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InvisibleNekai
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Registered: 10/23/19
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Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian
    #26466954 - 02/03/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

from Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian

"The Apollonian and Dionysian is a philosophical and literary concept and dichotomy/dialectic, based on Apollo and Dionysus in Greek mythology. Some Western philosophical and literary figures have invoked this dichotomy in critical and creative works, most notably Friedrich Nietzsche and later followers.

In Greek mythology, Apollo and Dionysus are both sons of Zeus. Apollo is the god of the sun, of rational thinking and order, and appeals to logic, prudence and purity. Dionysus is the god of wine and dance, of irrationality and chaos, and appeals to emotions and instincts. The Ancient Greeks did not consider the two gods to be opposites or rivals, although they were often entwined by nature."


I'm wondering what members of these boards use psychedelics mostly for, for the values of Apollo or that of Dionysus.

Before I introduce any bias I'd like to see how the community fares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus

Please educate yourself via the links before voting
Under who does your philosophy of use most relate to ?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (02/03/20 11:49 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: Nekai]
    #26467805 - 02/04/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I am not responding because this particular dichotomy because others have posited this particular dualism PLUS a third type, the Odysseans, in one context. A very famous hypnotist, the late great Herbert Spiegel, M.D., saw that there were 3 types of hypnotic subjects. In his book Trance and Treatment: Clinical Uses of Hypnosis he writes:

"Odysseans seem to be less prone to imbalance; that is, to overemphasize either affect or cognition as being solely important. They respond to questions about interpersonal control by saying that it depends on the situation...Odysseans view themselves as moderately responsible and have no extreme preference for sensory mode, either visual or tactile. Likewise, they take pleasure in both developing and implementing new ideas and do not clearly show preference for either oral or written language....In relation to the Dionysians, who can be characterized as changing themselves to absorb directions and new ideas from their environment, and the Apollonians, who have rather firm rational standards to which they bend their environment, the Odysseans may be best seen as a group of individuals for whom the problem of changing in response to the world around them is especially important....The outstanding characteristic of people in this mid-range group is a periodic fluctuation throughout their lives between intense activity and contemplative withdrawal from activity..." - Trance and Treatment, page 102.

Similarly, I would venture that there is a third of mid-range of trippers. While alcohol has certainly brought out the Dionysian in me, it has been relatively rare for psychedelics to have done that for me. Although getting naked with 80+ people in a legal hot pot at Yellowstone National Park during the Perseid meteor shower while tripping on Windowpane LSD was something I did in my 20s, not my 60s. The 1970s like the 1960s were WAY more conducive to Dionysian excess as was my age in the early 20s. I am far more contemplative now anyway and trips will now be intensifications of my Apollonian contemplative side.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (02/06/20 08:10 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26468007 - 02/04/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I am glad you added that, and to which god did Dionysis most appeal? Athena?
If so then, I think I am an Athenian. or Apollonian & Athenian. Although a good helping of Dionysis here and there just to have a debauched escapade when too tight.

of course a weakness for Aphrodite pervades everything (and this may be Apollonian).


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Invisibleextreme
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26472104 - 02/06/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

My philosophy professor posed this dichotomy on the first day of class like 8 years ago.  I just reconnected with him recently.  Also, by I guess a pretty large coincidence, I started thinking about Apollo and Dionysus again very recently too.  I LITERALLY drew a picture of them like, yesterday.  BTW I make horrible drawings like once every two or three years.  Weird lol.  I actually mean literally in the literal sense here it's really pretty funny lol.

My gut was to pick Apollo but I figured other people would think that way too, so I picked Dionysus :hehehe:

PS Carl Jung I think elaborated on this a little bit more probably pulling from Nietzsche and adding his own interpretation.  I've been studying them both a lot lately as I'm fascinated by the collective unconscious/archetypes and all that, and trying to find meaning, etc.  Anyway.

So I just flipped a coin and picked Dionysus in what I would call a shroomy way.  That's the board we're on after all.  Shrooms almost FORCE you to laugh at anything and not take things too seriously.  Dionysus is in part the god of intoxication and merriment among other things, and I think that applies pretty well.  But like I said to a degree this is a coin flip, because my high dose LSD experiences aren't necessarily fun laughing trips but are deeply introspective and insightful.

I realize 7 grams of mushrooms vs. 1 hit of weak LSD could probably reverse my opinions on this - they're ultimately more similar than they are different.  It's just "food" for thought.  I do find, in general, shrooms to be on the slightly more easy-going end of the spectrum of psychedelics though, with LSD towards the other end, but a lot of that could be just personal experiences, dosage, set, setting, all that.  I guess I'm just saying, with all things (relative dose) being equal... that's how I'd split the hairs.

