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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Inoculated with entire syringe
    #26462475 - 01/31/20 04:56 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Hello,

Long time reader, first time poster.

After lots of reading (you'll question how much reading, but I did do a lot 😬) I ordered some spores, a couple grain bags and some substrate. Doing monotub, but haven't made it there yet.

I've seen lots of confliction information on the amount of cc to use in a grain bag. 2 cc seems to be derived from the pf Tek, but I've seen plenty of people saying up to 5 cc for a 3lb bag. So I decided more is better and decided to do the 5cc as I have a 3lb grain spawn bag. During inoculation I decided I probably wouldn't use a half syringe (as I have others in the fridge and only got 5 needles with my 5 syringes so I, spur-of-the-moment, decided to use the whole syringe.

I don't usually pull split second decisions like that and I'm a very procedural person, so it didn't sit well and everything I'm reading regarding using the whole syringe is that I probably screwed with the moisture content ratio and opened up the possibility of bacterial contamination from the spore solution.

Getting to the point, my question is what are the chances that this will pull through?

My sterilization was pretty damn thorough. I felt like the bag was on the lower end of hydrated to begin with, but I'm a newbie and don't have that experience to draw from. I've also read the mycelium can push out moisture as it colonizes so maybe that will happen and the moisture will continue to grow to be too much?

I have another bag I can get going if needed but really want to hear if anyone had experienced things working out, or if it's a guaranteed failure and I just haven't seen the signs as of yet.

Currently at 7 days, the bottom of the bag is showing growth (nothing on the sides yet) and there's no sign of any color other than white. It looks healthy to me, but I've seen pictures on here that look healthy and the more experienced folks see infections. I can post a picture if that's needed but more interested in hearing if this is a guaranteed failure or if there's a chance.

Lastly, what should I be looking for? Obviously colors like red, green, yellow, brown. But what about signs of to much moisture? There's no humidity in the bag as of right now. Anything else I should have my eye out for?

Thanks for your time!

https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-005/051465962-IMG_20200131_163816.jpg



Edited by ToldenGeacher (01/31/20 05:29 PM)


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OfflineDonaldReagan
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Registered: 01/30/20
Posts: 8
Last seen: 4 years, 10 days
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26462551 - 01/31/20 05:38 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

I'm pretty new at this hobby, so take that for what it's worth. But one thing I do have experience with is failure. I really dont like bags. Others may, but one reason is the sheer volume. The other, especially with vendor supplies bags, is freshness and moisture content. Who knows how old and dried out they really are?

That being said, 3 lbs is a lot of grain. I have had mycelium stall or get overrun by contaminate just because it didn't fully colonize a 2 lb bag knocked up with 5cc's.

But I have had successful runs injecting 10 cc's into 3 3/4 filled pint jars! Which has to be less than 4 lbs right?

Anyway, the way I understand it, if theres no water pooling in the bottom of your bag and you have it expanded and standing up properly so that your filter patch offers proper fresh air exchange, leave them babies be and you'll be good. The more spores, the better your chances with such a large bag of grain if you ask me.

Water being held by/absorbed by grain isn't a problem, standing or pooling water is. So watch out for that.

I'd say if you're seeing growth, you're good. If it stalls, mix it up. If you have issues with contaminate, you'll definitely know then.

Hopefully some experts can tell you more. I'm just telling you what makes sense to me.

Good luck!


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OfflineDnDRnD
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Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: DonaldReagan]
    #26462573 - 01/31/20 05:52 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

DonaldReagan said:
The more spores, the better your chances with such a large bag of grain if you ask me.





Spores to grain isnt recommended because spore syringes are inherently dirty and contaminates tend to take over. So more spores would actually be worse because it would give a higher chance of introducing contaminates.

You should really get into agar, check out pastywhytes no pour agar tek for first starting out with agar :thumbup:

Using a whole syringe may have messed up the water content but its semi easy to tell, do you have wet/kinda slime looking grains or obvious water droplets/pools?

