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InvisibleMadMuncher
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    #26464549 - 02/02/20 01:53 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

made a tea with 6 of the pins of these fuckers around 8 or 9 pm



definitely active. experiencing itching, hives on face and throat, scratchy voice

what do i do i dont want to go to hospital. i just took 2 benadryl. this could go badly has anyone experienced this i am not allergic to anything

ive never experienced this. last time i tried these i got a bad stomach ache but none of this.


Edited by MadMuncher (01/06/24 04:17 AM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26464563 - 02/02/20 02:19 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

alright well ill let you know how it goes tomorrow if you dont hear from me DONT EAT THE PRETTY GYMNS not worth it. 1 star review on tripadviser for sure. note to self: please dont fucking eat these ever again


--------------------


amanita phalloides prints for trade
$BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil   

Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII


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OfflineN0Tmushroom2THINK
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26464567 - 02/02/20 02:30 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'm praying for ya Mad, I hope everything goes okay but going to the hospital might not be a bad thing if things start to worsen, as they could probably see what caused the allergic reaction with some test. I know you don't wanna go, but if you do go just say you were picking edibles and ate a wrong species by accident and they won't know any better. Do you know if you are allergic to any fungi or anything like that or possibly may have come in contact with something that could've caused this reaction.


--------------------
With mushrooms on the mind, you don't have mushroom to think.:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:MUSH-LOVE:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:


Edited by N0Tmushroom2THINK (02/02/20 02:35 AM)


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Offlinebloodycarcass
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26464569 - 02/02/20 02:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
alright well ill let you know how it goes tomorrow if you dont hear from me DONT EAT THE PRETTY GYMNS not worth it. 1 star review on tripadviser for sure. note to self: please dont fucking eat these ever again




Some people are allergic to mushrooms. 
Ive had no problem with these. 
If it is an allergic reaction the benadryl should help.


--------------------
Back at it like a crack addict, with asthmatic lung disease


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26464572 - 02/02/20 02:38 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i really dont know man i am definitely tripping. it seems like it's getting worse i dont know. eaten these before this didnt happen. eaten cy's azzies pans cubes etc. many times never had a problem. im not gonna lie im pretty freaked out right now. never had a bad trip bit this might be a qualifier. i dont know whats the line to be like ok go hospital right now


--------------------


amanita phalloides prints for trade
$BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil   

Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26464578 - 02/02/20 02:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

On the bright side, you are likely just reacting to the protiens in those mushrooms and your physical symptoms are being amplified by the trip. The benadryl should help fairly quickly.  Drink some milk if you have some in the meantime, followed by a good amount of water (slowly, but purposefully).  Lots of people have problems with different mushroom species becasue of the body not recognizing certain protiens, which produce a histamine increase.  Just sucks, but you'll likely be fine.  Staying calm will help symptoms abate faster (or at least not increase due to a rapid increase in blood pressure).


--------------------


"First we build the tools, then they build us."

THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: N0Tmushroom2THINK]
    #26464580 - 02/02/20 02:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

N0Tmushroom2THINK said:
I'm praying for ya Mad, I hope everything goes okay but going to the hospital might not be a bad thing if things start to worsen, as they could probably see what caused the allergic reaction with some test. I know you don't wanna go, but if you do go just say you were picking edibles and ate a wrong species by accident and they won't know any better. Do you know if you are allergic to any fungi or anything like that or possibly may have come in contact with something that could've caused this reaction.




thank you bro i appreciate you. im gonna take another benadryl in a few and try to sleep my skin is burning




what the fuck are these things?????

BE WARE THE GYMNS


--------------------


amanita phalloides prints for trade
$BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil   

Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII


Edited by MadMuncher (01/17/22 02:14 AM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26464583 - 02/02/20 02:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

alaskappalachian said:
On the bright side, you are likely just reacting to the protiens in those mushrooms and your physical symptoms are being amplified by the trip. The benadryl should help fairly quickly.  Drink some milk if you have some in the meantime, followed by a good amount of water (slowly, but purposefully).  Lots of people have problems with different mushroom species becasue of the body not recognizing certain protiens, which produce a histamine increase.  Just sucks, but you'll likely be fine.  Staying calm will help symptoms abate faster (or at least not increase due to a rapid increase in blood pressure).





almost always calm it usually takes a lot to get me riled. ill be ok. i am tripping on these things man ive already walked with death. my wife is buried up there. thats where theyre gonna put me too. i miss it up there a lot i had to leave after fuck man i really miss my wife. nothings worthwhile anymore. its selfish but who gives a shit except theres people counting on me. dont ever be afraid of anything. ill tell you a secret the mushrooms told me:


they like people because they like dead things


Edited by MadMuncher (01/17/22 02:15 AM)


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26464585 - 02/02/20 03:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Alaska misses you too, brother.  Wishing you a speedy recovery from the allergy (I'm sure it will be- most people who go in for an allergic reaction to mushrooms to the ER get evaluated and sent home with an antihistamine...).  Best of luck.


