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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Addiction
    #26464379 - 02/01/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Currently day 5 of no drinking and withdrawal was pretty easy. Just 2 nights of really shitty sleep and waking up more than usual the next few nights.

I was pretty surprised how easy it was, considering I was downing 6-20 drinks per night. Craving now - mostly because I abruptly got the night off work tonight.. So I got nothing to do for the next 6-10 hours and no one to hang out with even. (my friends are sleeping or out of town). My wife and my baby are sleeping.

I think I had no problem with alcohol in this instance is because I have my wife and baby and a good job.

How about everyone else? Are you an addict? Why is addiction a thing?

Any good addiction stories?


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith]
    #26464435 - 02/01/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

do you still get to have weed and caffeine?


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weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: TedsDead]
    #26464447 - 02/01/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Me personally?

caffeine will never go away. Weed I don't personally use much.

I will hopefully resume social drinking again but I want and need to take a break to dry out.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith] * 2
    #26464521 - 02/02/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I found I could never go back to social drinking after I stopped about a year ago. Just can't stick the cork back in the bottle once it's out. The manimal just takes over.

I took up alcohol (which I did for 10 years), to get over methcathinonine (which I did for 6 years), which I used to get off molly (which I abused for 3 years), which really helped me get off weed (which I did for 6 years). All the while eating acid and mushies through most of of these years and pretty much any upper or psychedlic I could get my hands on. 

And now I'm relatively sober  :tongue:  It all stems from me suffering from depression, but now I know there's just no way to medicate out of that. Just gotta ride the wave and enjoy small pleasures. Last week I had some sort of stimulant that got me pretty trashy for a couple of days, had a bit of ketamine about a month ago, and I'm really dying to trip, just don't have the space to do it right now. That's what I really need. That'll slow me down for many months. Bring everything back into focus.

Not sure what I think of that when it's laid out like that, but it's quite.... sobering. I'm amazed I've had such an amazing life and been so many places and done so many fantastic things with all that working against me. The vast majority of my days are clear headed but the pull of substances calls me sometimes. I just ignore it, deny the impulses as the lies they are. I'm super happy to be out of daily addiction cycles and abuse patterns. I'd be fucked without drugs though, I run low and become empty and alien without them, but sometimes they make things hard.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisibleHobbyist
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner]
    #26464541 - 02/02/20 01:33 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, so much REAL in this thread! My hat's off to you guys.  Congratz on taking your life back you guys!


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Everything i say is completely hypothetical...



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Offlinewatermelon mon
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith] * 3
    #26464545 - 02/02/20 01:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:

I will hopefully resume social drinking again but I want and need to take a break to dry out.




Pretty much everybody told me , it works out for a bit.

Than you go back to what you were or worse.

I've seen it in myself and others.

No drinking means no drinking.

:satansmoking: he is in every drop :jesus:

:yes:

:no:

:yes:


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    :dazedandconfused:


Edited by watermelon mon (02/02/20 01:42 AM)


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner]
    #26464646 - 02/02/20 04:52 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Your cycle of replacing drugs is crazy. Have you had a loving and stable home life in any of these years? Are we talking everyday daily use for these drugs? Also, when did your first addiction start?

My drinking often started when I was ready for bed. It would be like my sleeping pill in a way. So, I think maybe I might be able to regain my social drinking if 1. I never drink with the intent of going to sleep. 2. I stick with beer rather than whiskey. 3. Limit myself to 3 days a week. I have got to try one time and then I will give it up if I need to. Though I will be the first to admit quitting was on my list, but what made me do it was the thought of listening to myself say "I'm not an addict, I'm just someone who drinks everyday".


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: watermelon mon]
    #26464686 - 02/02/20 06:10 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

:ingodshands: hopefully not, but I got to try once.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith] * 3
    #26464766 - 02/02/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I started with drugs when I was 14, I'm 42 now. So it's been quite a while. Many of my places in life have been loving and stable, just like my home now is. I've had success financially and am doing pretty good all things considered. But no, not every day over all those years, but some years much much more than others... there's been quite a few dark ones in there. There's been some absolutely stellar and magical ones too.

