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N0Tmushroom2THINK
NOTmushroom2THINK



Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 456
Loc: Vancouver Island, British...
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Rhododendrons & Grayanotoxins
#26465995 - 02/02/20 09:27 PM (4 years, 15 days ago) |
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I'm curious about Rhododendrons and Grayanotoxins, and I was wondering if anyone has attempted make their own mad honey with Rhododendron pollen,nectar, or perhaps made a tea with the flowers, leaves, and stems. If so how did you do it(Method of consumption), how much did you take(Dose), what did you experience(Effects), and how long did it affect you(Length of intoxication).
Did you experience any common clinical symptoms including various cardiovascular effects, nausea and vomiting, and a change in consciousness. The cardiovascular effects may include hypotension (low blood pressure) and various cardiac rhythm disorders such as sinus bradycardia(slow regular heart rhythm), bradyarrhythmia (slow irregular heart rhythm) and partial or complete atrioventricular block. Other early-onset symptoms may include diplopiaand blurred vision, dizziness, hypersalivation, perspiration, weakness and paresthesia in the extremities and around the mouth. In higher doses, symptoms can include loss of coordination, severe and progressive muscular weakness. The cardiovascular effects may include hypotension (low blood pressure) and various cardiac rhythm disorders such as sinus bradycardia(slow regular heart rhythm), bradyarrhythmia (slow irregular heart rhythm) and partial or complete atrioventricular block.
If you enjoyed the experience, would you recommend trying mad honey for anyone who has been interested in it or knows nothing about it at all.
I have had a Rhododendron bushes in my backyard for many years and I never payed attention to them until I rewatched the Vice documentary on mad honey and was like I have a Rhododendron, I wonder if I could make my own mad honey from pollen or nectar, or maybe even make a tea from the flowers,leaves, and stems. I have no intention of poisoning myself obviously, I don't have anyways of measuring if their is any Grayanotoxins or how much their is, as I have no equipment to do so. I wanna know if anyone has done what I'm thinking and has done so safely without harm, and won't do anything till I here feedback from people who have done a bioassay themselves and lived haha.
This is what I have in my yard, It is pretty much a small tree as It's taller than me(6'0"). Currently went and took photos, I noticed dead flowers so I might be to late and I'll have to wait till it blooms again. I don't know what species of Rhododendron, I think it might be Rhododendron degronianum but I'll have to wait till it blooms to get a better idea of what it actually is.



Here is some info quick for anyone wanting to know a little more.
Grayanotoxins - Grayanotoxins are a group of closely related neurotoxins named after Leucothoe grayana, a plant native to Japan originally named for 19th century American botanist Asa Gray. Grayanotoxin I (grayanotaxane-3,5,6,10,14,16-hexol 14-acetate) is also known as andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol, rhodotoxin and asebotoxin. Grayanotoxins are produced by Rhododendron species and other plants in the family Ericaceae. Honey made from the nectar and so containing pollen of these plants also contains grayanotoxins and is commonly referred to as mad honey. Consumption of the plant or any of its secondary products, including mad honey, can cause a rare poisonous reaction called grayanotoxin poisoning, mad honey disease, honey intoxication, or rhododendron poisoning. It is most frequently produced and consumed in regions of Nepal and Turkey as a recreational drug and traditional medicine.
Grayanotoxins are produced by plants in the family Ericaceae, specifically members of the genera Rhododendron, Pieris, Agarista and Kalmia. The genus Rhododendron alone encompasses over 750 species that grow around the world in parts of Europe, North America, Japan, Nepal and Turkey. They can grow at a variety of altitudes ranging from sea level to more than three kilometers above. While many of these species contain grayanotoxins, only a few contain significant levels. Species with high concentrations of grayanotoxins such as R. ponticum, R. flavum and R. luteum are most commonly found in Nepal and regions of Turkey bordering the Black. Nearly all parts of grayanotoxin-producing rhododendrons contain the molecule, including the stem, leaves, flower, pollen and nectar. Grayanotoxins can also be found in secondary plant products such as honey, labrador tea, cigarettes and herbal medicines.
-------------------- With mushrooms on the mind, you don't have mushroom to think. MUSH-LOVE
          
