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The Influence
Free Sheeks



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: ichugwindex]
#26469046 - 02/04/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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ichugwindex said: As someone who has never held more than 5k at once in my hand at one time...fuck you Bezos. Distribute his assets amongst the most poor.
Well that answers my question.
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ichugwindex
Dex



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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence] 1
#26469053 - 02/04/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well the value of the dollar is already in the gutter with no adjustments for wages so to answer your question. Fuck rich people
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,107
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
#26469061 - 02/04/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Billionaires are the most mobile people in the world. If they don't like the tax laws in a country they can easily get citizenship in any other country of their choosing. Or lobby a more friendly country. They can relocate their corporate headquarters and never look back. Like Roman Polanski, but with more monies.
Peter Schiff doesn't even have that much money and he moved to Puerto Rico for it's easy tax laws. You don't even have to leave the USA to not pay any taxes on investment income, you can just move to hurricane alley for 182 days a year.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
#26469087 - 02/04/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ahab McBathsalts said:
Quote:
The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Billionaires are the most mobile people in the world. If they don't like the tax laws in a country they can easily get citizenship in any other country of their choosing. Or lobby a more friendly country. They can relocate their corporate headquarters and never look back. Like Roman Polanski, but with more monies.
Peter Schiff doesn't even have that much money and he moved to Puerto Rico for it's easy tax laws. You don't even have to leave the USA to not pay any taxes on investment income, you can just move to hurricane alley for 182 days a year.
I understand that; Amazon paid zero dollars in federal income tax last year. That's not what I was getting at. If you raise wages on a high enough scale you will just have more people buying more things which in turn will drive down supply which increases demand causing a rise in prices? Again I'm not quite sure that's how it would go down and if I'm wrong I would like a rational explanation of why. Not just "Rich people give all your money away cause I'm broke" You obviously have not had that reply, but others have.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
#26469092 - 02/04/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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What if, the prices didn't go up, and that way the companies still make money, just not as much? All (or most) of the workers are happy and can afford 4 tires instead of one. (This will NEVER happen, I know)
Corporate greed, it really drives itself no matter what "entity" is behind it. I understand it a bit, but I don't have to like it.
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Amanita86]
#26469108 - 02/04/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Amanita86 said: Well all that other stuff ya’ll are saying aside, it would be nice if Amazon as well as other giant companies walking away with the level of profit they are would treat their employees better. They’re helping make a hard life impossible.
It would also be nice if in addition to them helping in that regard the healthcare system wasn’t doing essentially the same thing. Not everyone needs Lambo’s but everyone should be able to see a doctor and go to the dentist etc. Humans are capable of entirely too much at this point for there to be people being told “tough shit” when it comes to their health.
That’s really all my point was.
I agree.
I work 60-70 hours a week when there is work. The gf and I were just talking about it while doing our taxes. There is no reason that 2 adults working full time should be able to live better then we do. We don't want anything fancy.
My mom just got priced out of her home and it's happening to a lot of single mothers here. With the wage hike. Nobody waited even 5 minutes to hike the price of everything more then the new minimum wage actually is. It's insane.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Enjoywho]
#26469119 - 02/04/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Between the 2 of us we made 40k. So where is all that money? We definitely don't own a whole lot. It's in other peoples pockets for bills.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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ichugwindex
Dex