--------------------


"First we build the tools, then they build us."

THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities


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Invisiblestevo

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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please *DELETED* [Re: alaskappalachian] * 1
    #26464654 - 02/02/20 05:08 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by stevo

Reason for deletion: .


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Offlinedark-goblin
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo] * 1
    #26464671 - 02/02/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Sir. If things haven't calmed down and seem to be worsening I would strongly suggest you pay a visit to the hospital.

If you're worried about medical costs then I've heard that it's possible to appeal a lot of medical fees; just try negotiating with your practice. Asking for reduced rates/paying in advance/paying in cash can also help reduce costs.

Best of luck to you.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26464705 - 02/02/20 06:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds to me like an allergic reaction. Reading about mushroom allergy symptoms they include rashes, hives and wheezing.
I think you should ride off the trip and wait it out to see if the symptoms persist or recede before eventually going to the hospital.

Best wishes from Norway. :heart:


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26464997 - 02/02/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I've consulted with a Registered Nurse on this. If you want to treat the signs and symptoms you're showing so far at home with an antihistamine (Benadryl), go for it. You can also use Hydrocortisone to help with the hives. It would also be good to drink a bunch of water (not other things) to help flush things through your system.

If you begin to experience difficulty breathing, you need to get to an emergency room immediately. If you've been taking Benadryl, you need to *NOT* drive yourself. Get a friend or neighbor to take you or call an ambulance.


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: ToxicMan] * 1
    #26465075 - 02/02/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

A life-threatening allergic (anaphylactic) reaction has a very fast onset and can't be reversed by oral antihistamines like benadryl. Like ToxicMan said, you MUST got to the ER if you are having breathing issues related to an allergic reaction.


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Moria841] * 1
    #26465104 - 02/02/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Did you make it OP?


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OfflineMycoBrainz
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Moria841] * 1
    #26465107 - 02/02/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Are you Alive brother?


--------------------
:stoned:


PFC x Creeper


Lets Get Stoned


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo] * 1
    #26465109 - 02/02/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

it's bee 8 hrs since the last post from him, hopefully he got some help.

Anaphylaxis is a deadly situation,  but if oral antihistamines are the only thing available, take it don't wait for an ambulance or something to get you to the hospital, the quicker you get it in you the better and they can still give injectable antihistamines and corticosteroids.

edit: he's still at the hospital if he went, hopefully, we'll hear from him soon.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 11:18 AM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26465152 - 02/02/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know, the likelihood of anaphylaxis is apparently low since he's not allergic to anything to begin with.

What sucks is that his experience of the reactions might be overblown given he's already tripping, and could
lead to a panic attack. In his situation I'd probably call a trusted friend who's sober and able to help.

His description of a burning skin sensation sounds familiar to me from some of my harder trips.

It went almost an hour from his first to his latest post in this thread, I'm inclined to believe that
if his physical condition was severe, he wouldn't have managed to write posts over such a long
period of time. I'm not a doctor though.

I hope he's fine and comes back on to tell us.


--------------------




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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26465171 - 02/02/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hope you're alright muncher. It's true terror when shit like that happens during a trip.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: breeg89] * 1
    #26465178 - 02/02/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Anglerfish, just because someone doesn't have history of an allergy doesn't mean it it isn't there, some allergies develop over years and some are immediately apparent. I have seen this firsthand, some people can have mild symptoms over years and not recognize it as an allergic response, but all the sudden it rears its head and then it's full blown anaphylaxis. This happens with bee stings occasionally, sometimes it takes several exposures to become life threatening. That is why it's recommended to carry an epi kit once an allergy is detected.


edit: in reference to the time frame you mentioned,  it's not usual for slow onset, it depends on his bodies reaction and how it starts producing histamines.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 12:21 PM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26465208 - 02/02/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Anglerfish, just because someone doesn't have history of an allergy doesn't mean it it isn't there, some allergies develop over years and some are immediately apparent. I have seen this firsthand, some people can have mild symptoms over years and not recognize it as an allergic response, but all the sudden it rears its head and then it's full blown anaphylaxis.




That makes sense. I'm not known to have any issues with allergy myself, but it happens from time to time I get itchy and
red when taking a shower. Maybe allergy, maybe not, I think. So to have an allergy without being aware is possibly common, I don't know.

