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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26465672 - 02/02/20 05:23 PM (4 years, 14 days ago)

This is dope! I'm diggin nova theory.

I'd like to see some more in depth explanations of the math involved with the cosmic jets and neutron star formation though; Not certain I'll understand it, but some math might help tie this all together for me.

and a clarification; so the supermassive neutron stars that were being mistaken for black holes; do they have intense enough gravity to stop light from escaping? as in would they still have an event horizon? but with GRB jets? or only if its being fed? trying to imagine what one of these might look like to the naked eye if there wasn't so much interference.

Haven't checked out the website yet, but getting to that too :strokebeard:


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Svetaketu] * 1
    #26465746 - 02/02/20 06:11 PM (4 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Svetaketu said:
This is dope! I'm diggin nova theory.




Thx for that.  Glad you see value in it. 

The site has all the good stuff, getting deeper into more aspects, puts more pieces together...  Like the math behind 'nova' (and 'Nova', for that matter): it's necessarily involved with the structural model of particles found on the "TIME" essay.  It's complicated, can't map that shit to a geometry.  I'll be sure to show my homework on that in due time, but I'm actually more caught up with my other life's work, NATURE and Way of the Cosmos.

No, the neutron stars would be visible  -black body spectrum, heavily red-shifted by gravity.  -same type of intrinsic redshift mentioned in the Big Bang Theory essay: NGC 7603, NGC 4319 type of stuff.  ...so no, no event horizon; that "horizon" is the mathematical equivalent of Schwarzschild Radius, which is the breaking point for particles -go there and we get nova. 

What's going to happen is supermassive neutron stars on the verge of breaking neutrons will sit idle until they get more mass...  as soon as they get more mass, they will force particles into S.radius, burn them as nova, and that's what powers the jets.


Edited by Rift Zone (02/03/20 07:39 AM)


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Onlinepacmanbreed
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26466706 - 02/03/20 11:52 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Was glad youve made a post about the human fundametal trait that i found this post. I really admire who challenge such theories.

although i havent fully Read it yet and need to digest it fully aswell its Not my expertise. i do find it intruiging based on the title they dont exist although observable if i am right? that they dont actually exist in our TIME but are remnants of TIME-SPACE based on the redshift?
Having mentioned it, while im on deep search I also finds the Bigbang and expansion a universal start as innacurately taught in schools in that thread(harsh/roughly composed).


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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26466771 - 02/03/20 12:39 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
We got black holes from Relativity; it was Carl Schwarzschild’s solutions of Relativity that gave us black holes.

Let’s step back from what Relativity says for a moment to recognize what Relativity is. Einstein’s Relativity was born of Galileo’s Relativity (better articulated by Newton… -that there are no privileged inertial frames of reference) mixed with the “constancy of light speed” (-that all observers see light to move at the same speed irrespective of relative motion); Lorentz transformations already existed at the time, the real innovation of Relativity was taking all observations seriously, making time and space malleable whereas in Newtonian Physics light speed would have to be… It’s not wrong! -The universe behaves just as Relativity says, to a reasonable extent.  It remains a profound and cherished innovation.  Still, let us make this very clear: Relativity is an outline of circumstances…the circumstance of no privileged reference frames mixed with the circumstance of light moving at the same speed for all irrespective of how fast they move relative to each other. These are very real circumstances that exist in our universe, and subsequently we can, shall, and do experience the implications of such circumstances much as Relativity says we should. However, our universe is composed of more than circumstances. Relativity is not talking about particles; Relativity does not consider what we’re actually made of (all the neutrinos, photons, ions, molecules, solar systems…). The extent of Relativity’s scope is circumstance; and yes, Relativity is an astute assessment of what happens in those circumstances, but it is by no means any type of authority on all macro circumstances. Relativity’s view is far too narrow to have the audacity to presume authority beyond its circumstances.

