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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26494963 - 02/20/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The data wasn’t even collected by EPI, so what’s your point? If I find you 2 other sources for this info, will you consent that a livable wage would benefit the economy?


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26494976 - 02/20/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

US citizens have the 3rd highest purchasing power in the world. Just slightly below the Swiss

And for some reason you find that a great injustice?



If you increase my income by 10% without making sure the things I purchase stay on the price-level from before my income increase, how does it have a positive effect on my purchasing power.

Where the money for the raise in income comes from doesnt even matter yet.

If I have just enough money to buy one loaf of bread a day, and my salary increases to the point that I can buy two loafs of bread a day, my purchasing power has increased. But this only works if the baker doesnt raise his prices.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Offlinesusurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 6 hours
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26494978 - 02/20/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The one graph lists its source as the EPI.

The endnotes are at least half EPI or EPI member publications.

Do you do more than skim what you link to?

I will consent that the term livable wage is arbitrary and a socialist idea.

I will further consent that I don't have any faith in socialism.


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador] * 1
    #26494990 - 02/20/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I also wonder what livable wage means?

Netflix account
Iphone 6
Ounce of weed a month
Car
3 dogs and a cat


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Offlinesusurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 6 hours
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26494993 - 02/20/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The economy is like an ocean.

Some boats will have more bad weather than good.

Some boats will be the opposite.

Most boats will have decent weather most of the time.

You're better off learning the nature of the ocean and steering accordingly.

Or you can try to control the ocean.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26495000 - 02/20/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
US citizens have the 3rd highest purchasing power in the world. Just slightly below the Swiss

And for some reason you find that a great injustice?



If you increase my income by 10% without making sure the things I purchase stay on the price-level from before my income increase, how does it have a positive effect on my purchasing power.

Where the money for the raise in income comes from doesnt even matter yet.

If I have just enough money to buy one loaf of bread a day, and my salary increases to the point that I can buy two loafs of bread a day, my purchasing power has increased. But this only works if the baker doesnt raise his prices.




There’s a hole in your reasoning - prices don’t have to go up by the same amount. Instead of increasing prices, companies can simply decrease their profits.

Look, let’s say Bezos makes $2B a year selling his ass on the corner for $5/BJ, while paying his pimp
$1B a year.
One day his pimp slaps him up and says “I want $1.5B so I can afford mo jewels” and Bezos ok’s it.
He starts charging $6.25 for BJ’s to compensate half of his new costs, and makes $1.75B at the end.



I see your point about incentive and admit it’s a good one. That’s why we need Bernie to give them incentive (staying out of jail) to decrease corporate profits. Maybe the rate of price hikes should be regulated across major industries, or maybe a price ceiling for certain goods will be enough - we won’t know until we pull the bandaid off.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #26495004 - 02/20/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
I also wonder what livable wage means?

Netflix account
Iphone 6
Ounce of weed a month
Car
3 dogs and a cat




Omg!!! Thank you!!!!
That right there is EXACTLY the kind of questions that stimulate constructive dialogue. It’s something everyone should be thinking about.

I think it should be calculated according to the needs of the poorest of the poor. How much does a person need if they have nothing?


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Offlinesusurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
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Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495031 - 02/20/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Therein lies the problem. It is completely arbitrary depending on the person you talk to.

One person needs food. The other needs a house for their 10 kids. The other needs cocaine and hookers. The other needs a yacht. The other needs to be handed everything. The other needs medical bills paid. Another person needs all of these things.

You're trying to do the job of the economy. The economy is a natural system that will make all of it's own decisions and set prices and wages and wealth caps and etc. just by operating with a fixed amount of resources.

If resources were unlimited there would be no economy because we could all have anything we wanted.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26495041 - 02/20/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What I said is look at the one who’s most in need. Determine how much he needs to make for the wage to be livable, and presto - that’s our livable wage.

That’s just my take though lol. There’s plenty of smarter people with better ideas on how to figure it out.

It’s certainly not arbitrary.

ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.


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Offlinesusurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 6 hours
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495059 - 02/20/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Unless you're talking about what a person physiologically needs to survive, it is indeed arbitrary to talk about what a person 'needs'.

Ask 10 people what they need in their life right now and you'll get 10 different answers that are literally based on random choice or personal whim rather than any reason or system.

I mean, I literally nailed the verbiage there.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26495070 - 02/20/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I just poaster the definition of arbitrary.
Please tell me what part of what I suggested is “based on random choice or whim”.

It’s based on the needs of the poorest person in the country.

Physiological needs are only 1 of many basic human NEEDS, as defined in economics and taught in Marketing 101 (literally)



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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Registered: 01/11/15
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Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495072 - 02/20/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Why yes, a higher minimum wage WOULD be better



lol, ok. I see you're pulling a FakeSunRa now and tapping out intellectually. Pleasure talking with you.