Quote:


edit: in reference to the time frame you mentioned,  it's not usual for slow onset, it depends on his bodies reaction and how it starts producing histamines.




What I thought, but on the other hand an hour coming up on psilocybin is plenty of time for paranoia to grow on him.
Then again I don't really know what six of these mushrooms could do or how far they'd take him. To my understanding
they aren't very potent - please correct me if I'm wrong.


--------------------




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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26465239 - 02/02/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

you get red and itchy after showers  because you are removing the natural oils in the skin and removing dead tissues.

Gymnopilus is known to be weak but I think it would be a mistake to underestimate them, we both know how variable potency can be from one mushroom to another.

edit: punctuation and spelling corrections


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 12:59 PM)


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26465286 - 02/02/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i am good that was fucking crazy. thank you guys for caring i love you all please be careful with those things. they are way different than normal shrooms it reminded me a lot of muscaria effects+ psilocin.

i did not go to the hospital i stayed up as long as i could and passed out hard slept like a dead man. so weird. when i was falling asleep i kept forgetting to breathe that was kind of freaky. i was really wondering if i was gonna wake up. i took a few tokes and my whole respitory system seemed like it was gonna shut down. really strange sounding wheezing. i think my kidneys are hurting now.

please be careful with gymns and tell your friends the same! i was clueless and feel pretty dumb for not doing more research first :stoned2: the pins on those are very very potent.


--------------------


amanita phalloides prints for trade
$BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil   

Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII


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OfflineN0Tmushroom2THINK
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26465298 - 02/02/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I so glad you're alright man


--------------------
With mushrooms on the mind, you don't have mushroom to think.:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:MUSH-LOVE:mushroomgrow::mushroomgrow:


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26465328 - 02/02/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Welcome back to Earth, man! Good to hear you're all okay.:smile::thumbup:

What do you think - was it allergy or was it due to the effects of the mushrooms?

Can't get access to the full text but the following article may be of interest:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22572385


--------------------




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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: N0Tmushroom2THINK] * 1
    #26465335 - 02/02/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

N0Tmushroom2THINK said:
I so glad you're alright man



:whathesaid:

If, you really experienced itchy hives (raised red itchy patches) you are definitely allergic to Gymnopilus or something in them,  if you eat them again it could cause life threatening anaphylaxis and I am dead serious. If, this is the 1st time you have had them and they caused this type of reaction  it will be much much worse next time, seriously!!!

do not eat them again if you had hives.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #26465344 - 02/02/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Welcome back to Earth, man! Good to hear you're all okay.:smile::thumbup:

What do you think - was it allergy or was it due to the effects of the mushrooms?

Can't get access to the full text but the following article may be of interest:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22572385



this is referring to the build up of calcium in cells, this wouldn't be related to the symptoms reported by OP.

edit: if he would have experienced muscle cramps, palpitations or arrhythmia then I would say this could be related, but he is describing an allergic reaction.

If OP.has had Psilocybin or Psilocin in the past without incident then it is a different component of the mushroom he is reacting too.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 01:51 PM)


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OfflineHSapiensAmericanus
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: N0Tmushroom2THINK] * 1
    #26465347 - 02/02/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

After a reaction like that, plus the Benadryl, likely/hopefully sleeping it off.

I quickly perused NAMyco poisoning reports and didn’t see anything related to Gymnopilus causing any deadly reactions. It looked like those Gymns were growing from and old creosote log dock piling that was cut back. I wonder if it was a reaction to the coal tar or whatever kind of creosote/pitch they used to treat the log.

That being said, if one is hesitant to go to a hospital, and the reaction does not seem life-threatening, reach out to one of your local toxic mushroom ID volunteers (shroomery does pretty well for advice as well).

https://namyco.org/mushroom_poisoning_identifiers.php


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OfflineHSapiensAmericanus
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: HSapiensAmericanus]
    #26465350 - 02/02/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Oops. I was a little late on seeing the last few posts. Glad all was well.


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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: HSapiensAmericanus]
    #26465354 - 02/02/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HSapiensAmericanus said:
After a reaction like that, plus the Benadryl, likely/hopefully sleeping it off.

I quickly perused NAMyco poisoning reports and didn’t see anything related to Gymnopilus causing any deadly reactions. It looked like those Gymns were growing from and old creosote log dock piling that was cut back. I wonder if it was a reaction to the coal tar or whatever kind of creosote/pitch they used to treat the log.