Being an addict isn't an illness or an unrecoverable position, it's not even something to be ashamed of. The whole NA and AA belief that addiction and alcoholism cannot be recovered from idea is misguided too. Complete recovery is totally possible. In the 10 years I drank I had a year I didn't drink and plenty of 3+ month breaks. Plenty of periods I only drank on weekends, plenty of periods I moderated, some dark years where it effected me negatively. The problem was, the reason I kept starting again, I didn't want to give up drinking. I just wanted to avoid the negative consequences. When it finally ended, when it was truly over, I didn't want to drink anymore... so I stopped. But not until I reached that point did the battle end. I still don't want it. I don't crave it, I don't count days, I don't even think of it unless it comes up in conversation with someone else. It's truly over. 

I had to learn that cravings are a lie that lead to more suffering, not less. I guess I figured that and its intricacies out late, but now I know. Some poor souls die without figuring that out and either drink/drug themselves to death or live "sober" in a constant battle with that lie.

I think of psychedelics still pretty often at the moment. I've been pretty far down the rabbit hole and some things just can't be unseen. Some part of me will always need that, the need to revisit and experience that momentary clarity, face my stuff with all the self illusion torn away, experience light and sound with extra-perception. All of that stuff. I don't think that's truly an addiction though, once that thirst is quenched it stays that way for a good while. Then things will build, I get low, I get anxious, I lose motivation, get caught up in all of life's bullshit... then when I get back in that place I wonder why I made myself wait for so long to be there, everything becomes so clear. But then I'm hesitant to visit again for a long while.

These aren't things I really talked about much, if ever, so posting it on an open forum like this is a bit weird. It's good to get it out though.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner]
    #26464782 - 02/02/20 07:50 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I don't understand why people get hooked on alcohol. If I had to guess it'd be because that was their first substance of abuse and it is culturally sanctioned.

When times get tough OP, try to remember that the powers that be want you under the influence and not reaching your full potential.


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Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26464796 - 02/02/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I would definitely agree that the AA mentality is not for everyone.. Though I do believe that sort of black/white mentality can help many not convince themselves that it is okay to go back. Therefore, I don't totally object with the whole "you are always an addict" mentality. Definitely not true for a lot though.

It is weird you say that you are not an addict and that you don't want to drink but then also say there are times of cravings that you have to ignore.

Glad you have the opportunity to share  :heart:

Sounds like you could use a trip - what is holding you up?
Me too, I am working on making some pharmahuasca for use soon.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: Shiithead]
    #26464801 - 02/02/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

The powers that be are not too relevant to whether or not I like alcohol..
It's a great drug. Especially when I cannot sleep.

The powers that be do matter in the drug testing that could happen at my job, however... Though there are ways around that if I thought any drug was worth the effort. So far not really.


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Onlinegopher
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Re: Addiction [Re: Shiithead]
    #26464807 - 02/02/20 08:03 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I used to drink too much alcohol, then when I started taking kratom the urges went away to drink, I got a bottle of booze for christmas and the first 4 drinks were extremely hard to get down, but I admit after those, it went down pretty easy, I drank half the 26er on christmas, and half a couple days later, and havnt drank since

I got a $50 and a $25 giftcard for the beer store for chirstmas as well, I traded my mom the $50 beer store card, for a $50 shoppers drug mart giftcard, and I havnt spent the $25 one yet, I wouldnt be surprised if I dont spend it till the weather is nice enough to drink on the beach or something

I save money too, alcohol is taxed a crazy amount in Ontario, so spending $150 every month and a half on kratom is pretty cheap compared, I could easily down a $13 micky every day, or a $14 6-pack of tall boys


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For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith]
    #26464819 - 02/02/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

LOL


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #26464850 - 02/02/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:

Being an addict isn't an illness or an unrecoverable position, it's not even something to be ashamed of. The whole NA and AA belief that addiction and alcoholism cannot be recovered from idea is misguided too. Complete recovery is totally possible.




Which calls into question the whole concept of "addiction". What does it mean to say "I used to be an addict"? Doesn't that simply mean I once had a relationship with intoxicants? The news and constant ads from the recovery industry never say, "Opioid abuse is on the increase" and nobody says "In the past I abused alcohol." Instead the mysterious term "addiction" is used - a lifetime disease you will never recover from . . . even though many millions of people have done so over the course of human history.       

