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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 3
    #26467647 - 02/03/20 09:57 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
I don't really understand all the extra moral responsibilities pushed on people that make it big. :shrug:

I don't know a lot about why people hate on Amazon and/or Bezos though.

Can anyone enlighten me?




Part of it is that he's super rich and his employees that work for his company are just getting by with meager wages. Theres a huge issue of financial inequality between the working/middle class and these ultra rich billionaires.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 3
    #26467659 - 02/03/20 10:06 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
I don't really understand all the extra moral responsibilities pushed on people that make it big. :shrug:

I don't know a lot about why people hate on Amazon and/or Bezos though.

Can anyone enlighten me?




His wealth comes at the expense of others. The value of Amazon stock is contingent upon the (low wages) of his employees.

His wealth is also contingent upon the tax and economic policy that billionaires lobby for everyday in Washington DC, which of course comes at the expense of others.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26467666 - 02/03/20 10:16 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Amazon's success does not mean that their employees' labor is worth more than it is to a similar but not super successful company.

Those are the extra moral responsibilities I'm asking about.

An assembly line worker's labor is only worth a particular range of wages and has little to no correlation with how the business as a whole is succeeding. Probably more related to what people in the industry are making on average and what the minimum pay is to keep people on-board of the desired skill level.

As an employee, you aren't getting a percentage. That's important to remember.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26467667 - 02/03/20 10:20 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Businesses do not acquire wealth by withholding it from others.

They add value to something and then sell it.

Take a block of wood you buy for a dollar. Carve it into a mushroom.
Now sell it for $5 to your buddy. You just added value to the wood and created 4 dollars that were not there before.

It is not a pie that only has so many slices.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 2
    #26467670 - 02/03/20 10:21 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

I would argue that Amazon workers are getting under compensated for their work as evidence by Jeff Bezo's $129 Billion dollar worth. Its one of the reasons why Amazon is so sucessful, cheap labor and cheap costs. But working for Amazon, from what Ive heard, is miserable and degrading work. Thats the cost of cheap labor and shipping.

Also, i just did the math. The average income in the US is about $50,000 per year. Jeff Bezo's worth is more than 2,500,000x more than that yearly income! :eek:


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OfflineTaliesenW
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26467678 - 02/03/20 10:28 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

it is so much money to handle especially if that is real


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26467682 - 02/03/20 10:34 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

But just because Bezos has all that money, doesn't mean it is costing or preventing anyone from making any amount of money.

The money you make as an employee is related to the task you do and how much that task is worth. Not how successful a company is. Also it is tied in to the area that the work is being done.

If welders in China make roughly $2 an hour, welding is still only worth $2 an hour in China regardless of that happens or how much money is made later on down the line.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 2
    #26467694 - 02/03/20 10:45 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
But just because Bezos has all that money, doesn't mean it is costing or preventing anyone from making any amount of money.

The money you make as an employee is related to the task you do and how much that task is worth. Not how successful a company is. Also it is tied in to the area that the work is being done.

If welders in China make roughly $2 an hour, welding is still only worth $2 an hour in China regardless of that happens or how much money is made later on down the line.




Actually, one of the most important aspects of maintaining wealth is creating laws, regulations and environments that destroy any potential competition. You don't really believe that The Elite embrace "free markets", do you? 

The rich manipulate labor markets, tax codes, fiscal policy and monetary policy to benefit themselves. This obviously comes at the expense of everybody else.  Operating in a free market is too difficult, that's why they spend hundreds of billions of dollars lobbying in DC every year.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: qman]
    #26467703 - 02/03/20 10:55 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

If the rules of the game change, we're all still playing the same game.

Which is not a zero-sum game.

If Bezos has, it doesn't mean you don't have.

Just means you haven't earned.


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Offlineazramb
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26467704 - 02/03/20 10:56 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

I worked there for a short time as a driver. They were actually pretty friendly -to the drivers-and the pay was decent. Not amazing but not bad.

That being said it wasnt technically Amazon I was working for. It was some third party company that ships exclusively for Amazon out of their warehouse. And while I was there I did notice the drivers talking shit to the packers/sorters right to their faces basically. I've heard it's not great working there in a warehouse position and if my experience with the way drivers acted toward the warehouse folk is the norm in other facilities I bet that's partially why.

I've had a couple warehouse jobs and they're just not great in general alot of the times. I never really felt degraded though like I've heard about from Amazon's warehouse so idk. Ive read alot of people just don't like all of the cameras/servailence there. Which I get but I also see why they have it in place. In my POV Jeff isn't really any worse than the other billionaires. Not any better but not really any worse.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: azramb]
    #26467737 - 02/03/20 11:29 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

azramb said:
I worked there for a short time as a driver. They were actually pretty friendly -to the drivers-and the pay was decent. Not amazing but not bad.

That being said it wasnt technically Amazon I was working for. It was some third party company that ships exclusively for Amazon out of their warehouse. And while I was there I did notice the drivers talking shit to the packers/sorters right to their faces basically. I've heard it's not great working there in a warehouse position and if my experience with the way drivers acted toward the warehouse folk is the norm in other facilities I bet that's partially why.

I've had a couple warehouse jobs and they're just not great in general alot of the times. I never really felt degraded though like I've heard about from Amazon's warehouse so idk. Ive read alot of people just don't like all of the cameras/servailence there. Which I get but I also see why they have it in place. In my POV Jeff isn't really any worse than the other billionaires. Not any better but not really any worse.