That being said, if one is hesitant to go to a hospital, and the reaction does not seem life-threatening, reach out to one of your local toxic mushroom ID volunteers (shroomery does pretty well for advice as well).

https://namyco.org/mushroom_poisoning_identifiers.php



it looks like they are growing from an old Pine stump to me


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: HSapiensAmericanus]
    #26465388 - 02/02/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HSapiensAmericanus said:
After a reaction like that, plus the Benadryl, likely/hopefully sleeping it off.

I quickly perused NAMyco poisoning reports and didn’t see anything related to Gymnopilus causing any deadly reactions. It looked like those Gymns were growing from and old creosote log dock piling that was cut back. I wonder if it was a reaction to the coal tar or whatever kind of creosote/pitch they used to treat the log.

That being said, if one is hesitant to go to a hospital, and the reaction does not seem life-threatening, reach out to one of your local toxic mushroom ID volunteers (shroomery does pretty well for advice as well).

https://namyco.org/mushroom_poisoning_identifiers.php




Yeah, that's a good thought about the log. Based on the surrounding location, it looks like something that's been treated.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: breeg89] * 1
    #26465424 - 02/02/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

good to hear you're safe OP.

I'd be interested in knowing more about the ID; it's possible you found a similar-looking gymnopilus, psilocybe/psilocin present along with some additional compounds that didn't agree with you?

I was under the impression that mushroom fruit didnt build up toxins from the substrate due to lack of vascular system like plants. Is this off-the-mark?

I suppose the fruit could still harbor toxins after being sprayed or whatnot.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: dark-goblin] * 1
    #26465438 - 02/02/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I'd do a kidney flush. Most mushroom toxins are purified in the liver and kidneys. Freaking wild mushrooms for ya, like a box of chocolate.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26465453 - 02/02/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Welcome back to Earth, man! Good to hear you're all okay.:smile::thumbup:

What do you think - was it allergy or was it due to the effects of the mushrooms?

Can't get access to the full text but the following article may be of interest:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22572385



this is referring to the build up of calcium in cells, this wouldn't be related to the symptoms reported by OP.

edit: if he would have experienced muscle cramps, palpitations or arrhythmia then I would say this could be related, but he is describing an allergic reaction.

If OP.has had Psilocybin or Psilocin in the past without incident then it is a different component of the mushroom he is reacting too.




Thanks for clearing that up. I obviously made some hasty assumptions.

Other than that, I see now there are several of the inactive species of Gymnopilus that are said to cause allergic reactions.

Might this, then, be the case with some of the hallucinogenic ones too? As it stands, I can't see we've got a positive id on the
ones MadMuncher found - other than that they stain greenish blue and are psychoactive.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: dark-goblin] * 1
    #26465466 - 02/02/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

definitely allergic reaction. i don't think those were creosote i picked these along the river in the cascades. i did wonder when i was picking them but i am very careful to only forage in clean places. pretty pristine area but i know there used to be a dam there. kinda want to go out there right now that place calls to me for some reason maybe tomorrow.

i am pretty sure this kind is only growing on fir trees along that river, and another weird thing is i only find them in sunny spots where it seems too hot and dry for them to be there. i made tea from a bag with specimens of this species from a lot of different spots/logs up and down that river. they take over the log jams on the bends there are millions of them all along the banks

you guys all have given very solid advice here i cant thank you enough. really didnt know where else to go. i will definitely not eat these again. the last time i ate them i got a bad stomach ache and no trip from the mature caps. this experience was definitely the second warning seems like everything ive read about allergies getting worse with each exposure. no more gyms for me i guess they are so beautiful though. im still gonna pick them all haha

does anybody know what they are?


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 1
    #26465513 - 02/02/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

they look like something in Gymnopilus aeruginosus-luteofolius clade.

Glad to see you know not to eat ANY Gymnopilus anymore,  not even a nibble, ok!! future reactions can be swift and deadly, no joke!!! I have literally seen people near death within minutes of a reaction.


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Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 03:49 PM)


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151]
    #26465515 - 02/02/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

thats about as far as i got as well i really wonder how many species are out there i see them in clearcuts and roadside and parks and forests but every ecosystem seems to have different species in it


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26465523 - 02/02/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What about G. thiersii? Predominantly found in California but there are three observations from Oregon on MO as well.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26465533 - 02/02/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
What about G. thiersii? Predominantly found in California but there are three observations from Oregon on MO as well.



West coast  I think you are right!!!


