decades


--------------------
:whyyy:


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26469011 - 02/04/20 06:22 PM (4 years, 12 days ago)

So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?

I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be :shrug:


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Offlineichugwindex
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
    #26469044 - 02/04/20 06:41 PM (4 years, 12 days ago)

As someone who has never held more than 5k at once in my hand at one time...fuck you Bezos. Distribute his assets amongst the most poor.


--------------------
Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.


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