There is a chance you may get fruits still, id say mabye 25/75 split


--------------------
Bods Easy AF Oat Prep Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24126032

Pastywhytes No Pour Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

Shaperdreamings Shoebox Assembly Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

Down with the bourgeoisie and up with the proletariat


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: DonaldReagan]
    #26462589 - 01/31/20 06:02 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks a lot for jumping in, that's very encouraging!

I know the general consensus on here is the bags are bad but I already bought them and an going to use them. Probably try my own stuff next go around.

Appreciate the positive vibes this direction!


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OfflineToldenGeacher
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26462594 - 01/31/20 06:08 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

There's no obvious pools of liquid and I really spread out the spores when I injected. The grains might be described as "slimy", but that's really a could go either way description. And I would also comment that they don't look any "slimy-er" than before the injection. My hope is that the grain bag was dehydrated enough that I evened things out... At least concerning water content. That doesn't do anything for introducing excess contaminates via spore solution.

Sorry the pictures aren't better I couldn't get the glare to work with my camera focus!


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OfflineSockadin
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Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26462666 - 01/31/20 06:47 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Yeah the pictures are to blurry to give you good insight into the health of you spawn. But we need more information. Are you using an incubator? How long have they been growing? Do you think it is stalled?


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: Sockadin]
    #26462676 - 01/31/20 06:56 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I can try taking better pictures, but do you think handling the bag to much is a bad idea?

Not using an incubator assuming we have the same definition of an incubator. It's in a closet with minimal air flow and being kept between 75 and 81. Initially had it set to 70-81 but it would fall below 74 and never go low enough to kick the heat on and I wanted the change in temp as I've read a lot that it's beneficial.

I don't think it's stalled out anything, I guess I don't know 100% what to expect but that amount of growth in 7 days didn't seem slow or fast as far as I can gather. I can continue to update this as well.

If you guys want more pictures I can take em, just give me your advice on if moving the bag twice in one day for pictures is a bad idea. I've done a decent job of suppressing my urge to look everyday and just let it go it's thing haha


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26463750 - 02/01/20 02:02 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quick update....

Definitely not stalled, there was a bunch more growth overnight!

I know that doesn't mean it'll turn out in the end, but hey gotta take the positives wherever you can get em, right?!


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26463761 - 02/01/20 02:08 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I kinda want you to shake the fuck out of the bag, but I would hate to give you bad advise.


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OfflineDnDRnD
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Registered: 10/08/18
Posts: 2,906
Loc: Washington Flag
Last seen: 8 months, 10 days
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26463774 - 02/01/20 02:17 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ToldenGeacher said:
There's no obvious pools of liquid and I really spread out the spores when I injected. The grains might be described as "slimy", but that's really a could go either way description. And I would also comment that they don't look any "slimy-er" than before the injection. My hope is that the grain bag was dehydrated enough that I evened things out... At least concerning water content. That doesn't do anything for introducing excess contaminates via spore solution.

Sorry the pictures aren't better I couldn't get the glare to work with my camera focus!




Slimy was a bad description for me to use but glad you understood it :rofl:

As long as they don't look wetter/"slimy-er" then its probably okay water content wise :thumbup:

Handling bags is okay as long as your gentle and err on the side of caution, sometimes bags can be kinda flimsy and rip/tear easily, healthy mycelium can recover from being damaged usually in about 24-72 hours (and that's from a thorough shaking)

Bags should be shaken once it's roughly 25%-30% colonized then it's given a good thorough mixing (gently still of course) to mix the colonized grains with the uncolonized grains for quicker colonization

Be wary of TO fast of growth, if a jar/bag completely colonizes from a spore syringe in say 4 days for example then that has a high likelihood of being contaminate mycelium and not the mycelium we intend


--------------------
Bods Easy AF Oat Prep Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24126032

Pastywhytes No Pour Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976

Shaperdreamings Shoebox Assembly Tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

Down with the bourgeoisie and up with the proletariat


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Registered: 06/09/19
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26463780 - 02/01/20 02:21 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

That’s a shit ton of growth for 7 days no matter how many spores.

You either have an extremely diverse culture in the bag or something is riding along with it, but it’s most likely good mycelium. There’s still thousands of grain to colonize, you’ll find out in the coming weeks.