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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Enjoywho]
#26469120 - 02/04/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well that's just selfish since all these mega corporations were doing fine before this "wage hike" that I have yet to see
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: ichugwindex]
#26469127 - 02/04/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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ichugwindex said: Well that's just selfish since all these mega corporations were doing fine before this "wage hike" that I have yet to see
I need to get into a union again. It's nice to be a protected worker.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,107
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
#26469135 - 02/04/20 07:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Influence said:
Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said:
Quote:
The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Billionaires are the most mobile people in the world. If they don't like the tax laws in a country they can easily get citizenship in any other country of their choosing. Or lobby a more friendly country. They can relocate their corporate headquarters and never look back. Like Roman Polanski, but with more monies.
Peter Schiff doesn't even have that much money and he moved to Puerto Rico for it's easy tax laws. You don't even have to leave the USA to not pay any taxes on investment income, you can just move to hurricane alley for 182 days a year.
I understand that; Amazon paid zero dollars in federal income tax last year. That's not what I was getting at. If you raise wages on a high enough scale you will just have more people buying more things which in turn will drive down supply which increases demand causing a rise in prices? Again I'm not quite sure that's how it would go down and if I'm wrong I would like a rational explanation of why. Not just "Rich people give all your money away cause I'm broke" You obviously have not had that reply, but others have.
Increasing the minimum wage just excludes people from the work force. It sets an artificial floor. If you are lazy and unreliable with no skills, you might only be worth $4.00/hr to an employer. If the government says minimum wage is $12, you are getting shit canned and put on food stamps. Some price increases will be passed on to consumers through higher prices, but some labour will be replaced with machines and unemployment will increase.

There is a micro economics 100 level chart, straight out of textbook.
A good example would be a car wash. If you live in an area with no illegal immigrants (assuming illegals don't follow minimum wage laws) and high minimum wages you probably have those "touchless" car washes everywhere. If you live in a place with lots of illegal workers, you can probably get 4 dudes to hand wash your car for just a few bucks more, but the gas station or whatever doesn't have to pay 250K for big electrical and water upgrades for the car wash equipment. You are paying less than minimum wage for low productivity people to have full employment.
Same can be said for developing countries where it would be common for middle income people to have nannies, gardeners, cooks and stuff. Not like obscenely rich people, but just where a middle income family can afford to hire low productivity people to cook, clean, or whatever. In developed countries it might not be as common for the average person, you just buy a Roomba vaccumm and get take out once and while.
Bezos wants to get rid of the minimally productive people that drive forklifts and shit as soon as possible and replace them with people that fix and maintain robots, develop and program assembly lines, and other higher skilled more productive people. He'll pay much higher wages, but he'll higher much less people.
I got examples for days, but fuck it, I think I made my point clear.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
#26469142 - 02/04/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yep, there seems to be no doubt that robots are in the works for replacing several of those forklift type tasks and many others.
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Ahab McBathsalts] 1
#26469146 - 02/04/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ya we're all just going to be unemployed. The only job in college should be how to fix and maintain robots. Then we all can fight over the 3-4 jobs it takes to run every 10000 square foot factory.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,107
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Enjoywho] 1
#26469158 - 02/04/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
#26469166 - 02/04/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Raising the minimum wage wouldn’t cause inflation any more than a tax break for the middle class or even more people working longer hours and getting overtime.
If people have more to spend they might decide to spend it on a specific item. That means demand has gone up. If supply doesn’t go up as well the price of the item will increase. It’s nothing to get hysterical about.
Using the fear of inflation as a justification for our current wealth disparity is bizarre. Taking your logic to the extreme would be like saying we need a stagnant economy and negative growth to keep prices down. If people don’t buy shit businesses fail. If poor people had some discretionary income goods and services would flow a bit more and that’s good for the economy.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#26469178 - 02/04/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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Increasing the minimum wage just excludes people from the work force. It sets an artificial floor. If you are lazy and unreliable with no skills, you might only be worth $4.00/hr to an employer. If the government says minimum wage is $12, you are getting shit canned and put on food stamps.
That’s not true. You’re not paid based on the value you add to the company. You’re paid the minimum you can possible be paid by supply and demand. If the company can phase you out they will. It doesn’t matter if it saves them $12 an hour or three. Since you’re only going to be there if you’re needed the only thing that makes sense is for workers to collectively demand a living wage. And if you can’t live on it what does it matter if it disappears? A company that can’t afford to pay living wages shouldn’t exist or the entrepreneurs should just do the manual labor themselves since it’s so easy.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 1
#26469195 - 02/04/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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So many of these arguments sound exactly like what my $9/hr employees say Especially the ones that do the worst job 😂
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,107
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#26469196 - 02/04/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's a well developed economic concept. There are hundreds of scholarly articles about it.
Here is literally the first one I found.
https://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2130&context=articles
Quote:
This article summarizes the results of a more technical paper [1] on the unemployment effects of a minimum wage or other institutionally-imposed wage floors. By definition, a “wage floor” is the lowest wage that any employer may pay or that any worker may receive. The wage floor may be caused by unions engaging in collective bargaining and raising the wages of their members; governments paying their employees higher wages than they might earn elsewhere; or some other institutional intervention. The type of wage floor analysed in this article is a minimum wage set by the Government above the level that would otherwise have been determined by supply and demand.
This one introduces the concept of elasticity to employment. Some people like doctors would be highly in-elastic. Others wouldn't be.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: bodhisatta]
#26469204 - 02/04/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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bodhisatta said: So many of these arguments sound exactly like what my $9/hr employees say Especially the ones that do the worst job 😂
Why is your business so shitty you can’t get decent employees?
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#26469208 - 02/04/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Raising the minimum wage wouldn’t cause inflation any more than a tax break for the middle class or even more people working longer hours and getting overtime.
If people have more to spend they might decide to spend it on a specific item. That means demand has gone up. If supply doesn’t go up as well the price of the item will increase. It’s nothing to get hysterical about.
Using the fear of inflation as a justification for our current wealth disparity is bizarre. Taking your logic to the extreme would be like saying we need a stagnant economy and negative growth to keep prices down. If people don’t buy shit businesses fail. If poor people had some discretionary income goods and services would flow a bit more and that’s good for the economy.
Dont feel hysterical in the least.I was asking a question to see if my understanding was correct or incorrect. Thank you for trying to address that. My point of inflation was made by another poster when he referenced a wage hike and then increased prices immediately for common goods. That's exactly what I am proposing would happen and in someone's region did happen.
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feldman114
Stragler