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26465540 - 02/02/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

so fascinating. i didnt weigh the dose i almost always just eyeball it. those are very close to mine maybe same species. PNW? what general area are those from? they will be popping up everywhere before long i have been spreading the spores all over since last june. sent some spores to friends around the country for them to spore slurry creeks and rivers in spring as well. seems like the mycelium is everywhere because i see a lot of random fruits here and there in random places but they only do well right by the water
Quote:

Anglerfish said:
What about G. thiersii? Predominantly found in California but there are three observations from Oregon on MO as well.




maybe. these seem different somehow much larger than observations on MO i will get more pics this year theyll be out again in may or june


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26465543 - 02/02/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

you can never assume potency since it varies from mushroom to mushroom, literally.

edit: some may disagree, but in my experience with psychoactive mushrooms,  pins are always stronger and so are fruits stressed by cold weather or other conditions.


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Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 04:00 PM)


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please *DELETED* [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26465545 - 02/02/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Post deleted by stevo

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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo]
    #26465547 - 02/02/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

but did you experience the hives (big whelps) on your face or torso?


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Edited by Doc9151 (02/02/20 04:04 PM)


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please *DELETED* [Re: Doc9151]
    #26465598 - 02/02/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo]
    #26465613 - 02/02/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Madmuncher explicitly stated that he had hives, itching and scratchy throat,  they are symptoms of allergic reaction.

What you are describing is something else all together and is most likely psychosomatic, Madmuncher was on the verge of a life threatening complication.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151]
    #26465658 - 02/02/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Madmuncher explicitly stated that he had hives, itching and scratchy throat,  they are symptoms of allergic reaction.





If they weren't hallucinations, that is. I've had my skin literally look like snake skin on high doses. :lol:


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26465685 - 02/02/20 05:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Madmuncher explicitly stated that he had hives, itching and scratchy throat,  they are symptoms of allergic reaction.





If they weren't hallucinations, that is. I've had my skin literally look like snake skin on high doses. :lol:



I agree that could be a possibility, no doubt that someone could have a full blown psychoactive dose from a few Gymnopilus pins, even though the consensus is that they are weak, I've definitely underestimated some cubes a few times. You never know when they will be potent af.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please *DELETED* [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26465691 - 02/02/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo]
    #26465706 - 02/02/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I just look crazy when I look in the mirror while tripping, usually kind of sallow looking and wide eyed with a twinkle in my eyes, can be disturbing to a newbie.

I know people that have stopped tripping after seeing themselves in the mirror and thinking about how fuked up they look.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: stevo]
    #26465710 - 02/02/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

stevo said:
Im not even convinced its a hallucination, totally.




"Altered perception" might be a viable term? Psilocybin is not a joke, imho, whatever it actually is.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26465714 - 02/02/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Looking in the mirror takes me to very disturbing places. Glad you made it out muncher.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: breeg89]
    #26465736 - 02/02/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

altered perception is what I would call it.

breeg, that's me, it can get really dark for me and I seem to tap into a devilish like personality that scares me.

There was only one out hundreds of trips that has ever totally freaked me out and tapped into a side of me that I never knew existed.  Homicidal thoughts flooded my mind, there was a voice in my head I hadn't heard before and was urging me on.

When I confronted it, immediately I experienced sensations of my own impending death. To me it's the closest thing to ego death I can ever think of experiencing.

For years I would laugh at other people that have done stupid shit,  like running naked  in the streets or worse. The feelings and urges this voice brought forth gave me a new respect for hallucinogens, realized how easy it is to let something like that take control and wake up to a nightmare the next day not knowing exactly what happened.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151] * 1
    #26466050 - 02/02/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
they look like something in Gymnopilus aeruginosus-luteofolius clade.





:whathesaid: That's what I'd call them, can't tell the exact species.

Really weird that they basically have no scales. They look potent as all fuck. So glad you're okay man, I was really worried about you.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151]
    #26466177 - 02/03/20 01:32 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Homicidal thoughts flooded my mind, there was a voice in my head I hadn't heard before and was urging me on.




I've had them too. But it was like I was observing them in third person simultaneously as I had them. It was freaky but
I was able to discern them in context of my trippy mindset. I had in no way any urge to act on these thoughts, yet it
was pretty scary all the same. And they would disappear when I shifted my attention onto something else.

Not that I could have done anything harmful in such a state, I was peaking, nailed to my bed, unable to move.

But no, the mirror is not a good tool for the psychedelic experience. There is much sense in McKenna's "silent darkness".
And the Mexican shamans also insist on not taking mushrooms in daylight, saying you'll go crazy.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26466700 - 02/03/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Mushrooms give me what feels like mild allergies.  If I have contacts in my eyes become so irritated I have to take them out which is not fun on powerful trip.  More mucus than normal and other allergy like effects.