For instance, the notion that nothing can escape Schwarzschild radius after it’s been created, not even light because of escape velocity…  The problem with that is electromagnetism is an afterthought.    The theory considers only gravity; within the mathematics Schwarzschild Radius is formed out an idealized ball of gravitation.  It doesn’t work that way in the universe though.  The universe isn’t made of idealizations.  As explained in the TIME essay, particles are effectively light, in mutual association.  The particles of our universe bear both gravitational and electromagnetic traits.  Understanding the universe necessarily requires incorporating all known traits into our models.  It follows Schwarzschild radius is 10^36 times more a ball of electromagnetism than it is a ball of gravity. As soon as real particles are caught within Schwarzschild radius the particles lose cohesion and the radiative energy they’re comprised of is set free.  It’s going to produce gamma ray bursts [nova], not singularity*; robust understanding of physics as well as observation are both very clear about that.

*(“Singularity” may be taken to read whatever quantum information fluctuation interpretation is being preferred at this moment.  Planck length hasn’t permitted singularity to exist within black holes for a while now.  What’s coming out of that work all reads like adding epicycles to a failing theory to me, so I tend not to pay close attention to all the cutting edge developments anymore.)




Relativity is the most tested theory in the history of theories. It has passed every test.

If it says there's a black hole, go ahead and bet that there's a black hole.

And I'm pretty sure they've analyzed the orbits of the stars around our black hole, and a black hole is the only thing that can account for them.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26466864 - 02/03/20 01:57 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Errr doesn’t relativity stop working at the subatomic level? As per “established” science I mean...


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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: feldman114]
    #26466929 - 02/03/20 02:35 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr doesn’t relativity stop working at the subatomic level? As per “established” science I mean...




Yep. It doesn't claim to work at the subatomic level.


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26466942 - 02/03/20 02:39 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr doesn’t relativity stop working at the subatomic level? As per “established” science I mean...




Yep. It doesn't claim to work at the subatomic level.




Sure it did. Then, it was proven not to.

I’m not backing OP’s ideas, but your poast seemed super close-minded. Science changes all the time...


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26466986 - 02/03/20 03:09 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

pacmanbreed said:
Was glad youve made a post about the human fundametal trait that i found this post. I really admire who challenge such theories.




Thanks.  Wasn't really trying to challenge anything, was just trying to understand it...and that's the way it works out.  It's kinda cool, actually.  certainly novel.


Quote:

pacmanbreed said:although i havent fully Read it yet and need to digest it fully aswell its Not my expertise. i do find it intruiging based on the title they dont exist although observable if i am right? that they dont actually exist in our TIME but are remnants of TIME-SPACE based on the redshift?




They don't exist at all.  Not in any time.  They are mathematical constructs, that are themselves completely self-consistent and plausible, but they remain irreconcilable with the visible properties of the universe.  "space-time" gets downgraded a bit through this perspective. 


Quote:

pacmanbreed said:Having mentioned it, while im on deep search I also finds the Bigbang and expansion a universal start as innacurately taught in schools in that thread(harsh/roughly composed).




The Big Bang Never Happened.  My work makes that pretty clear.  As for deity, I feel as though it is purely a question of physics: is the universe constructed to include deity, or not?  ...and I've never seen anything in the properties of the universe that lends itself to deity.  -its not brought up, at all...properties of the universe make no room for it.    Soooo, I feel them to be mythology that have basically "fish storied" themselves to prominence, dominance. 



Quote:

SavoryGravy said:Relativity is the most tested theory in the history of theories. It has passed every test.

If it says there's a black hole, go ahead and bet that there's a black hole.

And I'm pretty sure they've analyzed the orbits of the stars around our black hole, and a black hole is the only thing that can account for them.




Sure, as stated in your quote, the universe behaves just as Relativity says...to a reasonable extent.  It's always right within its own context, but yes, relativity cant touch QM because its nature doesn't enable it...  its formulation is incompatible with QM.  This is because relativity is a geometry, and you cant map real particles to a geometry.  Everything in the text you quoted is mother nature talking, it's not up for discussion or debate.  That's a definitive refutation of where Relativity stands in model prevailing physics provides.  Black holes is getting kicked to curb...also mother nature talking; the physics is clear on that.