I suspect most jobs that a person can get without any type of specialized education, experience, or training are going to be pretty soso with pretty meh pay.

What you earn is directly related to the complexity of the problems that you solve while working.

Bringing Amazon to the global table must have been and continues to be extremely complex.

Like complex to the point that hella people with hella specialized knowledge all worked on various pieces and made their bank in proportion to the difficulty of their tasks along the way.

S'not like Bezos did it all himself. But if you're the most complex problem solver- you make the most money or some shit.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26467875 - 02/04/20 04:05 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Most of it was just being at the right place at the right time and being able to ride out the dot com bust.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26467897 - 02/04/20 05:06 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Bill Gates is what billionaires should be and I believe that if even a few went down that path the world would be a much much better place. Past that most billionaires are pretty much scim of the earth and more than likely the real reason there's so much poverty and not much medical advancements




Like 1.3 billion people have been lifted out of extreme poverty since 1980. :shrug:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Amanita86]
    #26467902 - 02/04/20 05:11 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
You would think that’s enough to pay his employess a non-bullshit wage.  That asshole is evil, fuck Amazon!!

They’re burning the wrong Amazon, light Jeff Bezos on fire!! :onfire:



Can you even start for less than $14-15 at Amazon?
If your skill set is still entry level position at Amazon and you're past your mid 20s they are still your best option anyway.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 2
    #26468078 - 02/04/20 08:20 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
If the rules of the game change, we're all still playing the same game.

Which is not a zero-sum game.

If Bezos has, it doesn't mean you don't have.

Just means you haven't earned.




OK, let's play a game, but I make the rules.  Does that mean the game is fair for both players?  Absolutely not.

When it comes to making money, NOBODY wants a fair game because it's too difficult to always win. I want to make the rules and then change the rules when needed.  That isn't free market capitalism, it's crony capitalism.

Bezos and his money comes at someone's expense, it has too.  You can't have people with hundreds of billions of dollars and a middle class with strong wages, benefits and purchasing power. It doesn't work that way.


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: qman]
    #26468133 - 02/04/20 09:26 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

But qman,

You, me, and Bezos are already in a game. Bezos has taken the lead it seems. I don't know where you stand, but I'm either in 2nd or 3rd place.

None of the 3 of us made any of of the rules because... well we haven't gone to Washington....yet. Sounds like Bezos has sent emissaries or lobbyists or someone to push for changes in his favor. I'm not familiar with the goings on, but you say so I thinks. Maybe he's thrown some money around in exchange for consideration of what is good for Amazon or even his own personal accounts or taxes.

Has any of that had even the slightest impact on yours or my abilities to also go out and build an empire of our own? Only if you think economics is a zero-sum game.

Zero sum means if Bezos earns a dollar, either you lose a dollar, I lose a dollar, or we both lose an amount that totals a dollar to Bezos.

That is not the case in economics! That is not the case with Jeff's fat stacks.

We have not earned less money and are not disadvantaged in any way because he earned more. Same holds true for his employees.

If there is a bottomless bucket of icecream.. why you trippin because some people want to try to eat all the icecream? Who cares! You can try to eat all the icecream, too and there's even enough for me to do the same... in a non-zero-sum game.

It is called creating wealth.

And there is no bottom to the bucket because nothing is perfect. There will always be more and more complex problems to solve that will have greater and greater rewards for those that solve them.

Along with nothing being perfect, nothing is fair either when all things are considered. I won't speak to what this class or that class and what they should or shouldn't have because if you have a refrigerator, a computer, and a cell phone.. you've got a higher standard of living than like 90% of people who were alive 100 years ago. I don't think I know a single person without these things. I've even seen homeless folks with cell phones and tablets.

How is all that possible if Jeff Bezos has all the money?

How is that possible if this is a zero-sum game?

:fedora:


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Invisible1234go
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 2
    #26468212 - 02/04/20 10:09 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

susurrador said:
If there is a bottomless bucket of icecream.. why you trippin because some people want to try to eat all the icecream? Who cares!





Because there are too many starving children around the world who don't even have access to the bucket.  Sounds greedy, and self-absorbed.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: 1234go] * 2
    #26468233 - 02/04/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Exactly. If youre a Billionaire and do not do any kind of charity foundation, then youre just a selfish asshole.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26468237 - 02/04/20 10:22 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
You would think that’s enough to pay his employess a non-bullshit wage.  That asshole is evil, fuck Amazon!!

They’re burning the wrong Amazon, light Jeff Bezos on fire!! :onfire:



Can you even start for less than $14-15 at Amazon?
If your skill set is still entry level position at Amazon and you're past your mid 20s they are still your best option anyway.



I don’t know, but I do know that he treats his employees like shit..


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Offlinesusurrador
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Amanita86]
    #26468257 - 02/04/20 10:35 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
Quote:

susurrador said:
If there is a bottomless bucket of icecream.. why you trippin because some people want to try to eat all the icecream? Who cares!





Because there are too many starving children around the world who don't even have access to the bucket.  Sounds greedy, and self-absorbed.




A quick Googling reveals Amazon has 750,000 employees.

How many of those people do you think have kids and are able to feed them because Amazon exists and is crushing their game?

I mean, Bezos is putting food in over a million mouths every day just by employing 750,000 people.

I'm not buying any starving kid bs personally.

Not that there do not exist starving children, but what about the other 7.6 billion people on this planet? How many are they feeding on the daily? Not as many as they could be I bet. Surely not as many as Amazon Jeff.


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