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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: tedoro]
    #26461078 - 01/30/20 09:29 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

I'm also thinking about the hours after the cow patty drops. I wonder if there is a term for a pseudo sterilization where a sole occupier of a substrate is killed (by a temp drop) and leaves the cow patty somewhat sterile...

My god, please someone recommend a book for crimmney sakes. I am spewing nonsense.


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Offlinevc77
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: spiritlands]
    #26461131 - 01/30/20 10:05 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

spiritlands said:There may be spores present outside but they aren't competing until they get introduced to a humid stagnant nutritious environment.




:whathesaid:

No need to overthink this one. The natural microbiome is locked into patterns of efficiency through the evolutionary process. It takes epochs for these patterns to form. This is why β€œinvasive species” of any kind are considered a threat to the pre-existing biology. Growing mushrooms in plastic totes in your spare bedroom is an entirely different concept, even if the end result is mushrooms growing.


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: vc77]
    #26461163 - 01/30/20 10:28 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

I can't with you guys right now. Lmao.
Teodoro you want me to find you some literature. What specifically are you interested in the cow waste or the digestive system that passes the waste? I'm not shitting you I'll find you some good literature on either. Lmao
Not literally. At this point I'm just here out of boredom.


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OfflineParafaragaramus
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: gizmo1]
    #26461184 - 01/30/20 10:48 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

It seems people want to mimic nature in their grows but I don't think I have ever seen a pinset from wild cubes that match a homegrown pinset. Granted I've never actually seen a cube in the wild so I could just be very ignorant.
From what I understand home cultivation is limiting everything the mycelium has to compete with in a limited environment to get the best results. In the wild there's a lot more competition so only in the right conditions will you find them thriving but maybe not to the extent that is achieved through home cultivation.
That's just the thoughts that I have. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: Parafaragaramus]
    #26461253 - 01/30/20 11:35 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

yes exactly, we don't mimic nature, that bitch ain't got shit on me


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: cronicr]
    #26461255 - 01/30/20 11:37 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
yes exactly, we don't mimic nature, that bitch ain't got shit on me



Careful what you say Cron you might get hit by a hurricane or tornado or some shit.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: gizmo1]
    #26461256 - 01/30/20 11:38 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

nope I don't get them here :lol:


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Invisiblegizmo1
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: cronicr]
    #26461264 - 01/30/20 11:45 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
nope I don't get them here :lol:



Lmao. Well I guess you're good then.
Tornados scare the shit out of me.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: gizmo1]
    #26461277 - 01/30/20 11:53 PM (4 years, 17 days ago)

The way we do it is better than a cows stomach. You’ve never seen a multiple oz flush from a cow shit paddy. Also the relationship between cattle/equine digestive systems has been evolving since cows and horses have existed.

Let it go. Use more spawn, get bigger tubs.


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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26461766 - 01/31/20 08:41 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

These are all good points. Perhaps its that I'm fascinated that the cattle/equine relationship can pull off a flush without a Presto. Pretty sure I couldn't.

So Gizmo1... I guess its that... the relationship between the cows gut and the spores. Thats what I'm fascinated with and want to read more.


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: tedoro]
    #26461886 - 01/31/20 10:20 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Ive been thinking about this lately, and have not found any actual literature explaining the process in the wild either. I do find it an interesting topic.


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OnlineBrian Jones
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: iwh678]
    #26462015 - 01/31/20 11:58 AM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

iwh678 said:
In nature there are complex symbiotic relationships between bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that we don't understand yet. Along with very specific growth conditions for some species when growing in nature.

It also is still a game of chance.




Yes. to change the subject slightly, this is why indoor weed plants often get infested with spider mites or white flies. This almost never happen outdoors because the pests are controlled by their natural enemies.

Growing mushrooms we are trying to create an ideal environment for cubes or whatever, but it's also a good environment for bacteria and mold if the shroom mycelium doesn't dominate the substrate. Again there are no natural enemies for the undesirable organisms indoors.


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Offlinespiritlands
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26462056 - 01/31/20 12:23 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)




What we should be doing is making our own compost and selecting what microbe cultures we want in our substrate. I haven't made a real attempt at making compost but the books I have seem like it pasteurizes itself. That would save having to sterilize substrate and it would be introducing symbiotic microfauna to help defend the substrate.