Edited by Rift Zone (02/03/20 03:15 PM)


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OfflineSavoryGravy
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: feldman114]
    #26467001 - 02/03/20 03:22 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Errr doesn’t relativity stop working at the subatomic level? As per “established” science I mean...




Yep. It doesn't claim to work at the subatomic level.




Sure it did. Then, it was proven not to.

I’m not backing OP’s ideas, but your poast seemed super close-minded. Science changes all the time...





It didn't. It has never failed an experiment. It has successfully predicted that time flows at different rates. And that an object shortens in the direction of travel. That gravity isn't a force, it's a ripple in the fabric of spacetime. That there is, in fact, spacetime.

Black holes are pretty straightforward and mundane compared to that.

And Einstein was a pioneer of quantum physics too, though he didn't believe it.

Not sure how my post was closed minded. Three true fact statements and a suggestion.


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: SavoryGravy]
    #26467025 - 02/03/20 03:38 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

SavoryGravy said:
It didn't. It has never failed an experiment. It has successfully predicted that time flows at different rates. And that an object shortens in the direction of travel. That gravity isn't a force, it's a ripple in the fabric of spacetime. That there is, in fact, spacetime.

Black holes are pretty straightforward and mundane compared to that.

And Einstein was a pioneer of quantum physics too, though he didn't believe it.

Not sure how my post was closed minded. Three true fact statements and a suggestion.





You may have understanding of modern theory, but evidently not of physics.  You clearly do not understand how any word on this thread applies to your knowledge of modern theory...  Soooo...what are you doing here?  fan-girling?  You know you're oblivious to what I mean here, so you're just gonna run with the home team, anyway huh?  -good luck with that!


Edited by Rift Zone (02/03/20 03:43 PM)


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26467038 - 02/03/20 03:45 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:

You may have understanding of modern theory, but evidently not of physics.  You clearly do not understand how any word on this thread applies to your knowledge of modern theory...  Soooo...what are you doing here?  fan-girling?  You know you're oblivious to what I mean here, so you're just gonna run with the home team, anyway huh?  -good luck with that!



:knowwhatnevermind:


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: chibiabos]
    #26467455 - 02/03/20 08:01 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
:knowwhatnevermind:



“Mother Nature” (the properties of the universe and the laws they operate by) is the sole authority in physics…  Theories are comprised of roughly 2 elements: observation, and human translation of that data…  The theory that is more comprehensive and aligns with observation better is the more accurate theory.period.  …and Nova is more comprehensive and aligns with observation better than everything it challenges.  Smile!  -you're on the new show called 'science, bitch'.


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26467526 - 02/03/20 08:49 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
:knowwhatnevermind:



“Mother Nature” (the properties of the universe and the laws they operate by) is the sole authority in physics…  Theories are comprised of roughly 2 elements: observation, and human translation of that data…  The theory that is more comprehensive and aligns with observation better is the more accurate theory.period.  …and Nova is more comprehensive and aligns with observation better than everything it challenges.  Smile!  -you're on the new show called 'science, bitch'.



You should probably lay off of the shrooms if you want to get through your undergrad stuff.  :shrug:


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: chibiabos]
    #26467562 - 02/03/20 09:08 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
You should probably lay off of the shrooms if you want to get through your undergrad stuff.  :shrug:




I'd watch your talk about "undergrad stuff" when NASA, JAXA, CERN, The ESA, National Academy of Science, and every other post doc / Nobel Laureate are the ones looking to get schooled here.  you're playing the "inept" game with the wrong mofo, I'll tear all y'all apart.


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26467657 - 02/03/20 10:05 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
You should probably lay off of the shrooms if you want to get through your undergrad stuff.  :shrug:




I'd watch your talk about "undergrad stuff" when NASA, JAXA, CERN, The ESA, National Academy of Science, and every other post doc / Nobel Laureate are the ones looking to get schooled here.  you're playing the "inept" game with the wrong mofo, I'll tear all y'all apart.