LSD does it to me as well so maybe its just tryptamines in general?


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26466724 - 02/03/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Homicidal thoughts flooded my mind, there was a voice in my head I hadn't heard before and was urging me on.




I've had them too. But it was like I was observing them in third person simultaneously as I had them. It was freaky but
I was able to discern them in context of my trippy mindset. I had in no way any urge to act on these thoughts, yet it
was pretty scary all the same. And they would disappear when I shifted my attention onto something else.

Not that I could have done anything harmful in such a state, I was peaking, nailed to my bed, unable to move.

But no, the mirror is not a good tool for the psychedelic experience. There is much sense in McKenna's "silent darkness".
And the Mexican shamans also insist on not taking mushrooms in daylight, saying you'll go crazy.




I believe there needs to be more work done with psychedelics and mental illness.  I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and hate pills. But only after using psilocybe mushrooms did I actually understand what was going on in my own head, and have never had any more problems with it. Maybe it depends on the type of schizophrenia/level of progression but I definitey believe they can help people with mental illnesses. 

Never heard of tripping during the day making you go crazy.  I love day tripping watchung the trees and grasses blowing in the wind, like watching them grow right in front of you.  Sky changing colors you cant see that during night, the energies are totally different from night and day tripping.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26466791 - 02/03/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
I believe there needs to be more work done with psychedelics and mental illness.  I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and hate pills. But only after using psilocybe mushrooms did I actually understand what was going on in my own head, and have never had any more problems with it. Maybe it depends on the type of schizophrenia/level of progression but I definitey believe they can help people with mental illnesses. 




This is a very interesting topic, every time psychedelics and mental illness - schizophrenia in particular - is mentioned, I think of this man:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Wain

Quote:


Never heard of tripping during the day making you go crazy.




No I don't seriously believe you go crazy from day tripping, it was a quote from one of R. Gordon Wasson's books or articles about Maria Sabina, where
this was the common thought regarding the mushrooms. Of course, they saw this as a wholly different phenomenon than the modern psychonauts do.

Quote:


I love day tripping watchung the trees and grasses blowing in the wind, like watching them grow right in front of you.  Sky changing colors you cant see that during night, the energies are totally different from night and day tripping.




Absolutely. But I find the medium doses to work best in this context. The heavy meltdowns are for me pointless outdoors, since
absolutely everything around me changes into a completely new scenery, like the common world is ripped away.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26466806 - 02/03/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Doc9151 said:
Madmuncher explicitly stated that he had hives, itching and scratchy throat,  they are symptoms of allergic reaction.





If they weren't hallucinations, that is. I've had my skin literally look like snake skin on high doses. :lol:




this was what i was assuming all of my symptoms were (hallucinations) and that definitely delayed me taking benadryl or reacting to them at all for a good hour or two. within 45 minutes of drinking that tea (on an empty stomach) i was having involuntary muscle movements, twitching and shaking a little, especially went i went outside and was talking to somebody but this happens when i am tripping sometimes so i didnt think anything of it. the weird breathing sensations occur during a normal heavy dose, but this was clearly different. it took me a few hours to convince myself something was wrong, even though the symptoms were bordering on severe. i finally looked in the mirror and my face and neck were fucked up hives everywhere. not hallucinations, i mean when i looked at my face i was definitely hallucinating but the hives were not an illusion. its difficult to describe now. i did my best during the experience because i knew it'd be hard to describe the next day and man we need to educate people about the allergies on those. that could have been really bad. i could have very easily take 2-3 times the dose i did. i cant imagine what would have happened if i had actually eaten the fruits.

as i was starting to come down the allergy symptoms grew worse, and i think the benadryl kept it bearable. im a little nervous to try eat psilocybes now. i really wonder. guess we'll find out soon haha i always wondered if i had a slight allergy to psilocin/cybin because i do get (usually very mild) symptoms that increase intensity with higher doses

Quote:

stevo said:
Whoa man, I just reread your experience in the original report, that I must have skimmed over.  Ive had the same experience I had.  This sounds very close to a 10g cube experience.  I mean like to the exact.  I ate without scale and reweighed the bag later determining this.  That breathing thing is all too familiar and frightening when its actually happening.

It went like this...

~2 hours later, nothing

Then I black out and fall asleep

Woke up out of a dream an hour or so which seemed like an eternity, with vague memories of it.  Hacking up like a quart of loogies every time I coughed.

Next 5 or 6 hours doing that annoying breath in breath out in manual chore mode.  Wasnt automated and scared me.  But not really trippy visual stuff just kind of disconnected.  No hives that I remember, just lots of phlegm and an restless anxiety of forgetting to breath.