You pick :tongue2:  I just found this post oddly relevant to my recent thoughts... I go on Shroomery like once a month these days so the chances of me even seeing this post, at the same time I'm thinking about this dichotomy, is interesting - to say the least.


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Invisibleextreme
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: extreme]
    #26472110 - 02/06/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Addendum - low dose psychedelics: Dionysus.  High dose: Apollo.  That might be more accurate, in my opinion :smile:


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Invisibleextreme
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: Nekai]
    #26472117 - 02/06/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


I'm wondering what members of these boards use psychedelics mostly for, for the values of Apollo or that of Dionysus.





Sorry if I avoided the ultimate question you were asking.  Personally I like diving in deep and haven't had a recreational (like partying or whatever, not contemplating life but enjoying myself) type trip in forever.  In that case Apollo :crazy:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26472722 - 02/06/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am glad you added that, and to which god did Dionysis most appeal? Athena?
If so then, I think I am an Athenian. or Apollonian & Athenian. Although a good helping of Dionysis here and there just to have a debauched escapade when too tight.

of course a weakness for Aphrodite pervades everything (and this may be Apollonian).





I found Dr. Jean Shinoda-Bolen's book very illuminating about the extent to which the various archetypes in Greek god garb inform me. I am primarily a Hermes man, but I have Apollo, Hephaistus, and yes, Dionysus operating with regularity with little to no Ares or Zeus actively manifesting (I'm nobody's boss and nobody's daddy).



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: extreme]
    #26472765 - 02/06/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

extreme said:
Quote:


I'm wondering what members of these boards use psychedelics mostly for, for the values of Apollo or that of Dionysus.





Sorry if I avoided the ultimate question you were asking.  Personally I like diving in deep and haven't had a recreational (like partying or whatever, not contemplating life but enjoying myself) type trip in forever.  In that case Apollo :crazy:





The original dichotomy is a commonly posed one, Dionysian vs. Apollonian, but with psychedelics it is not that black and white. Dionysus is also god of madness as well as intoxication which is a real threat from high doses. Hermes for example in the messenger who traverses both the celestial and the infernal realms mythologically. The winged sandals and helmet suggest transcendence while the serpent wand suggests chthonic forces. Apollo, the Sun, best represents the light of reason whereas Hermes can easily be seen as embodying the transrational, transpersonal domain as well as the non-rational pre-conscious dynamics.

The simple caduceus of Hermes was elaborated into the caduceus of mercury by the Romans which became the symbol of the medical profession in the USA (a mistake), but that symbol may have been informed by Indian influences,  the staff is the Staff of Brahma or the Sushumna, the twin serpents symbolize the Serpent Power Kundalini as Solar (Pingala) and Ida (Lunar) pathways to the twin-petalled Ajna chakra (wings) surmounted by the sphere (Sahasrara).



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (02/23/20 11:53 PM)


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InvisibleNekai
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26500332 - 02/23/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I look at the dichotomy almost the same as I view the yin yang - creator/destroyer philosophy.

It's really interesting stuff, those ancient mythos.


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All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: Nekai] * 1
    #26500731 - 02/24/20 12:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Nekai said:
I look at the dichotomy almost the same as I view the yin yang - creator/destroyer philosophy.

It's really interesting stuff, those ancient mythos.





The ancient myths exist in the psyche of present day humanity as well. They are archetypal images as it were and form the very infrastructure of the psyche. The archetype of the Feminine for example has both positive and negative representation as Erich Neumann described it his his book The Great Mother.



The same kind of analysis can be applied to every known archetype, the archetypal images that dreams and visions reveal, and the individual real-life individuals who manifest the archetype. For example, The King is an archetype no less prominent than The Feminine and similarly, there are positive and negative poles with a rational, wise, benevolent leader at the + pole and an irrational, foolish, malevolent ruler at the - pole of the archetype (similar to the divisions in the diagram of The Feminine). Right now, Trump represents the negative archetype of ruler embodying Shadow elements galore, the cruel and evil underbelly of a despot whose fiats are destructive of children, adults, animals, and the very air, water, and earth of our biosphere. Archetype operate in individuals, tribes, ethnicities, cultures, and whole nations. Humanity has a death-motive, Thanatos in the Greek, and hopefully it will not destroy all life on this planet through the activation of Trump or a similar Mad King.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleHarri

Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 1,452
Re: Psychedelic Use - Apollonian & Dionysian [Re: Nekai]
    #28382890 - 07/02/23 05:47 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Interesting thread, Apollo seems to be more the moderate type and Dionysus being the more liberal, freeform kind of philosophy, letting the wild side of nature take the wheel.

Good post! Thanks.


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