You love making your accusations...

I’ll take your poasts seriously when you read the thread. For now, you’re just regurgitating points that were already talked to death. It doesn’t make for interesting discussion, sorry...



lol I have been respondong to all your points. you have been ignoring mine this whole time.

why dont you explain to me why consumption or disposable income per capita have gone up since the 70s?


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495074 - 02/20/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

There are products on the market now that are able to satisfy all of these needs.
We choose the cheapest option to fulfil each need, add up their costs, and find out how much $ the poorest of us NEED


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Offlinefeldman114
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Registered: 09/06/19
Posts: 3,365
Loc: Bravos
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26495078 - 02/20/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Why yes, a higher minimum wage WOULD be better



lol, ok. I see you're pulling a FakeSunRa now and tapping out intellectually. Pleasure talking with you.




You love making your accusations...

I’ll take your poasts seriously when you read the thread. For now, you’re just regurgitating points that were already talked to death. It doesn’t make for interesting discussion, sorry...



lol I have been respondong to all your points. you have been ignoring mine this whole time.

why dont you explain to me why consumption or disposable income per capita have gone up since the 70s?




Read. The. Thread.
The answer to your question has been thoroughly discussed. I’m sorry, but rehashing shit for your benefit has 0 intellectual/entertainment value to me.


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Offlinesusurrador
Psychedelic Cowboy


Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 6 hours
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495081 - 02/20/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Actually I think that's defined as Maslow's hierarchy of needs, specifically.

But notice how physiological needs are the only needs we can reliably and easily measure?

How do you measure love and distribute that proportionately? Or fairly?

I don't think Maslow's model defines human needs in a way that can be translated into providing better lives through economic regulation.

Again because it includes aspects that are not measurable and hold differing levels of importance for people on a case by case basis.

Can't build successful policy measuring things that are difficult or impossible to measure.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26495084 - 02/20/20 12:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Instead of increasing prices, companies can simply decrease their profits.

Voila! (this will NEVER EVER happen, it goes against capitalism at the core, even though this would solve many problems for many people).

Greed is the reigning king, and no matter how many points are made, there is no morals in money or greed. It's fuck everything and everybody at all costs to get more and more and more, period.


--------------------


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Offlinesusurrador
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Registered: 03/31/19
Posts: 1,432
Loc: SW US Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 6 hours
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26495090 - 02/20/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Instead of increasing prices, companies can simply decrease their profits.

Voila! (this will NEVER EVER happen, it goes against capitalism at the core, even though this would solve many problems for many people).

Greed is the reigning king, and no matter how many points are made, there is no morals in money or greed. It's fuck everything and everybody at all costs to get more and more and more, period.




That is not at all true. Are you greedy in this way? If not, how can you say this about money in general being a user of money yourself?

Edit- money itself is immoral. It doesn't think or act independently. It is just a tool in the hands of people who possess a range of morals.

Edit 2- Also wanted to add that money is a result of large scale cooperation between individuals, groups, and entities. Money couldn't happen if it was as inherently evil and anti-human as it is being described.


--------------------
"If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."



Edited by susurrador (02/20/20 12:36 PM)


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
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Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495092 - 02/20/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

why did you jump all over the compensation point but not touch the other two points that come as part of a package? clearly the compenastion point clearly had enough value for you to address. now you gave up on arguing that and you never even touched the increase in consumption or disposable income per capita.

why dont you point me to the page where I could find the relevant discussion instead of telling me to read an over 20 page thread that ive already posted in like half of?


Edited by BANANA.MAN (02/20/20 12:31 PM)


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson
Male
Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: feldman114]
    #26495100 - 02/20/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
I also wonder what livable wage means?

Netflix account
Iphone 6
Ounce of weed a month
Car
3 dogs and a cat




Omg!!! Thank you!!!!
That right there is EXACTLY the kind of questions that stimulate constructive dialogue. It’s something everyone should be thinking about.

I think it should be calculated according to the needs of the poorest of the poor. How much does a person need if they have nothing?



haha you dont address anything. you complain about a drop in living standards, when people point to ways in which the living standard has increased you get sarsatic and intellectually tap out.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (02/20/20 12:35 PM)


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: Jeff Bezos' estimated personal wealth, as of this morning, is about $129,500,000,000.00 [Re: susurrador]
    #26495112 - 02/20/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Instead of increasing prices, companies can simply decrease their profits.


This would have to be a "trickle up theory" and would never work, but it would, but it won't happen. It's so simple. How much does a person really need when they have excessive amounts of everything?:shrug:


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