Questions,

1. Were you tripping hard?  I have always got more of the other effects not the psilocybin from these, and 100g is like a microdose.

2. Do you think, too many spores?

3. Also, did you take other drugs or drink any alcohol?




1- yes. i have a hard time qualifying/quantifying my trips. i was really high, pupils blown, laughing, giggling talking to myself all night like a normal trip, mild hallucinations (fuzzy haze, irregular eye movements, mild object distortion). it seemed like a really good time for people who wont die from eating them.

2- no idea. all fruits used were pins with the veil still intact except 1 or 2

3- cannabis
Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
I believe there needs to be more work done with psychedelics and mental illness.  I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and hate pills. But only after using psilocybe mushrooms did I actually understand what was going on in my own head, and have never had any more problems with it. Maybe it depends on the type of schizophrenia/level of progression but I definitey believe they can help people with mental illnesses. 




This is a very interesting topic, every time psychedelics and mental illness - schizophrenia in particular - is mentioned, I think of this man:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Wain

Quote:


Never heard of tripping during the day making you go crazy.




No I don't seriously believe you go crazy from day tripping, it was a quote from one of R. Gordon Wasson's books or articles about Maria Sabina, where
this was the common thought regarding the mushrooms. Of course, they saw this as a wholly different phenomenon than the modern psychonauts do.

Quote:


I love day tripping watchung the trees and grasses blowing in the wind, like watching them grow right in front of you.  Sky changing colors you cant see that during night, the energies are totally different from night and day tripping.




Absolutely. But I find the medium doses to work best in this context. The heavy meltdowns are for me pointless outdoors, since
absolutely everything around me changes into a completely new scenery, like the common world is ripped away.





psilocin/psilocybin is good medicine. the first time i felt good feelings since my wife died, eating azures a year after she passed. its helped me a lot with learning how to accept it and figure out how to cope. still have to put up with endless bullshit of life daily, there is no escape, but they help make the load more manageable.

sit and talk to myself alllllll night. get to know me a little better each time

nighttime feels much much much much safer i can hide. i think the mushroom experience makes us primal in ways. i always feel like a cat


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26466984 - 02/03/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ive never heard of the Louis Wain guy, was an interesting read though.

More studies need to be done than with the pills, They definitely made things way worse. In my case at least. It did take several years of microdosing/hard trips from time to time. But everytime Id always feel better, and noticed time between episodes started getting longer apart and shorter durations.

But yeah I agree definitely no heavy doses if youre going to be walking around, unless someone with you is completely sober. The woods are always beautiful and you can feel their connections.
Being aware that your on them is always a good reminder.

I know doctors have that allergy test.  I know mushrooms are on there but dont know about psilocybe/psilocin or other alkaloid, tryptamines etc.  You may have to ask for a specfic type of chemical allergy test I have no idea.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26467527 - 02/03/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Damn yeah I hope the allergen was just something in the gyms and not psilocin itself. I found some other shit about gyms causing allergic reactions (G. juonius in this case):

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13289351/fpart/2/vc/1#13289351

And the wiki pages for some Gymnopilus species say they may cause allergic reactions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnopilus_flavidellus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnopilus_chrysopellus

Hopefully Psilocybe species will continue to be fine, but definitely a good idea to get an epipen if you do them again.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: breeg89] * 1
    #26467577 - 02/03/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Holy shit Munch!  I'm glad you're okay buddy!

I've been in the hospital with anaphylaxis before and it's god damn terrifying.  Now that you know you react to things it's not a bad idea to carry an epi-pen if you can get a hold of one.  I like to have one around just in case of anything, for me or other people.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher] * 2
    #26467834 - 02/04/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MadMuncher said:
ill tell you a secret the mushrooms told me:

they like people because they like dead things




Yeah, we certainly leave a trail for a variety of scavengers behind us.

It also reminds me of this picture I took several years ago, in a recently laid cemetary:



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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26468071 - 02/04/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

If that was new I'd be nominating you for pic of the month.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #26469118 - 02/04/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

There's something sort of haunting about that pic angler.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: breeg89]
    #26469154 - 02/04/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

breeg89 said:
There's something sort of haunting about that pic angler.





I think its beautiful, shows the life of death


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: bloodycarcass]
    #26469844 - 02/05/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bloodycarcass said:
Quote:

breeg89 said:
There's something sort of haunting about that pic angler.