Notice the OP chose to title the thread "Addiction" instead of, "Day 5 of no drinking - withdrawal was easy." How can a person be "out of control" when they clearly can make a choice to not drink? The experience of craving (anything) is not a disease, but largely an activity we choose to engage in - rooted in a historical relationship with the experience. The popular idea if you routinely crave something you are a powerless "addict" is incredibly harmful and crippling and cultivates shame.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Addiction [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26464873 - 02/02/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

While I did not make this extraordinarily clear, the post and title were more meant as a general conversation on addiction. Obviously I did not make it clear enough, but my thoughts are I was and am not an addict.

I don't know if I believe the concept is that harmful though. Much like with anything else, the bar is set at the lowest strength person.

Tell a strong person they are a lifetime addict - they realize they are not and say "that is a stupid concept"

Tell a weak person they are not a lifetime addict and they fall into that same addiction several times because they believe they have become stronger than their addiction. (yes weak/strong are crude and inaccurate words, just what I could think of shorthand)

What do you think? Do you really believe telling people they are lifetime addicts harms some people? How?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith] * 1
    #26464909 - 02/02/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

You chose to talk about "addiction" instead of your choices regarding drinking behavior. Why? I'm being a bit of an ass for a reason. Instead of talking about behavior, we now talk about this mysterious condition of powerlessness. The harmful repercussions are enormous. 

Teaching anyone they are powerless over their behavior is harmful. Powerlessness is always Step 1 in adopting the addict self-image. Why would you tell someone who is considering changing their ways that "relapse is normal"? Nobody "relapsed" last night. It's another crazy notion few people challenge.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith] * 1
    #26465124 - 02/02/20 11:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What makes addiction hard to treat is that everyone has their own complex reasons for getting addicted and getting high in general, and equally complex physiological, neurological, and psychological reactions to long term abuse.

Evolution has led to getting high feeling better than most of what life has to offer. It can be a long road to build a life that you value more than getting high, or realize the cons are outweighing the pros and act on it

As someone who's experienced plenty of addictions first hand and worked in the field in a few different capacities, honestly none of it is right or wrong. Every philosophy or program will work for some people and fail for most others. The best treatments are client-centered and individualized to an extent which insurance companies don't want to reimburse for, so most people who recover do it mostly solo. That doesn't for a minute discredit therapeutic approaches, SMART, AA etc... for the people they've helped, they're literally life savers.

For me these days I just like the occasional bender when I have the free time, mostly booze but often other drugs too. I'm typically able to cut it off quickly, but if everything else is going well sometimes I ride the wave a little too long. With time the frequency, amounts, and durations have been decreasing. I never want to be 100% sober, I value the ability to occassionally look at things from an altered perspective every now and then, but substances have become something that need extensive control and restriction for me to keep using. Some need to be hidden away by a friend/loved one when not in use, mostly just for the brief period after a few consecutive days of use when I'm good at convincing myself that one last time wouldn't hurt.


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Offlinetoday mylove
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Re: Addiction [Re: feevers]
    #26465143 - 02/02/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

People have told me I have an addictive personality... Im 32 now and I've used substances heavily at times, and others not at all. In the times when things have gotten heavy I've always managed to pull back and restore balance. So I don't know if that's the difference between someone who has it under control or not. But I've managed to remain healthy this whole time and progress in my life in a lot of ways. I think If I had kept heavy use up and just rode that into the ground I wouldn't be nearly close to where I am now. Maybe some might call it functional addiction or whatever. To me, I'm just me :shrug:


Edited by today mylove (02/02/20 11:44 AM)


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Offlinewatermelon mon
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Re: Addiction [Re: metalfaith]
    #26465180 - 02/02/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
:ingodshands: hopefully not, but I got to try once.




I hope that works for you :heart:


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    :dazedandconfused:


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Addiction [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26465255 - 02/02/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
I found I could never go back to social drinking after I stopped about a year ago. Just can't stick the cork back in the bottle once it's out. The manimal just takes over.

I took up alcohol (which I did for 10 years), to get over methcathinonine (which I did for 6 years), which I used to get off molly (which I abused for 3 years), which really helped me get off weed (which I did for 6 years). All the while eating acid and mushies through most of of these years and pretty much any upper or psychedlic I could get my hands on. 