No you won't.  I'll bet that you won't even do geometry.


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Onlinepacmanbreed
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26467723 - 02/03/20 11:08 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
Quote:

pacmanbreed said:Having mentioned it, while im on deep search I also finds the Bigbang and expansion a universal start as innacurately taught in schools in that thread(harsh/roughly composed).




The Big Bang Never Happened.  My work makes that pretty clear.  As for deity, I feel as though it is purely a question of physics: is the universe constructed to include deity, or not?  ...and I've never seen anything in the properties of the universe that lends itself to deity.  -its not brought up, at all...properties of the universe make no room for it.    Soooo, I feel them to be mythology that have basically "fish storied" themselves to prominence, dominance.




I get where your coming

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
This of course demotes religion to merely a form of “spiritual path” -a collection of answers and considerations meant to fulfill the requirements spirituality places upon us




That ive mentioned:
Quote:

knowingly that religion/religare(greek) in actuality is relation, Us being rebind to the INNER and Outer aswell. considering that spirituality is indeed a human trait alone. I do find having a relation & binding along the path is of good-cause interms of spirituality in my part.




That being bound to NATURE(having a relation & close obersvation of it) and its law eg. QUANTUM DYNAMICS is of good-cause interms of spirituality/growth, much more than a portrayed diety of most major religous sectors of our time portrayed them to be.

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
The Big Bang Never Happened.




We have consensus here :thumbup: Same as i dont view cambrian period bein an explosion as they thought and taught it to be.


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26467735 - 02/03/20 11:26 PM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
No you won't.  I'll bet that you won't even do geometry.




yea, huh...  that's why you come at me like a toddler...  cuz you'd have no game at all challenging me as an academic. =)


Quote:

pacmanbreed said:

That ive mentioned:
Quote:

knowingly that religion/religare(greek) in actuality is relation, Us being rebind to the INNER and Outer aswell. considering that spirituality is indeed a human trait alone. I do find having a relation & binding along the path is of good-cause interms of spirituality in my part.




That being bound to NATURE(having a relation & close obersvation of it) and its law eg. QUANTUM DYNAMICS is of good-cause interms of spirituality/growth, much more than a portrayed diety of most major religous sectors of our time portrayed them to be.




You got a weird agenda I'll rip apart if you keep trying to associate my works with them.


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Onlinepacmanbreed
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26467839 - 02/04/20 02:19 AM (4 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
You got a weird agenda I'll rip apart if you keep trying to associate my works with them.




TLDR:

Good thread/post despite that Thoughts sory i dont have much to contribute and not my line of work but i did enjoy reading it and had a glimpse of it.. black holes = neutron star. I feel your on the right track bein an autodidact. :thumbup:


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OfflineRift Zone
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26468074 - 02/04/20 08:19 AM (4 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

pacmanbreed said:
Quote:

Rift Zone said:
You got a weird agenda I'll rip apart if you keep trying to associate my works with them.




TLDR:

Good thread/post despite that Thoughts sory i dont have much to contribute and not my line of work but i did enjoy reading it and had a glimpse of it.. black holes = neutron star. I feel your on the right track bein an autodidact. :thumbup:



Sorry to be rude like that.  Not all of our perceptions align perfectly, and I'm not the type to gloss over stuff like that.  Apparently autodidact is the right path on this one...not like academia is doing this one any justice.  Thanks for the kind sentiments.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Black Holes Do Not Exist! [Re: Rift Zone]
    #26471482 - 02/06/20 05:27 AM (4 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Rift Zone said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
You should probably lay off of the shrooms if you want to get through your undergrad stuff.  :shrug:




I'd watch your talk about "undergrad stuff" when NASA, JAXA, CERN, The ESA, National Academy of Science, and every other post doc / Nobel Laureate are the ones looking to get schooled here.  you're playing the "inept" game with the wrong mofo, I'll tear all y'all apart.



But you chose shroomery to post it because you wanted to broadcast it to people who might eat it up. If you posted this with your "peers" you would be the one "torn apart"


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