I think its beautiful, shows the life of death




The fact is that there's a sheep field right next to it, which invariable yields quite a bit of liberty caps.
The part of the cemetary where I find them is a less than ten year old expansion of an already old graveyard.
There are very little or no libs found in the older parts, whereas the new one has produced quite an abundance
in the last six to seven years.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26470030 - 02/05/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

do you think that they are allowing the sheep to graze in the newest section and that's why you are finding liberty caps?


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151]
    #26470104 - 02/05/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
do you think that they are allowing the sheep to graze in the newest section and that's why you are finding liberty caps?




They definitely don't do that, the sheep are confined to their field by fencing.
Actually, there was a news report just days ago from that very same cemetery
where deer had entered in the early morning and eaten the flower wreaths
adorning a fresh grave and generally made a mess, which made people very
upset. Now sheep aren't deer but I don't think they'd stay away from those
flowers either.

I believe the mushrooms have grown there basically because the newly laid
lawns were full of the right nutrients, and the spores had a short way to travel.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26470126 - 02/05/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

Doc9151 said:
do you think that they are allowing the sheep to graze in the newest section and that's why you are finding liberty caps?




They definitely don't do that, the sheep are confined to their field by fencing.
Actually, there was a news report just days ago from that very same cemetery
where deer had entered in the early morning and eaten the flower wreaths
adorning a fresh grave and generally made a mess, which made people very
upset. Now sheep aren't deer but I don't think they'd stay away from those
flowers either.

I believe the mushrooms have grown their basically because the newly laid
lawns were full of the right nutrients, and the spores had a short way to travel.



makes sense, unfortunately,  I haven't had the luxury of hunting libs, but hopefully it will change soon and I will be able to do some liberty caps hunts when I go visit my daughter up North.


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Doc9151]
    #26470138 - 02/05/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

My shellfish allergy came out of the blue, had been eating it a few times a week and then one day suddenly I’m having a hard time breathing, itchy hives all over. Felt like a panic attack. Spent the night in the bathroom with the shower running trying to open up my airways. Later that weeks went to the doc and tested positive for shellfish and treenuts.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: D3_Myc]
    #26470142 - 02/05/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

D3monic said:
My shellfish allergy came out of the blue, had been eating it a few times a week and then one day suddenly I’m having a hard time breathing, itchy hives all over. Felt like a panic attack. Spent the night in the bathroom with the shower running trying to open up my airways. Later that weeks went to the doc and tested positive for shellfish and treenuts.



That's not very common,  but anytime we try something new. we never know how we will react and sometimes it takes several exposures. The faster symptoms appear the more sensitive you are and sensitivity can change after each exposure.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: D3_Myc]
    #26470152 - 02/05/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Damn that sucks i hope the OP is okay ive never tried gyms because they are hard for me to distinguish between the poisonous look alikes... ive heard that its not the first time your develop allergic reactions but the second time. @doc you dont think this could be a reaction because the mushroom is a wood lover? Or maybe a chance of the mushrooms pulling something out of the wood it is growing out of? Ive read you shouldnt eat mushrooms that grow on yelms and other trees that are poisonous.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Bilever]
    #26470351 - 02/05/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

never tried any before these either for same reasons. never confident enough or worth the risk until i saw these. plus almost always find galerina very near sometimes popping up right in between clusters that look nearly identical to the smaller fruits at first glance. everytime i saw them while picking i would throw 1 galerina in the bag to make sure i could pick out any lookalikes. training the eyes. they can be so hard to identify depending on what theyre growing on, the bigger the log the larger the fruits, the same species on wood debris only gets maybe 4 inches tall. ive seen all kinds of gymns all over the country but ive never seen any blueing that even compares to these. the smell and "feel" when your picking them is like caressing moist psilocybe. as soon as i see them it triggers the same alarm as psilocybe (you know that facial recogniztion thing that happens its like seeing your mother [yikes] would really love to see scans of my brain when im in my patches

really hoping its not something to do with woodlovers in general try some other species soon. gymns never again but thats ok i love giving stuff away. theres enough on that one river to keep a small community college high for a semester or two


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26470549 - 02/05/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I can't remember when or where, but I remember reading or hearing about this French chef that
had been chopping craploads of buttons over a long period of time and suddenly got an anaphylactic
shock, luckily he apparently came out okay, but  had to refrain from touching mushrooms ever again.

Now that sucks big time, if it's actually true.


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Re: Gymnopileus ID and allergic reaction Help Please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26470673 - 02/05/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Anytime we try something new, especially the 1st time,  we should only eat a small amount until we know that we are not going to have any reaction.  That was stressed alot when I went through Navy sere school.

Most people that don't have allergies don't even think about what they eat most of the time, but you never know what you may be allergic too or have othersymptoms. .


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


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