Registered: 09/06/19
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: The Influence]
#26469209 - 02/04/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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The Influence said:
Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said:
Quote:
The Influence said: So if all these billionaires paid people more money no one thinks that would devalue the dollar and or drive prices up...leaving blue collar workers in the same position as before?
I only took a semester of college macroeconomics so maybe I'm not the most intelligent on the subject. But my basic understanding of inflation as well as supply and demand tell me that's the way it would be 
Billionaires are the most mobile people in the world. If they don't like the tax laws in a country they can easily get citizenship in any other country of their choosing. Or lobby a more friendly country. They can relocate their corporate headquarters and never look back. Like Roman Polanski, but with more monies.
Peter Schiff doesn't even have that much money and he moved to Puerto Rico for it's easy tax laws. You don't even have to leave the USA to not pay any taxes on investment income, you can just move to hurricane alley for 182 days a year.
I understand that; Amazon paid zero dollars in federal income tax last year. That's not what I was getting at. If you raise wages on a high enough scale you will just have more people buying more things which in turn will drive down supply which increases demand causing a rise in prices? Again I'm not quite sure that's how it would go down and if I'm wrong I would like a rational explanation of why. Not just "Rich people give all your money away cause I'm broke" You obviously have not had that reply, but others have.
The problem with intro Econ classes is they all use models based on perfect competition. In the US economy, increased wages would not decrease the supply of most goods because producers can scale very quickly. Plus, we already buy 95% of goods at the World Price, so increased demand wouldn’t raise prices. In fact, increased demand would skyrocket any modern, globalized economy.
Basically, in a perfectly Efficient Economy, raising wages increases prices. But our economy is so skewed now that increasing wages for the working class would actually bring us closer to an Efficient Economy with perfect competition.
@ahab, you’re using an unemployment model to illustrate a point about raising wages? Why not this one?

A raise in the minimum wage predominantly benefits low-wage workers, precisely those most likely to put additional income directly back into the economy, kick starting a virtuous cycle of greater demand for goods and services, job growth, and increased productivity.
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