--------------------
If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will.
In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face.
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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26463889 - 02/01/20 03:40 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I've read grain bags can take a long time, I also read a lot that by day 14ish you should have enough (20-25%) colonization to break the bag up. So I thought this felt on track for that? Obviously this is my first time so I'm not doubting your experience. I've really tried to take environment into account so I was hoping I was just going good haha. So stupid question here but at what point will it be clear that it's the wrong mycelium? Does it all look the same and the difference is just behavioral? I get a good feeling looking at what's going on, only have pictures from here to compare but when I look at it my instincts think "healthy". So hopefully that's the right attitude haha

Thanks for the response!


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: Sockadin]
    #26463898 - 02/01/20 03:45 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
I kinda want you to shake the fuck out of the bag, but I would hate to give you bad advise.




So is that bad advice then? Haha I was going to wait a bit longer. Also saw from someone on here, might be RR, but if it wasn't don't consider it quote... That waiting until 70% is best and only if it's necessary at that. I was planning on mixing at the 20-25%, guess I'm just curious thoughts on that? Seems most people suggest 20%.


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: DnDRnD]
    #26463910 - 02/01/20 03:51 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

DnDRnD,

Thank you for this advice on the handling and mixing! In your experience or knowledge bank, do the sides of grain bags usually get humid? Mine is not, and there is a path from the grain to the filter patch. Only curious because I've definitely seen plenty in research that have condensation on the sides. Does it have to do with the stage?

Also thanks for the pastywhytes link! I'll definitely be looking more into it as it seems to be what many considers the best way and seems like this is the way to get going. Much appreciated!


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26463940 - 02/01/20 04:05 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I think it’ll be ok, that’s a lot of grain. If it was a pint you’d be in trouble.

Too late now but I would’ve said it might be a good idea to shake/mix the bag up right when it happened to spread the water around, but it looks like it worked out.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26464142 - 02/01/20 06:26 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

ToldenGeacher said:
I can try taking better pictures, but do you think handling the bag to much is a bad idea?



well its bad to handle it when taking photos! I see this all the time. The problem is you might think you are holding it steady but when your other hand goes to press the button on your camera/phone the hand holding stuff tends to move a tiny bit and you get a blurry shot.

Sit the thing down and take several photos and pic the best after.


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: blackout]
    #26464282 - 02/01/20 07:51 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

ToldenGeacher said:
I can try taking better pictures, but do you think handling the bag to much is a bad idea?



well its bad to handle it when taking photos! I see this all the time. The problem is you might think you are holding it steady but when your other hand goes to press the button on your camera/phone the hand holding stuff tends to move a tiny bit and you get a blurry shot.

Sit the thing down and take several photos and pic the best after.





No that's 100% what happened. At first glance they looked good but I noticed they were blurry after I already closed everything up and didn't want to disturb it again. Lesson learned haha the flash bouncing off the shiny bag didn't do any favors either.

I'll get better pictures up in the next day or so!


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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Registered: 01/31/20
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Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: A.k.a]
    #26464285 - 02/01/20 07:53 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
I think it’ll be ok, that’s a lot of grain. If it was a pint you’d be in trouble.

Too late now but I would’ve said it might be a good idea to shake/mix the bag up right when it happened to spread the water around, but it looks like it worked out.




That would have been a good idea! Thanks for the positive words, and advice for the future, fingers crossed!


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OfflineMr.Wizard
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: ToldenGeacher]
    #26464434 - 02/01/20 10:49 PM (4 years, 15 days ago)

I read in the 'All RR notes' that you mix up grain once, at 20-40%. It can take a couple days to bounce back, and you don't want to move it around again, or you'll restart that timer. Then wait for full colonization.

I also say start agar ASAP, its fun!



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OfflineToldenGeacher
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Re: Inoculated with entire syringe [Re: Mr.Wizard]
    #26476684 - 02/09/20 09:50 AM (4 years, 8 days ago)

Hey all!

Hope everyone's having a good weekend.

Here's an update... We are at 2 weeks and 2 days.

How is the bag looking? Thanks for taking a look!



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