And now I'm relatively sober  :tongue:  It all stems from me suffering from depression, but now I know there's just no way to medicate out of that. Just gotta ride the wave and enjoy small pleasures. Last week I had some sort of stimulant that got me pretty trashy for a couple of days, had a bit of ketamine about a month ago, and I'm really dying to trip, just don't have the space to do it right now. That's what I really need. That'll slow me down for many months. Bring everything back into focus.

Not sure what I think of that when it's laid out like that, but it's quite.... sobering. I'm amazed I've had such an amazing life and been so many places and done so many fantastic things with all that working against me. The vast majority of my days are clear headed but the pull of substances calls me sometimes. I just ignore it, deny the impulses as the lies they are. I'm super happy to be out of daily addiction cycles and abuse patterns. I'd be fucked without drugs though, I run low and become empty and alien without them, but sometimes they make things hard.




Really digging all of your posts in this thread. The bolded portion of this one really hit me. Riding the wave & taking pleasure in the small things is huge, and something I need to remember. Cause even when I get sucked down by those waves, there still are some things to take pleasure in. And I often don’t see that.
:fistbump:

A lot of real talk in this thread in general. I appreciate everyone sharing.  :thumbup:


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Addiction [Re: Dark_Star] * 1
    #26465405 - 02/02/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have been clean of fentanyl for the last two years and was essentially doing lines until I was approaching dangerous concentrations of fent to “get right.” For the 6 years before that.

It boils down to everything northerner already said.  Also having a goal that is long term that you genuinely aspire to is key ime.


I have had a handful of relapses but the before mentioned is what makes it worth stopping instead of continuing the run


Edited by theRealrollforever (02/02/20 02:44 PM)


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OfflineTaliesenW
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Re: Addiction [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26465417 - 02/02/20 02:25 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

addiction is something I don't know a lot of, but I have experience with K, it's just ruthless in my opinion..


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Addiction [Re: TaliesenW] * 1
    #26465975 - 02/02/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
I would definitely agree that the AA mentality is not for everyone.. Though I do believe that sort of black/white mentality can help many not convince themselves that it is okay to go back. Therefore, I don't totally object with the whole "you are always an addict" mentality. Definitely not true for a lot though.

It is weird you say that you are not an addict and that you don't want to drink but then also say there are times of cravings that you have to ignore.

Glad you have the opportunity to share  :heart:

Sounds like you could use a trip - what is holding you up?
Me too, I am working on making some pharmahuasca for use soon.




I guess whatever works for people, if they really want to get sober and AA works that's great. AA is heralded as the epitome of recovery and wellness associations for alcoholics, but I do not believe that is true. Most doctors and alcoholics alike have never even heard of "rational recovery" and when some 12 step members come near these recovery groups they tend to attack them with a fervour that is akin to religious zealotry. AA has been around for so long and encourages lifetime membership, that is why it is so well known. Not because of it's efficacy. There are many other groups out there helping people get back on their feet from alcohol. Giving them the tools to pass it over. They just aren't as well known and certainly aren't as sensational as the tireless lifetime treatment of alcoholism diseased victims. :rolleyes:

Just because I'm not craving drink anymore doesn't mean I don't want to get trashy sometimes. I guess I'm not that easily cured being a substance user/abuser, rather than a true alcoholic. The list of drugs I'll do is becoming shorter as I age, and the frequency I'm willing to do them is becoming less as well. I understand now how people just simply grow out of drug use. It's perhaps a natural progression, compounded by having more to lose and becoming more risk adverse.

I live with other people and I need space to trip. I can't be worried about how other people feel or what they think when I'm like that. The timing just has to be so. The stars will align soon enough.

The patterns you are talking about with your alcohol use I have also experienced. Patterns are a root indicator of addiction. Breaking those patterns may seem easy at first, but when you hit 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months and 9 months, when you encounter the specific triggers that make you drink in patterns, that's when the rubber really hits the road. That's when you find out just how in control you really are compared to how much you think you are. It's important not to confuse addiction with physical dependence. Not the same thing. I'm not saying you are addicted to alcohol in any way, I have no idea, but problem drinking that involves drinking alone and deal making is an indicator. Addiction has different stages as well, most people never hit that last fuck out stage and pull right before then. Being able to be honest with yourself and see the writing on the wall can really help stop the progression.

Enjoy your pharma man.  :awesome:.  Have you down it before?




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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


Edited by Northerner (02/03/20 03:18 PM)


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