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Sempeur
Tourist

Registered: 01/12/20
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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I haven't had the opportunity to try it myself, but I've also watched that doc and am a hobby beekeeper. I've been thinking about putting some Rhododendron bushes around where I keep my hives (but keeping them in containers so I can control when the special honey gets made).
I have some cold-hardy Rhododendrons but I don't know if they're one of the species that makes a decent amount of Grayanotoxins. The ones I've heard of being used for this type of thing are Nepalese, Turkish, and Eastern European, so I'm not sure if they'd survive in my climate.
The other thing is apparently some strains of bee don't handle the toxins very well, the native bees around those places have adapted to handle it better... Mine probably not so much.
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Be strange, but don't be a stranger.
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N0Tmushroom2THINK
NOTmushroom2THINK



Registered: 04/08/19
Posts: 456
Loc: Vancouver Island, British...
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Rhododendrons & Grayanotoxins [Re: Sempeur]
#26483115 - 02/13/20 04:48 AM (4 years, 4 days ago) |
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Well I have some good news for your bees haha, I was doing a little bit of more research and I was watching The Drug Classroom's video on the short history of Mad Honey. Half way through the video he talks about its modern history, and talks about Deli Bal(Local Turkish word for mad honey) and Miel Fou(toxic honey known from the west or crazy honey) and showed a picture of it. So I Googled it and found their website and it can be found on Amazon as well, so if you don't want to put your bees at risk or gamble with the dosaging due to not knowing how much Grayanotoxins they collected and have concentrated into their honey. As one teaspoon from one batch and another teaspoon from a different batch of honey could vary greatly in Grayanotoxin concentration and could be the difference from a trip to a toxic poisoning, but Atropine would be good a thing to look into if you're interested in consuming mad honey as it can help with Grayanotoxin treatment by helping normalize your heart rate and blood pressure.
https://www.miel-fou.com https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084RN7RTQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=deli+bal+mad+honey&qid=1581585464&sprefix=Deli+Bal+&sr=8-3
Growing up I have always noticed bees drinking nectar and collecting pollen from the flowers of my Rhododendron bush in my backyard. I never have noticed the bees dying or becoming ill from the flowers but they probably are immune or able to handle the toxins naturally, I wonder if I should put up a bee box or something for them near the bush.
Mad honey from the symptoms seems to not really be a true hallucinogen but merely produces a euphoric high or a drunken like state, similar to the effects of Cannabis or Alcohol. But Honey collected from plants in the Solanaceae family contain Tropane alkaloids, such as scopolamine, and hyoscyamine. They are found in various species, such as mandrake (Mandragora officinarum and M. autumnalis ), black henbane or stinking nightshade (Hyoscyamus niger), belladonna (Atropa belladonna), jimson weed or devil's snare (Datura stramonium) and Brugmansia , as well as many others in the family Solanaceae. At high doses of scopolamine and hyoscyamine it can be hallucinogenic and also deadly. Then there is solanine another alkaloid found in the Solanaceae family, a toxic glycoalkaloid with a bitter taste, it has the formula C45H73NO15. It is formed by the alkaloid solanidine with a carbohydrate side chain. It is found in leaves, fruit, and tubers of various Solanaceae such as the potato and tomato. Its production is thought to be an adaptive defence strategy against herbivores. Substance intoxicationfrom solanine is characterized by gastrointestinal disorders (diarrhoea, vomiting, abdominal pain) and neurological disorders (hallucinations and headache). The median lethal dose is between 2 and 5 mg/kg of body weight. Symptoms become manifest 8 to 12 hours after ingestion. The amount of these glycoalkaloids in potatoes, for example, varies significantly depending on environmental conditions during their cultivation, the length of storage, and the variety. The average glycoalkaloid concentration is 0.075 mg/g of potato. Solanine has occasionally been responsible for poisonings in people who ate berries from species such as Solanum nigrum or Solanum dulcamara, or green potatoes.
So you could try and cultivate some plants in the Solanaceae family to try and get your bees to produce some real hallucinogenic honey but at the end of the day the risks seem alot more then the rewards for both honeys, especially if you consume a little to much by mistake of not knowing the concentration of the active ingredients in your mad honey, be it Grayanotoxins or Alkaloids you wanna know as it could be life saving information. Best bet would be the Deli Bal(Miel Fou) mad honey from Turkey as it gets lab tested for its Grayanotoxin concentration in the honey, a little expensive though but a cool novelty item like the crystal skull vodka or something like that. If I had to recommend a dose it would be half a tbsp, a tablespoon is 21.25g so measure 10.625g or just eye it out liberally, as you can take more if needed but you can't take less once you've taken it.
-------------------- With mushrooms on the mind, you don't have mushroom to think. MUSH-LOVE
          
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