Seems like that would be more like nature than the sterile cult we're used to. That might be outdated info though, some of what's in the books is from the 90's.



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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: spiritlands]
    #26462084 - 01/31/20 12:36 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

There  are folks that are really promoting Black Kow... but thats just expanding the spawn. Its the spawn itself that seems like the craziest frontier.

Imagine if one could time the cube spore thick coating to be, say 48 hours... and one was to put it in a beer mash two days before it when out in the alley hopper, and cooled to 70f, killing all the yeast. then boom. (I doubt any of this would work, but I think exactly zero cube growers don't get excited when they see spent grains outside a brewery.)


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Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos
Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC


Edited by tedoro (01/31/20 12:39 PM)


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Offlinespiritlands
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: tedoro]
    #26462107 - 01/31/20 12:57 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)


↓These gallons colonized in 4 days.↓
Spawn is easy but it's only half the battle. Get your spawn prep right and you don't need to worry about cow digestion to get colonization times like that.

Slurryinahurry tek

From what I understand composting is like predigesting the nutes so that our myc has an advantage over contams. I think this means the sub can be more nutritious and contam resistant. Instead of mush relying on grains for nutes like in a coir sub I would think it would produce better bc compost is nutrient rich. Idk though that's just my assumption.


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Germinating old spores progress page
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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: spiritlands]
    #26462151 - 01/31/20 01:17 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Humans pull off flushes without a PC all the time. Its called PF tek.


I feel like I’m just repeating shit it’s already been sent this thread the reason why it works in nature is the cows injest the spores with grass then the spores germinate inside the Patty and there’s very little competition in addition to a large amount of fresh air and variable conditions essentially a pile of shit in the middle of a field in the right environment is perfect conditions for cubes and not very good conditions for anything else except for maybe some bacteria that the cubes don’t mind sharing space with.

The digestive process mimics our pasteurization process only it uses strong acids and anaerobic conditions. same idea as fermenting wood chips for wood lovers


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26462209 - 01/31/20 01:52 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

iwh678 said:
In nature there are complex symbiotic relationships between bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that we don't understand yet. Along with very specific growth conditions for some species when growing in nature.

It also is still a game of chance.




Yes. to change the subject slightly, this is why indoor weed plants often get infested with spider mites or white flies. This almost never happen outdoors because the pests are controlled by their natural enemies.

Growing mushrooms we are trying to create an ideal environment for cubes or whatever, but it's also a good environment for bacteria and mold if the shroom mycelium doesn't dominate the substrate. Again there are no natural enemies for the undesirable organisms indoors.




Yeah that's exactly what I was trying to get at, but you put it in better words.

Everyone is too hung up on the pressure cooker and other unnatural processes. The thing is you bedroom is nothing like nature. There are different organisms,O2 and CO2 levels, humidity, sunlight, and maybe most importantly no seasons. If you pit cubes and trichoderma head to head in a a sterile environment the trich always wins. But in nature, there is also different organisms competing with the trich. This is true for every organism and it forms a complex web of interconnected niches that each organism thrives in.

Its like saying you put a lion and a gazelle in the same room and the lion ate the gazelle, so you don't see how gazelles can exist in nature. Artificial environments =/= natural environments.

The thing is no one person understand it either. It takes groups of experts in very narrow fields to come up with an idea of what is going on and even then they don't always agree.


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Invisibletramalot
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: tedoro]
    #26462223 - 01/31/20 02:00 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

All that methane gas must not feed the bugs we run into in our 20% oxygen atmosphere...

Also...


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Offlineiwh678
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: tramalot]
    #26462230 - 01/31/20 02:04 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

tramalot said:
All that methane gas must not feed the bugs we run into in our 20% oxygen atmosphere...

Also...




Are you saying that you don't think you will see bugs on shit?


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Offlinetedoro
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Re: Mimicking a cows stomach and growing better... [Re: iwh678]
    #26462256 - 01/31/20 02:32 PM (4 years, 16 days ago)

I mean, yeah, a turd in a field is a dream home for a few things, flies included.


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